4306 vs. VSX84TXSI vs. Rx-V1600

[masbirdies]

Just upgraded my speaker system and thinking about a new a/v receiver.

Currently have a Yamaha 5560. It sounds good with the new speakers (Klipsch RF 82, RC 52, RS42, Martin Logan Abyss Sub) but...only has 75 watts. I'm looking for more power.

I can get the Denon and the Pioneer Elite for a little less than $900.00. I can get the Yamaha for $400.00

While I know the Yammy is not in the same league feature wise, it is a big upgrade from my current unit and has SOME of the upgrades I'm looking for - more power (120w), audio set up, more crossover choices, a few more features. And, it's less that half of the Denon or Pioneer.

I would pull the trigger on the Denon but...I've read where HDMI has a lot of problems on this unit as well as the network interface. Since the Denon and Pioneer are a few features away of what I really want, I figured I could get the Yamaha and live with it a year or two and then get the Denon (or like) with the features I want at a reduced price .
For some reason, I just have a weird feeling about Pioneer stuff. don't know why as I remember when their first Super Tuner car radios came out and loved their sound.

The bells and whistles on the Denon and Pioneer still seem to be lacking for a truly "into the future system" (no WiFi, No HD radio, issues with HDMI, still use Faroudia video upscaling, no Dolby or DTS HD, crummy remotes, etc....)

I currently don't need all the HDMI stuff but....a BR or HD dvd player is on the list for a shot term future purchase.

Is the 4306 really a bad unit from Denon. The Pioneer looks pretty tempting but does not have the network interface, although I hear Denon has issues with theirs (non pppoe capable).

I would appreciate comments and opinions!

UPDATE>I guess I am not running pppoe after all for network so I guess I can cross that off the list.

 

[jcPanny]

Receiver options

Masbirdies,
If the Yamaha has all the features you need asside from networking, then go for it. You could use the extra $500 to get a 2-channel or HT amp if you want a better power upgrade. A mid-fi receiver wont deliver 120 Watts all channels driven, but an amp like the Emotiva LPA-1 will. I am using my Yamaha HTR-5860 with this amp.

Also, if you are interested in network features, check out the Squezzebox 3 or apple TV for use with any receiver. I have read a lot of complaints about the network feature on recent Yamaha and Denon receivers.

 

[GlocksRock]

I have the RX-V1600 and I absolutely love it... the only thing is that it's HDMI is 1.1 and won't pass 1080p, so if that won't be an issue for your, I would consider it. It's THX Select 2 certified and has a pretty good amp section, so that coupled with your highly efficient Klipsch speakers, you should have no problems with volume.

 

[Thunder18]

Out of curiousity is there any reason you're not considering the Onkyo TX-SR805? You should be able to get it for the same price you can get the Denon and the Pioneer and it has all the latest up to date features. Not to mention it's also THX UltraII certified and should be able to drive any speaker syou throw at it.

 

[Seth=L]

Out of curiousity is there any reason you're not considering the Onkyo TX-SR805? You should be able to get it for the same price you can get the Denon and the Pioneer and it has all the latest up to date features. Not to mention it's also THX UltraII certified and should be able to drive any speaker syou throw at it.

Some people just don't like Onkyo. I love how most people reason not liking them too, "Onkyo is to bright and lacks bass, and they seem cheesy because of the name". Fine, spend more and get less.

 

[solomr2]

I currently have the Denon 4306 in my home (temporary loaner) and I like the sound quality from it quite a bit. It delivers a solid full sound. It has decent features too, including 3 zones and a pretty fair lineup of connectivity options. However, it is only equipped with HDMI 1.1, and doesn't support 1080p or the new Dolby and DTS formats.

This past weekend I auditioned the Pioneer VSX92-TXI and the Denon AVR3808CI head to head. I listened to both units on their pure (direct) unprocessed setting, through a set of Viennas, no sub. The sound was very noticably different. On the Pioneer, the mids and highs were very bright and the lows were noticably absent - I mean there was no bass! On the Denon, the highs were a little bit muted, but the sound was much fuller. My wife was with me, and she even noted the difference and commented that the Pioneer sounded like crap.

For source material we used a variety of discs and DVDs, including instrumentals and vocals, and we also watched the nightcrawler Whitehouse scene from XMen. None of them produced a different result, the Pioneer was just lacking down low. Adding a sub helped it quite a bit, but it was still noticable even with the sub.

If you're limited to a choice between the two receivers and can't consider others, I would steer you towards the Denon. If you have options, I would look at newer models of Onkyo in your price range, they will have support for the newer formats, or raise your budget a little and consider the newer Denons.

EDIT:

I also wanted to add that Denon has released a wireless iPod dock for their receivers, which also enables you to connect to your wireless home network. Since network connectivity is on your list of desired features, I think you should seriously consider this. Also, so you mentioned a BR or HD player is in your near-term future, I would strongly advise you go to one of the newer receivers that supports 1080p. If you shop around on Froogle, you can find the Denon 3808 significantly cheaper than their $1600 MSRP (I see it for $1100).

 

[masbirdies]

Nothing against Onkyo, in fact, I have a small Onkyo in one of our bedrooms. I was bargain shopping and none were available in the comparable price ranges or they would have been considered.

These receivers are available to me at less that 1/2 price. So, picking up the 4306 for under $900.00 is a steal to me.

The 4306 is passing 1080p and can handle the Blue Ray and HD DVD formats with the right player.

I went and listened to the receivers. The Yamaha was really decent for 398.00. The Pioneer was ruled out for the same reasons stated above. I pulled the trigger on the Denon. Thanks for all the comments here.

 

[solomr2]

They're half price for a reason... they are outdated models. The 4306 is a good receiver, but it is not passing 1080p. And it won't take a raw DTS Master Audio or Dolby True HD audio signal from a BD or HD Dvd player. This may not be a big deal at this time since there is limited material to make use of these feature, but since you expressed you would be getting a BD player in the near future, you may regret not having these features, or not.

 

[Seth=L]

They're half price for a reason... they are outdated models. The 4306 is a good receiver, but it is not passing 1080p. And it won't take a raw DTS Master Audio or Dolby True HD audio signal from a BD or HD Dvd player. This may not be a big deal at this time since there is limited material to make use of these feature, but since you expressed you would be getting a BD player in the near future, you may regret not having these features, or not.

The TX-SR805 can be had for under $1000. It does have the latest and greatest in audio processing. The 4306 can take 7.1 LPCM from a decoded HD audio track from within the HD player, so depending on how you look at things the on board HD audio processing on the receiver could be a moot point.

 

[solomr2]

The TX-SR805 can be had for under $1000. It does have the latest and greatest in audio processing.

Circuit City currently has it for $899, and there are 10% off coupons available on the internet, so you can have TX-SR805 for about $810 right now. I think you might even be able to do better than that if you are willing to buy from a less omnipresent source on the internet.

 

[Seth=L]

Circuit City currently has it for $899, and there are 10% off coupons available on the internet, so you can have TX-SR805 for about $810 right now. I think you might even be able to do better than that if you are willing to buy from a less omnipresent source on the internet.

I think we may have a winner.

 

[masbirdies]

Bought the 3803!

Don't know why I never looked at that receiver. Once I did, it was all over.

 

[Thaedium]

Just curious, but if you played both the Denon and Pioneer in Pure Direct, I don't really understand how you could have two completely different sounds from the same set of speakers and no other changes. How was this audition performed? Were both recievers calibrated on the EQ. If the Denon had been calibrated, it might have been compensating for any dropouts in the low range as a result of room accoustics. If the Pioneer hadn't had the same opportunity, you would definently hear a difference.

Just curious anyways, please shed some more light to appease the curious!

 

[solomr2]

Just curious, but if you played both the Denon and Pioneer in Pure Direct, I don't really understand how you could have two completely different sounds from the same set of speakers and no other changes. How was this audition performed? Were both recievers calibrated on the EQ. If the Denon had been calibrated, it might have been compensating for any dropouts in the low range as a result of room accoustics. If the Pioneer hadn't had the same opportunity, you would definently hear a difference.

Just curious anyways, please shed some more light to appease the curious!

Well, the test was about as scientific as you could reasonably get in a commercial Audio shop. The sales rep operating the switches claims this setup was calibrated, but it's only his word since I didn't check it myself. This was their standard demo room, and they sell both brands of products, as well as others, so I don't see why the rep would try to do a dishonest test, especially since the price points are basically the same (I was really shopping for the VSX94, but they didn't have one in the demo room. The VSX94 and 3808 are the same price).

The testing was done back-to-back, using same source material, same player, same speakers. We only used front L & R speakers for the testing, no center, no sub, no surrounds. I verified both receivers were set to their pure/direct (unprocessed) setting, and no funky business was going on with the cutover frequency, or loudness and so on. It actually took me some time to verify everything because I was not as familiar with the Pioneer UI as I am with the Denon UI. I also verified there was no Sub, or other speakers being switched into the test.

I think it was a reasonably fair test, and it is about as good as you will likely get at an Audio shop, but not what I would call a laboratory level of precision. I'm satisfied with what I got out of it.

 

[solomr2]

Well, the test was about as scientific as you could reasonably get in a commercial Audio shop. The sales rep operating the switches claims this setup was calibrated, but it's only his word since I didn't check it myself. This was their standard demo room, and they sell both brands of products, as well as others, so I don't see why the rep would try to do a dishonest test, especially since the price points are basically the same (I was really shopping for the VSX94, but they didn't have one in the demo room. The VSX94 and 3808 are the same price).

The testing was done back-to-back, using same source material, same player, same speakers. We only used front L & R speakers for the testing, no center, no sub, no surrounds. I verified both receivers were set to their pure/direct (unprocessed) setting, and no funky business was going on with the cutover frequency, or loudness and so on. It actually took me some time to verify everything because I was not as familiar with the Pioneer UI as I am with the Denon UI. I also verified there was no Sub, or other speakers being switched into the test.

I think it was a reasonably fair test, and it is about as good as you will likely get at an Audio shop, but not what I would call a laboratory level of precision. I'm satisfied with what I got out of it.

I also want to add that the difference in sound is really a matter of personal preference. I think some people may prefer the brighter and perceptively clearer sound of the Pioneer over the fuller but slightly muddy sound of the Denon. In my opinion, neither receiver was as precise as I would prefer. For example; The Pioneer had exceptional clarity, better separation and better precision in the high tones, but it had a weak bass. This gives a brighter but clearer perception. The denon, OTOH, had better base but not quite as clear and precise in the highs. This gives the perception that the denon has a fuller sound.

If you just walked into a sound room and listened to either receiver by itself you would not necessarily notice the differences so much, it would be less obvious.

The difference is emphasized when you hear both systems back to back and switch back and forth between them. At that point its a matter of personal preference which sound is more pleasing to your ears.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, I would definitely pick the Onkyo 805 over the above mentioned receivers. I mean the Denon, Pioneer, & Yamaha are all great, but the SR805 sounds just as good and has all the new features.