I made a huge mistake. I listened to some Wilson Audio speakers...

[Warpdrv]

I believe what your looking for is a cabinet that is acoustically inert, or dead... No vibrations, no flexing that will add coloration to the sound produced.

Thanks WmAx.... always love links to education towards my hobby.....
Before I start my journey into the realm of DIY Speakers, it starts out with Subwoofers... Im sure you have all seen what I have planned, and now that I got almost everything together to get started, and my other pre-winter projects out of the way... Im ready to go.. Just need to order my wood..

 

[GTHill]

I'm just as much of a newbie as possible, but if a person is trying to achieve no vibration or flexing, wood seems like a good choice, but not the best.

How about epoxies, or even metal? 1/2" thick metal plate seems like it would fit the bill nicely.

Gene

 

[WmAx]

I'm just as much of a newbie as possible, but if a person is trying to achieve no vibration or flexing, wood seems like a good choice, but not the best.

How about epoxies, or even metal? 1/2" thick metal plate seems like it would fit the bill nicely.

Gene

Actually, it's not so easy to reduce resonances to an insignificant level. 1/2" metal plate would work, if you used an enormous level of bracing internally on every axis, and then applied thick layer of Dynamat type material internally. However, the end product would be insanely heavy. Steel, for example, has a density of approximately 500lbs/ft^3, as compared to the standard speaker building material, MDF, which is about 45lb/ft^3. As a reference, a very small 5" midbass 2 way bookshelf speaker made from 3/4 MDF with some bracing might weigh 15 lbs. The same small bookshelf speaker cabinet made from steel would weigh about 165-170 lbs. Brute force can work, but it's not often a good solution due to practical implications. Now, if you intelligently engineer the system, you can end up with much lower weight and still reduce resonances to an insubstantial amplitude. As an example, for a 3 way, you could build the midrange enclosure as a modular unit that mounts on the woofer section with a decouple suspension. This allows you to use a method to reduce resonances in the midrange enclosure(which is comparably small), then prevent vibration from this module into the woofer module. The woofer module can then be fabricated with a highly stiff, high resonance frequency panel construction and extensive bracing that forces the resonance frequency of the woofer cabinet above the woofer bandwidth, making it effectively inert. For example, you could use HDF with vertical steel C channel, then use oak bracing matrix internally every 3" or so, to push the resonant frequency near 1khz, where as the woofer may only operate up to 200-400Hz, effectively producing an inert woofer module. The midrange/tweeter module could use for example, a couple of layers of HDF and 1/4" steel plate, and combined with a center damping layer constrained between two layers at some point, then using a densely spaced matrix bracing internally. You could mount the midrange driver itself on a decoupling suspension to further reduce vibration to the cabinet to which it is installed.

-Chris

 

[majorloser]

Maybe he has large sheets of titanium sitting around the house?

 

[GTHill]

Maybe he has large sheets of titanium sitting around the house?

You don't?

Thanks for the information. Like everything, there is much more to it than meets the eye. Dang, sorry, I watched Transformers twice today.

Gene

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is from TAC:

"But what is a “better” loudspeaker? The standard model, employing forward-firing dynamic drivers with a passive crossover in a closed box, has been refined to the point where further improvements are most unlikely. There are small ones and big ones, simple ones and elaborate ones, $600 ones and $45,000 ones, but if they are correctly designed (admittedly not always the case), the sound will always be of the same general quality—wide-range, smooth, effortless, but not quite real, with a slightly closed-down, boxy characteristic that says: loudspeaker, not live. There’s a ceiling in performance with this type of loudspeaker, maybe at three or four thousand dollars, above which you get very little, if anything, regardless of the hyperbolic claims and insane prices of some ultrahigh-end models. I have revived the old-time “monkey coffin” label, used by 1970s hi-fi salesmen, for this category of box speakers. There are dinky little monkey coffins and huge expensive monkey coffins, but they all sound like monkey coffins, more or less.

If you seek sound that more closely resembles live music, you have to look into loudspeaker designs that depart from the standard model. Two of these have been reviewed in this Web ’zine, the Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 5 and the Linkwitz Lab “Orion.” They are the two best speakers known to me at this juncture, but that doesn’t necessarily mean there aren’t others. I shall try to explore the newer electrostatics, full-range ribbons, powered dynamics with electronic crossovers, etc. Some are not so easy for a reviewer to obtain on loan, especially if he isn’t one of those thinly disguised handmaidens of the industry. We shall see. At any rate, I am through with monkey coffins."

http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=33&blogId=1

 

[fmw]

The best thing the OP could do is go back and listen again, comparing the speakers to some other good speakers in a level matched blind listening test. I don't know what the outcome would be but I know that listening to speakers that you know cost that much will have an inevitable effect on your brain and the listening test would be anything but reliable. But take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm the nut who sees no value at all in "auditioning" audio equipment in someone else's room.

I used to own the B&W 802. They were neutral and quite good. It would be hard to find much at any price that would perform any better. It would be fun to see what B&W could do with planar drivers. That might put me back in the market again. The secret to the performance of the higher end B&W speakers is the amazing system of bracing they apply to the enclosures. Their enclosures are simply dead as a door nail.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Wilson Audio = Overpriced for the measured performance you get. In the case of the ultra-expensive one you listened to, vastly so.

Agreed. Sure, they are great-sounding speakers, but no speakers are that great. I can't help but wonder how much the OP's perception of their sound was influenced by other factors, including looks, price, reputation, room treatments, etc.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agreed. Sure, they are great-sounding speakers, but no speakers are that great. I can't help but wonder how much the OP's perception of their sound was influenced by other factors, including looks, price, reputation, room treatments, etc.

Yeah, if I saw a $1,000,000 Kharma Grand Exquisite speaker system, I would swear up & down they sound better than anything in the world too.

 

[fmw]

Yeah, if I saw a $1,000,000 Kharma Grand Exquisite speaker system, I would swear up & down they sound better than anything in the world too.

.....without even hearing them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

.....without even hearing them.

Exactly.
No, I can hear them 100,000 miles away!

 

[GTHill]

I can't say for sure that I didn't fall prey to the "expensiveness" of the sound.

In regards to building my own speakers, I find it hard to believe that I can get $100,000 sound out of a $2500 pair of speakers. So, I ask again, what is the best driver that money can buy?

The Orion's can be built for $2500 and that seems really low. I know that money doesn't always mean quality. If not... anyone want to buy some Studio 100's?

Gene

 

[palmharbor]

try Best Buy

Those speakers are/were sold in the Magnolia room at the Best Buy stores...Yes, they do sound tinny.
Check our Martin Logan in Magnolia room

 

[WmAx]

So, I ask again, what is the best driver that money can buy?

You can blanket a statement as such. There is no such as "the best driver that money can buy" in a general sense. There are drivers more suited towards specific design objectives -- and no matter what you choose -- a balance of compromises will be the case.

-Chris

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I am hopelessly biased, because I did the crossover for a 3-way that I think can compete with the Wilsons for a lot less money (the Salk HT3). But just to show I have an open mind, you can't go wrong by finding someone to build you an Orion. This is a superbly engineered speaker, assuming you have a room large enough to allow proper placement. (Don't try to cut corners and spring for the cheaper Pluto--it has problems). The worst thing you can do is to spend super big bucks on expensive drivers like those offered by Skaaning thinking that they will produce first rate sound even without a state-of-the-art crossover. I would much rather listen to a system using drivers in the $20-$75 range and a superior crossover than one with $200-$800 drivers fed by a so-so crossover.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Few could match the woodworking skills of Jim Salk! I'm curious to see how he plans to top the HT3 with his new flagship model (when it comes out).

 

[WmAx]

Few could match the woodworking skills of Jim Salk! I'm curious to see how he plans to top the HT3 with his new flagship model (when it comes out).

There seems to be no question of the physical beauty of Salk cabinets. However, after seeing assembly pictures, they appear to be the average resonant cabinet system that seems very likely to distort the timbre. Like almost all speakers(regardless of price).

-Chris

 

[3db]

That'll learn ya!!

I was doing some work in Colorado and walked into an innocent looking home audio store. After listening to some "regular" speakers, they took me up to another room. It was the Wilson Audio demonstration room. Suffice it to say, I have compared everything else to them since.

I currently have Paradigm Studio 100's with the Servo 15 sub, plus a few smaller Paradigm's for rears. At this point, this is about all I can afford. I am happy with the system, but one of my worse personality traits is that if there is something else better out there, I want it. However, $250,000 in speakers is something I can't afford at this time.

What are the best speakers on the market that I can purchase to make my own Wilson Audio clones? I know I will probably never achieve their quality, but 80% of WA's quality is still probably much better than my Paradigms.

Ok, this post is too long already. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Gene

Until I know I have some play money and i don't have to scrimp and save, I stay the hell out of audio stores just because of what you experienced *L* What I don't know won't hurt me.

Good luck in your quest for audio nirvana

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Until I know I have some play money and i don't have to scrimp and save, I stay the hell out of audio stores just because of what you experienced *L* What I don't know won't hurt me.

Good luck in your quest for audio nirvana

I find that no matter how expensive of a system I listen to, or how good it sounds, my own system still sounds great to me when I get home. To me, that is "audio nirvana".

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Few could match the woodworking skills of Jim Salk! I'm curious to see how he plans to top the HT3 with his new flagship model (when it comes out).

Well, you know about as much about it as we do. Absolutely nothing has been decided yet. But I heard at least one design at the Iowa DIY last weekend that certainly gave me some ideas. Hopefully, whatever we come up with will not be just another speaker.