Are upconverting DVD players worth the money?

[jostenmeat]

Busy thread!

Lets see... I know a CI feller who went to a 5-hr Denon training course a year ago. They had BD and their 5910 side-by-side playing the 5th Element, and he said the upscaling player looked better. Grains of salt, obviously, hosted by Denon!

Re: Joe's comment... I think "information" gets tricky in terms of semantics. An upscaler adds ...er... (faked-out info?) by way of interpolation. It is "guessing/estimating" what the missing pixels might/should be.

ACTG makes a great point about "1080p". Its the same reason that many people think that HDMI= instant hd as well.

3db: while the hdmi allows better upscaling, it should be noted that component connection could upscale to 1080i. However, I believe its some HDCP bogus copyright tech that disallows this possibility from the dvd players.

 

[mtrycrafts]

plus the face that is an 4:3 aspect ratio TV keeps out of the market for now. I can't even use the progressive scan feature from my current DVD player

I asked only because the big box stores are really flogging them but my thinking is, if a regular DVD doesn't for eg, show the texture of animal fur, how can the upconverted picture show the texture?

If your TV cannot do progressive, why bother with up converting?
If your player doesn't have it and your TV is a fixed pixel type, then the TV will do the up converting. In the end, if your DVD has 480i info on it, it has a fixed resolution. No amount of up converting will change that other than having more pixels with the same info in it.
On the other hand, unless you have an old DVD player, I am not sure if there are new ones on the market that is not able to upconvert.

 

[solomr2]

There is definately some confusing stuff going on here.

I would think if you have a 1080p TV, and you have a 1080p BD/HD player, playing a 1080p source DVD, you will have a much more detailed image than say a 1080p TV, recieving a signal from a 1080p upconverting player, playing a 480p source disc.

A DVD (source material) encoded is 480p is not going to contain the same level of information as a BD/HD DVD encoded in 1080p, and no amount of upconverting is going to make the 480p DVD look as detailed and crisp as the 1080p DVD, provided the 1080p DVD is really a native 1080p transfer not a 480p image upconverted to 1080p.

I guess my point is the components are like a chain, limited by the weakest link. I don't think it makes much difference where the image is being converted, whether that is in the player or the TV if the limitation is still the 480p encoded source material. Might as well stick with a 480p player and save your money to buy 1080p BD/HD player and 1080p BD/HD dvds.

 

[j_garcia]

Maybe audioholics should do a shootout kind of thing getting together a bunch of upconverting DVD players and the winner go against a Blu-Ray and HD DVD. I think that may shed some light on this.

How about guys? Does it sound interesting enough to take a bite?

I tried this already with The Corpse Bride on BD (considered to be one of the best looking titles available). There is absolutely no comparison between the BD version and the SD DVD upscaled - the BD blows the DVD away. I also did the upscaling on both my PS3 and my Oppo and the BD is still considerably better. I can say that this is not the case with all movies, comparing the BD to DVD, it depends on the transfer and how good the source was - Fifth Element is another good example. I felt the remastered BD looked better than the Superbit, both of which I compared also, though in that case it isn't quite as wide a margin as it is with Corpse Bride. I haven't compared Bram Stoker's Dracula to the Superbit yet, but by memory alone, the BD looked superior to me (despite what some reviews have said).

So my take is, the difference between a good high def transfer and DVD is much more noticeable than the difference between upscaled DVD and DVD at 480p.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The take-home message to me is, SD DVD upscaling is not even worth $25.
1080p High Definition BD & HD DVD rules!
Don't waste your money on upscaling DVD. Save your money for HD DVD & BD.

 

[obscbyclouds]

While 1080p source (HD-DVD, BR) is always going to look better than 480i SD source (DVD), that doesn't mean that upscaling has no merit. The real reason to get an upscaler is to do just that, scale the picture to your TV's native resolution. All fixed panel display do this of course (since they only display the native resolution), but many don't do it particularly well. In this case an upscaler will look better, because the player's scaler is better than the display's.

Add this to the fact that many (Oppo, Dennon) players also play SACD/DVD-A, whereas lots of HD players don't, it doesn't make them entirely useless

 

[mtrycrafts]

So whats the justification for these beasts then? Is it just to pull more cash out of victims' pockets?

The justification is that hi def DVDs do contain a lot more real resolution because the master film is scanned at that resolution or better, so you see way smaller details on a good set and viewing distance.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Maybe audioholics should do a shootout kind of thing getting together a bunch of upconverting DVD players and the winner go against a Blu-Ray and HD DVD. I think that may shed some light on this.

How about guys? Does it sound interesting enough to take a bite?

Well, I have seen Serenity standard def DVD upsampled to 1080p and a HD DVD at 1080p, on a 114" screen and yes, there is a noticeable difference and I think one could see that during a movie even when one is distracted by the movie. Clothing texture just jumps at you, lace on clothing is remarkable

 

[Joe Schmoe]

The take-home message to me is, SD DVD upscaling is not even worth $25.
1080p High Definition BD & HD DVD rules!
Don't waste your money on upscaling DVD. Save your money for HD DVD & BD.

There are two major issues with BD & HDDVD. The first is that the marketing idiots are still staging a format war, and if you choose one there is a 50% chance that it will become obsolete (remember Beta?) The second is that, although the hardware is dropping in price, the software is prohibitive (especially to those of us with thousands of standard DVDs that would have to be replaced.)
Something else that is an issue for some of us is that the new formats are not necessarily compatable with older TVs.

 

[acacia987]

There are two major issues with BD & HDDVD. The first is that the marketing idiots are still staging a format war, and if you choose one there is a 50% chance that it will become obsolete (remember Beta?) The second is that, although the hardware is dropping in price, the software is prohibitive (especially to those of us with thousands of standard DVDs that would have to be replaced.)
Something else that is an issue for some of us is that the new formats are not necessarily compatable with older TVs.

HD-dvd players are getting so cheap there almost the same price as a good upscaling dvd player. But if hd-dvd does go down you still have a good upscaling dvd player. i cant wait to see some Christmas prices on next gen players.

 

[3db]

Joe..

There are two major issues with BD & HDDVD. The first is that the marketing idiots are still staging a format war, and if you choose one there is a 50% chance that it will become obsolete (remember Beta?) The second is that, although the hardware is dropping in price, the software is prohibitive (especially to those of us with thousands of standard DVDs that would have to be replaced.)
Something else that is an issue for some of us is that the new formats are not necessarily compatable with older TVs.

You raise an excellent point. Software replacement costs will easily cost me more than a HD-DVD or BR player. I spent a small fortune replacing all of my VHS with DVDs over the years. Alot of those were repalced by 2nd hand DVD sold at discount stores from 6.00 to 10.00 dollars apiece. At least I had the common sense to buy Wide Screen format even though my current tube is 4:3. The only insurance one has with respect to the format war is to purchase a player that will play both formats if thats possible.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You raise an excellent point. Software replacement costs will easily cost me more than a HD-DVD or BR player. I spent a small fortune replacing all of my VHS with DVDs over the years. Alot of those were repalced by 2nd hand DVD sold at discount stores from 6.00 to 10.00 dollars apiece. At least I had the common sense to buy Wide Screen format even though my current tube is 4:3. The only insurance one has with respect to the format war is to purchase a player that will play both formats if thats possible.

The Samsung BD-UP5000 for $800 will play both HD video formats and all HD audio formats!

 

[3db]

Cool . I'll just wait now for the price to drop

The Samsung BD-UP5000 for $800 will play both HD video formats and all HD audio formats!

My next upgrade will be my receiver. makes no sense for me to invest in a combi player yet until I have TV that will accept these new high def inputs. Thanks for the info

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My next upgrade will be my receiver. makes no sense for me to invest in a combi player yet until I have TV that will accept these new high def inputs. Thanks for the info

Well, when I said "All HD Audio Formats", I meant TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, & PCM. I don't consider SACD and DVD-A to be "HD audio formats".

 

[j_garcia]

You raise an excellent point. Software replacement costs will easily cost me more than a HD-DVD or BR player. I spent a small fortune replacing all of my VHS with DVDs over the years. Alot of those were repalced by 2nd hand DVD sold at discount stores from 6.00 to 10.00 dollars apiece. At least I had the common sense to buy Wide Screen format even though my current tube is 4:3. The only insurance one has with respect to the format war is to purchase a player that will play both formats if thats possible.

I have the same answer to this as I did before. No, you don't NEED to replace all of your discs....it isn't like DVD players or DVDs are going to go anywhere soon. Look how long it took for VHS to fade out and for DVD to become the norm. It didn't happen over night. Not to mention there is one big difference between VHS to DVD and DVD to HD: the discs can still be played in the new player. So unless you feel there is an absolute need to upgrade, there is nothing that says that you must buy in the new format. I have not upgraded every single movie that I own on DVD just because it came out on Blu-ray; only the ones that do seem to offer me something that is clearly better than the existing versions.

I do feel there is a use and benefit to upscaling players, because the picture quality is very good, but an expensive player just isn't necessary at this point.

Fence sitters who say they are waiting for the war to be over...make a choice and it will end a lot sooner.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I have the same answer to this as I did before. No, you don't NEED to replace all of your discs....

...unless, of course, watching a few HD movies spoils me forever and makes standard-def totally unwatchable by comparison. That is the real danger!

 

[3db]

Imagine the pod race in Stars War in HD

...unless, of course, watching a few HD movies spoils me forever and makes standard-def totally unwatchable by comparison. That is the real danger!

I can almost taste the dust

 

[solomr2]

I have the same answer to this as I did before. No, you don't NEED to replace all of your discs....it isn't like DVD players or DVDs are going to go anywhere soon. Look how long it took for VHS to fade out and for DVD to become the norm. It didn't happen over night. Not to mention there is one big difference between VHS to DVD and DVD to HD: the discs can still be played in the new player. So unless you feel there is an absolute need to upgrade, there is nothing that says that you must buy in the new format. I have not upgraded every single movie that I own on DVD just because it came out on Blu-ray; only the ones that do seem to offer me something that is clearly better than the existing versions.

I do feel there is a use and benefit to upscaling players, because the picture quality is very good, but an expensive player just isn't necessary at this point.

Fence sitters who say they are waiting for the war to be over...make a choice and it will end a lot sooner.

I agree... I don't intend to get rid of, or replace all my existing 480p DVDs just because the new stuff is out. I will likely have those for many years to come, even long after the format war is over, and possibly even after the next generation of HD comes out that oboletes BD/HD (1080p).

Now, if you get so used to watching 1080p movies that it makes you physically ill to go back and watch 480p, you're just not drinking enough

 

[3db]

I agree... I don't intend to get rid of, or replace all my existing 480p DVDs just because the new stuff is out. I will likely have those for many years to come, even long after the format war is over, and possibly even after the next generation of HD comes out that oboletes BD/HD (1080p).

Now, if you get so used to watching 1080p movies that it makes you physically ill to go back and watch 480p, you're just not drinking enough

I'll drink to that!!

 

[j_garcia]

1440p is next. I think they haven't milked the market enought with 1080p for them to release it though....