Please help on my reciever choice

[whubbard]

hi,

so im new around here!
Right now ive got an onyko ht-530 for my reciever, and the speakers that came with the kit. I'm going to be upgrading my reciever and im trying to decide between the Onkyo 805 and the Harmon Kardon 745. This system is used for JUST music, so audio quality is all that matters.

I'm also going to be getting new speakers (7.1) for around $1,000-$1,500, but im not sure which ones yet. Will the extra watts per channel on the onkyo really help?


THANKS!

 

[markw]

General rule of thumb for power:

If you double the watts, you get a barely audible 3 decibel increase in the peak loudness.

Unless you go for least double the power, don't waste your money. If there are features you absolutely need or want in your anticipated new receiver , then that's another story. A few extra watts can't hoit, but don't expect an epiphany or purchase it purely for that.

P.S. You're better off selecting your speakers first and then going for a receiver that can drive them. That's like going into a store with a bag and not knowing what you are going to buy.

 

[rnatalli]

P.S. You're better off selecting your speakers first and then going for a receiver that can drive them. That's like going into a store with a bag and not knowing what you are going to buy.

Second that.

 

[Davemcc]

I'm confused. You want 7.1 speakers for "just music". Are you using DVD-A or SACD sources, PLIIx or some other form of multi-channel music source?

Would you be better off building a dedicated stereo rig?

 

[whubbard]

Okay so with a little help I think what I'm going to do for speakers is use Emotiva's line thats comming out in January. The Emotiva ERD-1/Emotiva ERM-1 . They will be Front, Center, and Right. Then I will use my current Onkyo Fronts for side surround, and just use the small Onkyo ones for the back surround.

Knowing that...what reciever should I choose.

 

[Davemcc]

There's no need to be in a rush to judgement here. You should still go out and listen to as many speakers as you can to get an idea of what you like or don't like. Personally, I like the idea of the Emotiva speakers paired with the Hsu VTF-2 Mk3 and any mid/lower level Yamaha/Onkyo/Denon. I think it would sound phenomenal, and a tremendous bang for the buck, too.

But there are so many other choices out there to consider, you are well advised to stay tuned and check out all the other suggestions that you are going to get as well. This is a hobby. Slow down, enjoy it and make sure you get what's right for you.

 

[markw]

Suggestion when dealing with mail-order only speakers.

While ther are many excellent manufacturers out there, theit interpertation of "good sound" may not agree with yours. While they may offer in-home trrial periods, shipping costs back to the manufacturer may be on you and you may be hit with a restocking fee.

My suggestion to minimize the hit is to start out with a stereo pair forthe front mains. If these pass muster, then go ahead and get the remaining pieces to complete your setup. If not, you only have to worry about shipping two speakers, not 5 or 6.

Since you say this is mainly for music, two speakers should more than adequately communicate the designer's intent enough to see if it matches your expectations.

Oh, do I need to say that you should save all packing materials and keep them in good shape, along with your receipt?

 

[agarwalro]

P.S. You're better off selecting your speakers first and then going for a receiver that can drive them.

I second that. And here is what I wrote about speaker selection in a different thread.

You should first select the speakers and then the receiver. This is because the speakers specification will govern your receiver's minimum capabilities.

That said, look for the speaker impedence and sensitivity ratings.

Impedence considerations in ohms:
6 - 8: - Easy to drive, all receivers are capable of driving these
3 - 5: Touch to drive, need powerful receiver or dedicated amp
1 - 2: Tough to drive, must have dedicated amp

Sensitivity consideration in dB SPL/1W/1m:
>=89: Easy to drive
>86 but <89: Moderatly difficult
<=86: Tough to drive

So, you want a speaker that has 6 - 8 ohms impedence rating and >=89 SPL in Db/1W/1m Sensitivity rating.

 

[whubbard]

I'm confused. You want 7.1 speakers for "just music". Are you using DVD-A or SACD sources, PLIIx or some other form of multi-channel music source?

Would you be better off building a dedicated stereo rig?

Okay...well its not just speakers. I've got it hooked up to my creative card which is 7.1, and it is occastionally used for watching movies from my computer.

The other two main sources are a high end Mcintosh CD player, and a Rega p2. So the music is more important to me.

Also I know its not usuall, but I prefer to listen to music in full 7.1, it something about how it surrounds me that I enjoy. But I devietly need to be able to have good front speakers and a good center speaker.

But there are so many other choices out there to consider, you are well advised to stay tuned and check out all the other suggestions that you are going to get as well. This is a hobby. Slow down, enjoy it and make sure you get what's right for you.

Don't worry
I'm not buying anything till end of december or january.

While ther are many excellent manufacturers out there, theit interpertation of "good sound" may not agree with yours. While they may offer in-home trrial periods, shipping costs back to the manufacturer may be on you and you may be hit with a restocking fee.

I couldn't agree more, but I feel like at this level ($1000) I care more about good quality...that if I wished it would sound a bit warmer or something along those lines.

But so overall what do you all think of the Harmon Kardon 745 vs. the Onkyo 805?

 

[Elvis1977]

There is no question the 745 blows the 805 out of the water especially when it comes to music and the logic 7 is activated. Trust me on this one. I've listened to both very closely. For theater sound it is about even.

 

[Pipelayer]

There is no question the 745 blows the 805 out of the water especially when it comes to music and the logic 7 is activated. Trust me on this one. I've listened to both very closely. For theater sound it is about even.

Wow... I know watts isn't everything, but the Harmon Kardon 745 is only pushing 85 watts per channel and the Onkyo in pushing a 130. Granted, a 130 watts on a questionable receiver against 85 watts on a good one, is no contest, the good one wins. But Onkyo most definitely is not a questionable receiver. It is, in fact, a very hightly regarded system in the surround sound & music market. The "awards" and "number one" picks definitely goes to Onkyo.

Nevertheless, here is the bottom line: These are very popular systems, it should not be hard to find them in any professional audio store. Take a CD that you like and know very well. Many of these units will be connected to some type of DVD/CD player. If possible ask could you hear your CD on both systems.... and judge for yourself which appeals to you the most.

 

[Seth=L]

Wow... I know watts isn't everything, but the Harmon Kardon 745 is only pushing 85 watts per channel and the Onkyo in pushing a 130. Granted, a 130 watts on a questionable receiver against 85 watts on a good one, is no contest, the good one wins. But Onkyo most definitely is not a questionable receiver. It is, in fact, a very hightly regarded system in the surround sound & music market. The "awards" and "number one" picks definitely goes to Onkyo.

Nevertheless, here is the bottom line: These are very popular systems, it should not be hard to find them in any professional audio store. Take a CD that you like and know very well. Many of these units will be connected to some type of DVD/CD player. If possible ask could you hear your CD on both systems.... and judge for yourself which appeals to you the most.

Actually the Harman Kardon and Onkyo have very comparitive power, regardless of what power specs they give. Each of these receivers are 50 pound monsters and are very capable and can power most speakers quite handily.

The Onkyo's edges would be it is more up to date audio-wise. It has HDMI 1.3 with all the HD audio processing fixins (even though they aren't absolutely necessary to get lossless sound from HD DVD and Blu-ray). The Onkyo will also pass 1080p, which I can't be certain that the H/K does, as it does not boast such a feature anywhere in its specifications or item discription.

Edges the H/K has are the scaling options (gimmicky at best, as they are only Faroudja and can only scale to 720p/1080i), USB port for streaming music from a portable flash/hard drive, and two subwoofer output instead of one. The subwoofer preout issue can be rendered with a y-splitter, which is a very low cost item. Most subwoofers are have inputs hot enough to take the split signal and work as effectively as they would without a split signal.

All that said, they are very comparable receivers, perhaps the most comparable in terms of bang for buck on street prices, with the Onkyo still being in the lead for best bang for buck (street price is typically $100-$150 lower than the H/K).

 

[PENG]

Everything being equal weight can be a good guideline but everything is not always equal especially when comparing models from different manufacturers. In this case, the 805seems to offer more power, though people could still say they are comparable by arguing that doubling the power only yields 3 dB SPL.

I found some lab test results for the 875, the 805 weighs the same, both a little lighter than the 745 and all 3 are much lighter than the 7300 but the Onkyo 875 is slightly more powerful than the HK 7300 in Stereo while slightly less powerful in 7 channel.

Onkyo SR875 http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2463/test-bench-onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver.html

Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts (23/25.1 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts (21.5 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts (21.1 dBW)
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.02/0.03%
Noise level (A-weighted): -76.1 dB
Excess noise (with sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.7 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, -0.8 dB

MULTICHANNEL PERFORMANCE, ANALOG INPUT

Reference input and output level is 200 mV; volume setting for reference output level was -14.0.

Distortion (THD+N, 1 kHz, 8 ohms): 0.01%
Noise level (A-weighted.): -82.9 dB
Frequency response: <10 Hz to 183 kHz +0, -3 dB

STEREO PERFORMANCE, DIGITAL INPUT

Reference level is -20 dBFS; all level trims at zero. Volume setting for reference level was 6.5.

Output at clipping (1 kHz, both channels driven)
8/4 ohms: 185/320 watts (22.7/25.1 dBW)
Distortion at reference level: 0.02%
Linearity error (at -90 dBFS): 0.2 dB
Noise level (A-weighted): -75.6 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: -88.8 dB


Compared to the much heavier HKAVR7300, http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf

Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven .... 202/343 W (23.1/25.3 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms) .....145 W (21.6 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms) .....139 W (21.4 dBW)
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms .........................................0.03/0.04%
Noise level (A-wtd) ............................ –75.0 dB
Excess noise (with sine tone)
16-bit (EN16) .........................................+1.4 dB
Frequency response
20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, –0.3 dB

STEREO PERFORMANCE,
DIGITAL INPUTS
Reference level, –20 dBFS; all level trims at
zero. Volume setting for reference level, –10.
Output at clipping (1 kHz, 8/4 ohms, both
channels driven) .....181/290 W (25.6/24.6 dBW)
Distortion at reference level .............. 0.02%

I can't find any data for the 745 but I doubt it will be much more powerful than the 630, which is available. online. Between the two, I would take the Onkyo 805. I thought it offers more bangs for the buck overall. I would expect the 805 to win by a wider margin in 2 channel output so if your main concern is 2 channel music, the choice is even more obvious. I also do not believe this thing about HK being warmer, more musical is true/objective. It is important that you bring your own favourite CDs and take the time to listen for yourself.