Opinions Wanted - My Amp Quandary

[Adam]

Greetings, everyone.

Here's my situation. I have a receiver, and recently bought an RPA-1 200W/channel two-channel amp. I really like the improvement in sound with the amp powering my front two speakers, and I would like to get an outboard amp for (at the minimum) my center channel, as well. My dilemma is in deciding which way to go with a new amp - single channel or multi-channel, 200W or lower, Emotiva or Outlaw - or to just not get another amp. I would appreciate any and all opinions on the way to go.

Some of my thinking so far has been, and I'm open to all criticism:
1. I'd like 200W/channel because that's what I got with the RPA-1 and I know that it makes a difference
2. A monoblock amp is all that I need for the center, but would cause me to buy an additional amp if I want to power more speakers in the future
3. A 5-channel amp gives me 7 total channels (including the RPA-1) and lets me amp all five speakers now (leaving two unused) and even bi-amp the mains in the future if I ever get any that allow it
4. A 7-channel amp gives me 9 total channels (leaving four unused), allowing me to bi-amp the mains and center channel in the future (but leaving one extra channel)

The amps that I've focused on so far are:
1. Outlaw M2200 200W monoblock for ~$360 after shipping ($275 if I go with B-stock). The power that I want, would easily fit in my entertainment center, the least expensive option, but with the least expansion ability.
2. Outlaw 7500 5-channel 200W amp for $1599+shipping. Easily into the price range that makes me think long and hard. Big.
3. Outlaw 7700 7-channel 200W amp for $2149+shipping. Same notes as the 7500.
4. IPS-1 7-channel 150W amp for $1051 shipped. Would fit easily in my center, has a good price, but has less power. Here's the one that gives me the most indecision. If 150W is truly enough, then this would seem to be the outright winner.
5. MPS-2 7-channel 200W amp for $1749 shipped. Power that I want with individual monoblock modules...mmmm, tasty. Big (perhaps too big for my center). Comes with the baggage that I know that I could have purchased the MPS-1 for $1530 back in July, so my regret factor is high if I buy this one.

So, am I just way off base with my thinking? Should I just get one amp for the center and call it a day? Or should I "go big or go home" and get a 7-channel 200W amp and suck up the cost? All input is welcome, and I thank you all for your help!

Adam

 

[avaserfi]

If you really like your Emotiva, and it seems like you do, I would say stick with them. With that thought process I would say you should get the IPS-1 as 150 watts should be more than enough power going all around to your speakers. Remember for a 3db increase in SPL it requires a doubling of power.

The caveat:

Now I know the thought process involved in not getting the big boy and if you can really afford to it might be a good idea to get the MPS-2 just for the piece of mind . I mean a good amp will always be a good amp, no matter the speakers.

 

[MDS]

I will agree with avaserfi. While I personally don't really care about having separate amps (at least at this point), I'm goofy in the sense that I would want everything to match. I'd much rather prefer option 4 (IPS-1) so I could have one amp that handles everything.

The IPS-1 would be flexible in that it coud power the front three with a few unused channels or be used for bi-amping the fronts (if for no other reason than to experiment to convince yourself, one way or the other, whether bi-amping has any benefits).

I don't think the difference between 150 and 200 wpc will make any difference since you will be hard pressed to use the full 150 wpc, let alone 200 wpc, in all but the most demanding of circumstances where your ears will object long before the amplifier.

 

[Adam]

Thanks, Andrew. I appreciate it. I'm trying hard to decide if 150W will do it, as I know that 200W is good stuff. My instincts tell me that it should be, but I need some convincing.

As for getting the big boy...honestly, I'd rather have the MPS-1 because it would visually match the RPA-1, but there is NO way that I'll allow myself to drop $1899 on something that I could have had for $1530. Yes, yes, I'm driven by regret.

As for Outlaw versus Emotiva, I'm happy with the Emotiva, but I'm not really biased either way. There are aspects of both that I like.

 

[Adam]

I don't think the difference between 150 and 200 wpc will make any difference since you will be hard pressed to use the full 150 wpc, let alone 200 wpc, in all but the most demanding of circumstances where your ears will object long before the amplifier.

Thanks, MDS. I tend to agree with you and Andrew as I sit around pondering this question, but I still have some doubts.

First, let me admit that I'm perpetually confused when it comes to amps. I know that I don't need 200W continuous (as my ears were hurting when my RPA-1 was registering something like 2W), but I haven't nailed down an understanding of transients. Would a 200W amp have more clarity than a 150W amp? Also, is the topology of the MPS (or Outlaws) noticeably better than the IPS?

These are the questions that drive me (in addition to "what is the Matrix?")

 

[MDS]

The Matrix is an alternate reality created by the Architect...but I digress.

Transients can require 10x the power to faithfully reproduce. Having an amp that can produce the required current (and by implication watts) will ensure that fast transients don't clip but realistically how much is it going to matter?

A transient is by definition a very short term event. I just think that a high power (watts), high current amp can deal with practically anything unless you want to push it to the point where your neighbors three doors down can hear it with perfect fidelity. I don't know, it's a tough choice but I personally would prefer the one box that can deal with all the channels I need it to deal with instead of having multiple giant boxes taking up space, adding heat, etc.

 

[Adam]

... personally would prefer the one box that can deal with all the channels I need it to deal with instead of having multiple giant boxes taking up space, adding heat, etc.

I'm with you on that one! My pondering involves (a) would a single additional monoblock be enough, and if not (b) which multi-channel amp should I get?

The IPS-1 is clearly the cheapest multi-channel amp in the running. The upcoming XPA-5 gets me to the 200W that I want, but I don't know if it will have the performance of the IPS-1. The Outlaw amps have a nice simplicity to their faceplates, are assembled in the USA (sure, parts are from who knows where), and are fully balanced.

I think that I just need to win the lotto. Either that or just relax the financial sphincter for a few minutes and hit the "order" button.

 

[MDS]

I think that I just need to win the lotto. Either that or just relax the financial sphincter for a few minutes and hit the "order" button.

You're preaching to the choir my friend. How many people do you know that could deal with no TV and an empty living room for 5 months? I am the king of self deprivation.

It will all come to an end soon though...I think I've decided on living room furniture and which TV to buy. I am going to take my normal vacation around Thanksgiving but this year I will stay in town and finally purchase the furniture and TV at that time. Maybe sometime soon I will have the same quandary as to whether I should get additional amps. Knowing me, it will take me months to decide.

 

[Adam]

I am the king of self deprivation.

I just envisioned you as the albino guy from The Da Vinci Code flailing himself - "must pay penance for thinking about TV today" - wa-pow!

It will all come to an end soon though...I think I've decided on living room furniture and which TV to buy.

Let the rejoicing begin! MDS is returning to the fold! Oh, wait. "I think I've decided...." I've been there. I'll expect pictures of the new system sometime around August 2008.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks, Andrew. I appreciate it. I'm trying hard to decide if 150W will do it, as I know that 200W is good stuff. My instincts tell me that it should be, but I need some convincing.

As for getting the big boy...honestly, I'd rather have the MPS-1 because it would visually match the RPA-1, but there is NO way that I'll allow myself to drop $1899 on something that I could have had for $1530. Yes, yes, I'm driven by regret.

As for Outlaw versus Emotiva, I'm happy with the Emotiva, but I'm not really biased either way. There are aspects of both that I like.

If two watts were hurting, 100x or 20dB of power should be more than enough and you also need to consider an amp's dynamic capability, the ability to increase power for those transients. 200 watts is just a fraction over 1 dB more power, not much. May want to investigate the dynamic capability of both amps and see which delivers more.

 

[rnatalli]

I agree with the general feeling here. The IPS-1 is a lot of amp for the money. The MPS series is also a good option if you're willing to spend that much. I like the Outlaw stuff as well, but Emotiva seems to be offering more bang-for-buck at this point in time.

 

[Nomo]

If you can hold out a few months my advise would be the XPA-5. I believe it's release is January (??)
Does it compare to the RPA-1? Probably not. But it should do a more than adequate job of driving your center and surrounds well enough to match up rather well.

 

[Adam]

I agree with the general feeling here. The IPS-1 is a lot of amp for the money. The MPS series is also a good option if you're willing to spend that much. I like the Outlaw stuff as well, but Emotiva seems to be offering more bang-for-buck at this point in time.

Thanks, rnatalli. The more that I think about it, the more that I lean towards the IPS-1. I want to talk to Emotiva and get their impressions about how it stacks up against the MPS series. I e-mailed them on Friday, but I'm pretty sure that it was after they closed - so gotta wait until tomorrow.

If you can hold out a few months my advise would be the XPA-5. I believe it's release is January (??)
Does it compare to the RPA-1? Probably not. But it should do a more than adequate job of driving your center and surrounds well enough to match up rather well.

Thanks, Nomo. Definitely a contender, but there are two things holding me back on the XPA-5. First, it's 19" deep, and that depth is an issue with my furniture. Second, if the IPS-1 is enough power and is a better performer, then I'm willing to spend a little more on it. 5x200W for $700 is very tempting, though! Very tempting...

 

[Cavediver]

If you want a really good reasonably priced 5 channel amp you should consider a d-sonic amp. http://www.d-sonic.net/ The amps are based on the ice-power amp modules. There are a range of output wattages available. The sound is completely transparent / neutral. You won't find a better price / value for a comparable wattage amp.

 

[Adam]

If you want a really good reasonably priced 5 channel amp you should consider a d-sonic amp. http://www.d-sonic.net/ The amps are based on the ice-power amp modules. There are a range of output wattages available. The sound is completely transparent / neutral. You won't find a better price / value for a comparable wattage amp.

Thanks, Cavediver. I might have missed something when I checked out that site, but their multi-channel amps cost more than any of the amps that I'm considering. I'd prefer to stick with one of the two brands that I mentioned, but I do appreciate the input!

 

[Seth=L]

Thanks, Cavediver. I might have missed something when I checked out that site, but their multi-channel amps cost more than any of the amps that I'm considering. I'd prefer to stick with one of the two brands that I mentioned, but I do appreciate the input!

He is a proud owner of the D-sonic amplifier.

Switching amps have gotten better, but the good ones are going to be at least as expensive as the D-sonic, it goes up from there.

The RPA-1 will probably have much more dynamic capability than the IPS-1. My opinion, either amplifier has more than enough power to destroy your speakers by over powering. You are spending way to much on amplification when you could be upgrading the speakers. I used to have two pair NHT 1.5s, and while they can handle a surprising amount of power you are reaching a point where there really is no more point.

 

[Adam]

You are spending way to much on amplification when you could be upgrading the speakers.

Ahhh, but you are assuming that I'm not also upgrading my speakers. I had originally planned on upgrading my speakers first, but because I know that I'm going to get another amp anyway, I've decided to get one now and see how much difference it makes with my NHTs. I happen to really like the 1.5s. It's my center channel that is the weak link, IMO, and I would like to see if higher quality juice would bring it up to par with the others.

 

[avaserfi]

Ahhh, but you are assuming that I'm not also upgrading my speakers. I had originally planned on upgrading my speakers first, but because I know that I'm going to get another amp anyway, I've decided to get one now and see how much difference it makes with my NHTs. I happen to really like the 1.5s. It's my center channel that is the weak link, IMO, and I would like to see if higher quality juice would bring it up to par with the others.

Well if that is the case perhaps you could see if Emotiva will give you a discount for buying an amp an a butt-load of speakers .

Another thing to think about is if you buy the MPS-1/2 or anyother 7 channel amp you could always sell your RPA...unless of course you need a two channel system also .

Also, you really should be getting a new display too hehehe .

 

[Adam]

...you could see if Emotiva will give you a discount for buying an amp an a butt-load of speakers .

Hee, hee. Good thinking! I'm not interested in their speakers, though.

...you could always sell your RPA...

I thought about that, but that's not really in my nature. I'm a user and a giver, but not a reseller.

Also, you really should be getting a new display too hehehe .

Oh, there is NO doubt about that! I want to go look at the new Panasonic TH-50PZ77U in person.

 

[avaserfi]

Hee, hee. Good thinking! I'm not interested in their speakers, though.

Who are you looking into?

I thought about that, but that's not really in my nature. I'm a user and a giver, but not a reseller.

I don't have an amp .

Oh, there is NO doubt about that! I want to go look at the new Panasonic TH-50PZ77U in person.

Great choice .