Dual Subwoofers in a small room?

[Bluesmoke]

Here is my theater room - well basically a converted upstairs bedroom. It's 14 feet long and 10 feet wide, with a closet in the corner (shaded in black). Anyway, my problem is getting deep bass in the room. Raising the volume on the sub creates a bloaty, boomy sound.

The problem I think is the raised ceiling. The room has a 7x7 foot area with a 3.5 foot raise (147cu/f) from the 8 foot ceiling of the room. So, if my math is correct, the room has a Cu/f of just under 1200.

The subwoofer (Energy S10.3) is now in the back corner of the room where the ceiling is raised. I find this place to be the most ideal compromise of the best bass. However, the sub isn't going deep enough regardless of where I put it. I'm talking virtually ZERO impact from large explosions.

I was thinking whether a 2nd sub would do the job. Maybe place them to the front of the room between my front speakers, facing the closet opening. Would that help, or would I be just throwing the money away.

 

[mike c]

i am unfamiliar with your sub but:

-try to place the sub nearfield and see if that adds to the impact
-try to measure your frequency response to check if yuo have dips at the listening position (use test tones and an spl meter, or REW)
-if you plan on getting a second sub, get the biggest baddest sub within your budget and just lose the energy sub

 

[mtrycrafts]

Here is my theater room - well basically a converted upstairs bedroom. It's 14 feet long and 10 feet wide, with a closet in the corner (shaded in black). Anyway, my problem is getting deep bass in the room. Raising the volume on the sub creates a bloaty, boomy sound.

The problem I think is the raised ceiling. The room has a 7x7 foot area with a 3.5 foot raise (147cu/f) from the 8 foot ceiling of the room. So, if my math is correct, the room has a Cu/f of just under 1200.

The subwoofer (Energy S10.3) is now in the back corner of the room where the ceiling is raised. I find this place to be the most ideal compromise of the best bass. However, the sub isn't going deep enough regardless of where I put it. I'm talking virtually ZERO impact from large explosions.

I was thinking whether a 2nd sub would do the job. Maybe place them to the front of the room between my front speakers, facing the closet opening. Would that help, or would I be just throwing the money away.

Maybe you are in just a bad seating area? Maybe the sub just cannot do the low frequency at your desired levels?
You would need test tones, spl meter to plot the frequency response of the sub/room interface. Then, you may need to reposition and replot.

2nd sub may or may not help.

 

[fmw]

2nd sub may or may not help.

I would agree with this. A different one or second one with a larger driver might help even more because, in my experience, the 10" drivers have a hard time with movie LFE. They can often do pretty well with music but they don't often shake the room with movies. Adding a second one might add to the volume of the bass without actually getting to the frequencies needed for LFE.

The size of the room determines how much air has to be moved to produce the bass. Think about how much bass you hear with the tiny drivers in headphones. Compare that to what drives bass in an auditorium. So in theory a second one should certainly make a difference. But why not make the second one a model with a larger driver to be sure?

 

[Pwner_2130]

Here is my theater room - well basically a converted upstairs bedroom. It's 14 feet long and 10 feet wide, with a closet in the corner (shaded in black). Anyway, my problem is getting deep bass in the room. Raising the volume on the sub creates a bloaty, boomy sound.

The problem I think is the raised ceiling. The room has a 7x7 foot area with a 3.5 foot raise (147cu/f) from the 8 foot ceiling of the room. So, if my math is correct, the room has a Cu/f of just under 1200.

The subwoofer (Energy S10.3) is now in the back corner of the room where the ceiling is raised. I find this place to be the most ideal compromise of the best bass. However, the sub isn't going deep enough regardless of where I put it. I'm talking virtually ZERO impact from large explosions.

I was thinking whether a 2nd sub would do the job. Maybe place them to the front of the room between my front speakers, facing the closet opening. Would that help, or would I be just throwing the money away.

I'd say try placing the second subwoofer in the right corner(near the right front channel) and moving the couch a couple feet closer to the TV...perhaps the Bass has nowhere to go because you have it like 5 feet from the closet.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Com to think of this again, your sub is near your listening position so you would be in its direct field and less in the room modes, just like Hsu recommends their subs be placed by your seat, if possible.
So, it may be your sub just cannot deliver what you are after, but still need to measure and plot stuff. Not an easy get of of jail ticket

 

[no. 5]

I agree, measuring the in room response will give you a good idea of what you need to do to get the bass right.

 

[Bluesmoke]

Ok, I've moved the sub between the front right and center channel. I find that the response seems more even, less boomy and I can't tell the direction from which the bass is coming. It's still not going down deep enough even though the sub is rated at 21hz. I'll try to find a SPL. Weird thing, I went to Radio Shack (now called Source) for a SPL meter and they didn't have one. Weird.

 

[mike c]

the ones in canada don't have spl meters.

believe me, I tried.

you should order from the US.

you can even include it in your order for an SVS subwoofer (yes, SVS sells SPL meters) two birds with one stone!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ok, I've moved the sub between the front right and center channel. I find that the response seems more even, less boomy and I can't tell the direction from which the bass is coming. It's still not going down deep enough even though the sub is rated at 21hz. I'll try to find a SPL. Weird thing, I went to Radio Shack (now called Source) for a SPL meter and they didn't have one. Weird.

Well, that just about gives you the answer on a platter
Just because it is rated to 21Hz, doesn't mean it can deliver that at any meaningful volume. You need a better sub, a much better sub.

 

[no. 5]

Just because it is rated to 21Hz, doesn't mean it can deliver that at any meaningful volume. You need a better sub, a much better sub.

I looked up a review of the old one (the S10.2), it measured -3dB at 25Hz... but he has the new one, I'm sure it's waaaay better.

 

[Davemcc]

Ok, I've moved the sub between the front right and center channel. I find that the response seems more even, less boomy and I can't tell the direction from which the bass is coming. It's still not going down deep enough even though the sub is rated at 21hz. I'll try to find a SPL. Weird thing, I went to Radio Shack (now called Source) for a SPL meter and they didn't have one. Weird.

www.sonicboomaudio.com for the SPL.

From Brampton, you can probably pick it up at Sonic Boom and give some of the SVS' a listen while you're there.

 

[the grunt]

I also have a fairly small room and found a couple of things that helped. First definitely get a SPL meter and something to play test tones. I found that most of my boomyness was actually coming from my main speakers at 168Hz and 240Hz. Moving the speakers out from the wall more and moving my seating helped but didn’t completely solve it completely. So I’m looking into room treatments now.

My sub produces more low bass than I need. However, since I live in an apartment I try not to turn it up much. So to get low bass at my seat at night I use a Buttkicker attached to my couch. Tuned to blend with the subwoofer it works really well. Not a replacement for a good sub if you can get a sub set up to work in your room. But if it turns out your room just won’t cooperate you might give a Buttkicker a try.

 

[Gasman]

I found that most of my boomyness was actually coming from my main speakers at 168Hz and 240Hz.

WOW, I find that strange. 240Hz, are you sure?

"The voiced speech of a typical adult male will have a fundamental frequency of from 85 to 155 Hz, and that of a typical adult female from 165 to 255 Hz."

Have you tried the rattle test? Frequency sweep?
I would have to say, that there really should be no 'boomyness' at 240Hz.
If you do, then you have major room conditions (reflections, I would think) that need correcting. (possibly, toe speakers out)
Or if you have a AVR with built in EQ, I would turn the mid-range down.

 

[Bluesmoke]

I looked up a review of the old one (the S10.2), it measured -3dB at 25Hz... but he has the new one, I'm sure it's waaaay better.

Sorry, not really an expert here. Is that good or bad?

 

[annunaki]

Based upon your room's dimensions and assuming your closet is 4' x 4' x 8', I get about 1,459 cu.ft. In any case if it is the deep low end you are after (below 25hz) you may just need a new sub.

I would first experiment more with placement by taking measurements. Or, you could do the super simple action of placing the sub in the listening position. Then play real low frequencies and or pink noise and crawl around on your hands and knees and listen where the sub sounds the best. Once you find that spot, place the sub there and do some more listening tests.

I do not have this option as my sub weighs 125 lbs.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I looked up a review of the old one (the S10.2), it measured -3dB at 25Hz... but he has the new one, I'm sure it's waaaay better.

Yes, -3dB but at what spl level? Certainly not at 120, right? Is it at 100? 80? or maybe at 60?

 

[Bluesmoke]

Ok, it may not be the deep lows I'm after. I simply want to feel the slam that people talk about for movies. I'm not getting any of that for large explosions or rumbling heavy effects.

 

[annunaki]

Mtrycrafts is on the ball here. You want more spl than you current sub delivers. You want something that will shake the room and your body. You need a sub capable of playing into the 20hz range or lower at a fairly high level (100db+). You will need a larger woofer for more spl and a sub system capable of playing deeper. Adding another sub (same model) will give you more of what you have at a higher volume and blend the response more evenly in the room.

 

[no. 5]

Sorry, not really an expert here. Is that good or bad?

It means that the tested low frequency extension of the previous model to the subwoofer you own is 4Hz higher than what Energy advertises for the model you own.
Assuming the new model performs similar to the old one, it can give you some idea of what your sub may be capable of.

Yes, -3dB but at what spl level? Certainly not at 120, right? Is it at 100? 80? or maybe at 60?

Unknown. The review provided no information as to maximum SPL, one would hope it to be above 60dB though.

At any rate, I really think measuring the response of the room should be priority, as it is possible to get a bigger sub and find it still sounds unsatisfactory, because of the room.