Dual Subwoofers in a small room?

[Bluesmoke]

I was able to find this info with a little searching.

Bass limits for the S10.3 subwoofer were measured with it set to maximum bandwidth and placed in the optimal corner of a 7,500-cubic-foot room. In a smaller room, you can expect 2 to 3 Hz deeper extension and up to 3 dB higher sound-pressure level (SPL). The S10.3 had above average dynamic capability, and the acoustical crossover points matched the dial markings closely. — Tom Nousaine

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=61&article_id=849&page_number=1&print_page=y

Energy S10.3
subwoofer 20 Hz at 84 dB SPL
104 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
108 dB maximum SPL at 62 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 97%

 

[jaysicle]

Low Frequency troubles

Hello,

Impact / Visceral = 80-120Hz Amplitude dependant of course.
Pantleg moving stuff.

Boomy / Bloated = First Octave Collection w/reduction above that to reinforce problem.

Your subwoofer is located in a corner. Each wall is giving you 3dB SPL of gain at ~100Hz and below. It doesn't have an opportunity not to be boomy or bloated. Definition is lost this way because impact frequencies are actually higher than (as above) the first octave stuff. Try moving sub to a location with only (2) surfaces to reinforce. Since low frequencies are non-directional by nature you can put it anywhere in your room really. It will get to you.

Beware of using SPL meters in your house. They are weighted for industrial purposes (A weighting) = Annoyance = Human Loudness Contour is in the signal path, = sloped "weighting" = not accurate enough for your application. Don't waste time/effort/wonder/money on this.

If your sub has phase shifting ability, you should muck with that a bit also & try to find a setting that couples properly to your mains in your listening position(s).

-me-

 

[garbage pale kid]

can you adjust the cross over on your amp

 

[jaysicle]

Likely, but usually only low pass (high cut) point right.

 

[the grunt]

WOW, I find that strange. 240Hz, are you sure?

"The voiced speech of a typical adult male will have a fundamental frequency of from 85 to 155 Hz, and that of a typical adult female from 165 to 255 Hz."

Have you tried the rattle test? Frequency sweep?
I would have to say, that there really should be no 'boomyness' at 240Hz.
If you do, then you have major room conditions (reflections, I would think) that need correcting. (possibly, toe speakers out)
Or if you have a AVR with built in EQ, I would turn the mid-range down.

Hi Gasman,

I didn’t want to hijack this thread so I started a new one to respond to your post.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36349

Thanks

 

[no. 5]

Beware of using SPL meters in your house. They are weighted for industrial purposes (A weighting) = Annoyance = Human Loudness Contour is in the signal path, = sloped "weighting" = not accurate enough for your application. Don't waste time/effort/wonder/money on this.

In what way?

Do not many commercially available allow a user selectable A or C weighting?

I know that such equipment often does not have a flat frequency response, but I do not think that this is by designer choice.

 

[jaysicle]

I will have to dig up curves for you if I have them.

Loudness contours. The human ears are great from ~100Hz-7kHz for speaking to each other. Not as sensitive below or above that range.

In most cases I would guess that this is very much by design, since even $2.50 condensor mics are relatively flat throughout full audio spectrum.
Sound level meters with A weighting are tailored for the human loudness contour, with emphasis in the annoying mid-range.

-me-

 

[no. 5]

I will have to dig up curves for you if I have them.

Loudness contours. The human ears are great from ~100Hz-7kHz for speaking to each other. Not as sensitive below or above that range.

In most cases I would guess that this is very much by design, since even $2.50 condensor mics are relatively flat throughout full audio spectrum.
Sound level meters with A weighting are tailored for the human loudness contour, with emphasis in the annoying mid-range.

-me-

Right, the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curve, I am somewhat familiar with it. And that A weighting approximately reflects human hearing response.

What I am curious about is the statement that SPL meters only use A weighting, as the ever so common Radio Shack meter is selectable A or C weighting, however, the correction factors for that meter do reflect a drop in low frequency response, but a mild peak between 1.6kHz and 10kHz.

 

[Bluesmoke]

Just an update. I bought a Yamaha 6060 to replace my HK 247 and the bass effects jumped up immediately. The bass is much better and defined than before. But I'm still not getting impact from explosions and so forth.

And I think spending the extra for a 2nd sub might be too much and for that price, I can get a good 12" SVS sub. Perhaps the SVS 10-39 PCI from SonicBoom for $725can. Would this be the way to go? Sell my Energy S10 and get a SVS instead, than 2 S10s in the room?

 

[bpape]

Personally, I think one good sub is the best solution in that space. I'd also check out HSU research - especially if you're using it for music listening too. It's a bit quicker and more musical IMO than the SVS's.

Bryan

 

[annunaki]

Bpape becareful about using terms such as "quicker".

Please see this thread and subsequent links about subwoofer myths:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35455

HSU makes a good sub but whether it is more musical than the SVS is subjective at best.

 

[bpape]

Understand. I personally don't believe it's a myth. I could sit you down with a pair of subs (for example an ACI and an SVS) and try to blend each of them with something like Magnepans. The ACI will be a snap and the SVS will just never happen properly (I've actually done this). It's not so much the attack side as it is the overhang when the signal to the sub stops.

Also agreed on the subjective - that's why I said IMO. To each their own - I was simply offering my opinion. Many of my customers have done the comparison of the HSU to the SVS in their homes and pretty much all of them who do music listening ended up with the HSU. Now, if all you need is a boom-boom box for home theater, then either will do the job at a reasonable price. They're both very good values.

Bryan

 

[annunaki]

ACI? What is that?

Sorry if I missed it somewhere.

Are you comparing sealed vs. ported? Was the response curve and output matched accordingly?

I don't doubt there can be differences in sound from one sub to another, it is just nice to point out exactly what that difference may be.

Just checking the potential variables.

 

[bpape]

ACI is a speaker/sub manufacturer that, again IMO, makes some of the most musical subs around. Yes - they're sealed. But if quickness is a myth, that shouldn't matter. And neither should driver size in terms of integration.

The comparison was not one to the other but to try to get each to integrate with something as fast (another myth???) as an electromagnetic panel type speaker.

The level of the speakers remained constant. The subs were brought up and measured to be of the same average level as the mains. Phase was adjusted at the xover frequency to yield the most output with each sub. (Phase adjustments are really only accurate at one frequency anyway).

If you think that there is no difference in the sound of subs, then I may just be arguing with myself. I personally run a ServoDrive ContraBass. A unique design by Tom Danley. 2 active 15's, 2 passive 18's, no magnets, no voicecoils. The measured distortion on this sub actually goes DOWN as you push it harder. It's a passive unit that I run with a 1300W Crown amp.

I've had the big Velodynes, the SVS, the HSU, the ACI, and a host of others in my room. None of them sound anything like this sub - and shouldn't (the ACI came the closest). It's $8k new for a passive unit. But, it outputs 114db @ 16Hz and does it cleanly. And this one WILL integrate well with panels - even though it uses large drivers. It can be done.

Just some food for thought. We're way off topic from the OP's intent. Again, I was just making a recommendation based on my personal experience with a lot of subs in a lot of different rooms and integrating them with different speakers for different uses. The one thing that the SVS does have that the HSU does not is a continuously variable phase adjustment which is very nice to have.

Bryan