Are you buying Blu-ray or HD DVD this Christmas?

Are you buying a high definition player this xmas? DONT VOTE FOR WHAT YOU ALREADY OWN

  • Yes, I am buying Blu-ray (includes a PS3)

    Votes: 10 9.9%
  • Yes, I am buying an HD-DVD player (or Xbox 360 add-on drive)

    Votes: 13 12.9%
  • Yes, I am buying a combo unit or both players (one way or another)

    Votes: 5 5.0%
  • Nope. Not buying either this season.

    Votes: 73 72.3%

  • Total voters
    101
  • Poll closed .
R

rmiller413

Audiophyte
The last time I went to Best Buy I saw about 8 racks of video disks. One half of one side of a rack contained Blu-Ray disks. One half of one side of another rack contained HD-DVD disks.

The latest Panasonic player is very tempting, but I can't see spending the money on a player that I will only buy a handful of disks for. I have a Sony upconverting DVD changer that gives me picture quality I consider to be more than acceptable.

Give me a changer with excellent DVD upconversion that can play at least one of the new formats, as well as SACD and DVD-A disks, for less than about five hundred dollars, and I'll be interested.
 
G

GaryCo

Audiophyte
I will keep an eye on the Blu-Ray players this fall, i would like to add one to go along with my XA2.

I am moving to format neutral , i just want to enjoy the movies.

quality upconversion is not concern as i already have that with the HD DVD player, just give me a reasonable priced machine , that can have the firmware updated and that can decode all the hi rez audion codecs via HDMI

gary
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
I will keep an eye on the Blu-Ray players this fall, i would like to add one to go along with my XA2.

I am moving to format neutral , i just want to enjoy the movies.

quality upconversion is not concern as i already have that with the HD DVD player, just give me a reasonable priced machine , that can have the firmware updated and that can decode all the hi rez audion codecs via HDMI

gary
Currently available

Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-ray Disc player - $418 on Amazon
Sharp Aquos BD-HP20U Blu-ray Disc player - $399 at Park Ave Electronics


Both players send both TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio through bitstream.
Neither is profile 1.1 compliant (secondary video encoder)
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Well, my significant other doesn't really see that much of a difference either, so there is also the condition where the user doesn't really CARE about the subtle differences enough for it to matter. I don't fall into that category or I wouldn't have been interested in HD myself. My first experience with HD was via Comcast HD and I was, quite honestly, blown away. I get the same level of impressiveness on my system with Blu-ray, when the disc is well mastered (tried Underworld last night and WOW). A friend came over and I mentioned BD and showed her a brief snippet of one of my favorite discs and she immediately said "Wow that is so much clearer!"

I agree, it is still going to be a niche market for a while possibly years, if it even survives; as Clint is predicting it will not. DVD definitely meets my needs, but BD actually impresses me like the first time I watched a DVD after having been a VHS junkie for so long.
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
I bought the A2 because it was cheap ($210) with 8 free movies. For me, it was a no brainer. I plan to buy another one for my bedroom when another deal like that comes along again on the A3. I have 720p displays, which is enough for me. A good 1080p display looks no different to me than a good 720p display, and for those who wonder, my corrected vision is better than 20/20:D

I won't buy a Blu-Ray player until they hit my magic price point (around $200, preferably with some free movies:D). I hate Sony, but would still buy a player at the right price.

I have seen Blu Ray and HD DVD movies and think they both look outstanding. I think upconverted DVD's look outstanding as well, but much less so than the HD formats or HD cable (Discovery especially).

I would bet J6P thinks they both look great too, but won't buy either unless they hit his/her magic price point. Toshiba is much closer to getting there than Sony, based on price alone. Really, unless you get past that, nothing else matters.

Oh, and those who discussed media costs..... J6P doesn't care as he rents from netflix or blockbuster:rolleyes:

Pat
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
Currently available

Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-ray Disc player - $418 on Amazon
Sharp Aquos BD-HP20U Blu-ray Disc player - $399 at Park Ave Electronics


Both players send both TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio through bitstream.
Neither is profile 1.1 compliant (secondary video encoder)
Almost twice the HD DVD players. My point made once again. BDP's must come down in price to become widely adopted.

Pat
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
But the BD players have the same 5 free discs and Amazon also had the 3 bonus BDs going for a while there also. Not sure what you mean by almost 2x the price, the A2/D2 are $299 and the A20 is $399.
 
W

wsiler

Enthusiast
Definitely an Xbox 360 HD DVD in my future...
$179 for the box that comes with King Kong. Mail in form for 5 free movies until end of October. Soooo.. HD DVD for less than $100 when you consider the free stuff? Sounds good to me....

Blu Ray may be the better technology but I predict HD DVD will rule....
And if not.... I spent $100 to enjoy a great looking stop gap....
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
But the BD players have the same 5 free discs and Amazon also had the 3 bonus BDs going for a while there also. Not sure what you mean by almost 2x the price, the A2/D2 are $299 and the A20 is $399.
I meant A2 $210, cheapest BDP $399.

Pat
 
E

Exit

Audioholic Chief
This poll and forum are about adoption of high definition DVD players and I have pointed out the obvious that it is the average consumer who will determine mass market acceptance that all A/V hobbyists are hoping for. Does anybody know the profile of mass market home theater buyers who might likely buy into high definition DVD? It would be interesting to see the demographics of the average home theater buyer or average consumer and how much they spend on home theater, if anyone has access to such information. Practically everyone has a DVD player now, but what about the rest of the HT system or more particularly the HDTV system?

What are average people buying? For example; how many average people are buying BOSE do you think? I know my brother, who is a successful attorney with money to burn, bought BOSE and it is set up all wrong. (He didn't talk to me first and I have never said anything about it.) My best friend at work has a BOSE system left from the previous owner of his house and he is perfectly happy. (I politely let him believe what he wants; why burst someone’s bubble when they are already committed to BOSE.) And how may people buy Monster cables? (Check out monoprice.com before you buy if you are not into fancy appearance versus function. Most cables set behind the equipment gathering dust, so what is the point of fancy appearance cables?)

How many people will buy into high definition DVD based on salesmanship and marketing (the latest and greatest thing) versus seeing the subtle improvements and knowing what they are really buying. Maybe the technology will go mass market despite my contention that there is not enough bang for the buck for the average person. There is a lot of technology and knowledge that goes into the home theater hobby (audio system set up and acoustics for example) that the average consumer is unaware of, but the average consumer may approach home theater buying like buying any other appliance. Maybe it will all depend on what Consumer Reports says about the new high definition DVD technologies. I can see Audioholics readers cringing already, especially the high end folks. Maybe relatively uninformed buyers will push the high definition technologies over the top for the benefit of A/V hobbyists.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
How much difference a person will notice between hi def and standard DVD is very much a function of screen size and viewing distance. I don't think I would notice on my 34" screen without practically sitting on top of it, and to see the difference on a 42" or 50" screen would likely require sitting closer than the typical 8'-10'.
 
W

wsiler

Enthusiast
How much difference a person will notice between hi def and standard DVD is very much a function of screen size and viewing distance. I don't think I would notice on my 34" screen without practically sitting on top of it, and to see the difference on a 42" or 50" screen would likely require sitting closer than the typical 8'-10'.
Sort of true.... I can say that viewing Chronicles of Riddick HD DVD on a 65 inch Mitsu at roughly 12 feet was extremely noticable. Armor and bronze statues had visible hammer marks and patina. Individual loose hairs on peoples heads and blemishes on faces showed up in a big way. Wisps of vapor and effects on the Elemental were highly defined. I would say that while a good TV is required to enjoy the true essence of HD DVD, the improvement is very obviously there and should be visible to anyone. Even a 34" screen will see noticable improvements when viewing the correct content (read as a HD DVD with a good transfer). Just my opinion....

Exit - I was thinking about some similar things yesterday and my guess is that audiophiles and enthusiast probably make up 5% of the market. (totally guessing) And they make purchases regardless of cost and based upon knowledge of the products. The main market is probably driven mostly by price, movie availability, and sales person BS when they hit their local Circuit City and ask for a "high def DVD player". You know these people as the ones that always ask you to come hook their stuff up.... :)

To me, as long as HD DVD keeps the equipment cost below BD, they are in the running to take the cake.
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
How much difference a person will notice between hi def and standard DVD is very much a function of screen size and viewing distance. I don't think I would notice on my 34" screen without practically sitting on top of it, and to see the difference on a 42" or 50" screen would likely require sitting closer than the typical 8'-10'.
HD cable vs. DVD is strikingly different to me on both my 32 inch LCD and 92 inch panny projector. I do not have HD DVD on the LCD, so I can't comment on that.

Pat
 
E

Exit

Audioholic Chief
Possible Salesmanship of High Definition DVD

I have been thinking a little more about how high definition DVD players might hypothetically be sold by retailers to the general public. High definition DVD players would be displayed at their very best while standard definition would be shown at its very worst for comparison. Standard DVD players and upscaling DVD players would be kept out of the equation all together and would be placed several isles away where they would not be seen and they would have no displays connected. They would not be presented as an alternative and, if mentioned by the customer, the salesman would probably say that it is old technology that provides a little bit better picture than standard TV but nowhere near as good as high definition DVD (some might say that’s true while others may disagree, but it probably would fly). There would be no means for a consumer to make a comparison between upscaling DVD and high definition DVD and judge for themselves in the store.

The display would be big enough to show off the details of 1080p high definition DVD but probably would be mid-priced so the average consumer would not think the picture is good because it is shown on a $10,000 flat screen. The display size would probably be mid-priced as well, probably 56”-61” and maybe a DLP because they sell for a little less in those sizes, but it also may be a flat panel because those seem to be more popular and the potential buyer might have one. The display selected would have excellent 1080p capabilities but poor standard TV upscaling ability.

The seating position would be optimized for close viewing of 1080p details while exaggerating the shortcomings of the lower standard definition picture quality on a big screen. The very best high definition DVDs would be used for comparison. The lowest quality cable or satellite channels would be used for comparision. Standard TV shows would be used instead of movies because movies seem to display better on crappy cable/satelite channels than standard programming. Prices might be justified as reasonable when compared against the full retail price of HD satelite systems (not accounting for the fact that satelite systems seldom sell at full retail and are usually much cheaper in a package deal.) The system would of course be connected with Monster cables, which would be presented as a necessary requirement for high definition DVD, and it would probably be the only cable option the store offers. Since many displays only have one HDMI connection and the consumer may have HD cable, HD satelite or an HD game counsole, the consumer may be sold a high-end HDMI switch, probably at $150-$200. (Monoprice has 4 and 5 position HDMI switches for about $45-$60.) In the comparison between standard TV and high definition DVD, the differences would be stunning.
 
supervij

supervij

Audioholic General
A little off-topic, but anyway . . . Exit, your comparison reminds me of the Future Shop "demonstrations" that show Mon$ter cables to be better than other cables: two identical screens, two identical DVD players, but one is hooked up with Mon$ter HDMI cable and the other is hooked up with a name brand composite cable. From this demonstration, the salesperson can easily show how Mon$ter cables are far superior to other cables. I, for one, did not care for the deception.

cheers,
supervij
 
A

allsop4now

Audioholic Intern
I need a new HD capable TV before it starts making sense to buy a HD-DVD player.

Where I live there are few stores where I can rent HD/BlueRay movies while just where I live I can rent SD movies. I own SD few movies quite simply because most movies are not worth seeing twice, and that does not change just because the movie is in HD.
 
E

Exit

Audioholic Chief
Deception, Salesmanship and Gaming in Stores

Supervij – I don’t like deception, salesmanship, gaming or whatever you want to call it either. It has been a part of the audio hobby at least since I first bought bookshelf loudspeakers as a teenager in the late 1960s. An educated buyer needs to be aware of how he/she may be manipulated in the showroom.

What I wrote about gaming high definition DVD is partly inspired by what I have seen in retail stores lately with a little fill-in-the blank projection. I have not shopped for a high definition DVD player, so some of that part is logical projection based on the general gaming principle of making one product look better than another. What I described is a manner in which this gaming may be done so readers can look for telltale signs.

The part about regular and upscaling DVD players being placed several isles over and out of sight of the high definition DVD players is based on actual observation. The part about there being no displays hooked up to the regular DVD and upscaling DVD players is based on observation. The part about Monster cables being the only cable choice in the store is actual observation. The part about the store only carrying high end HDMI switches for $200 is actual observation. The part about using the best high definition DVDs for demonstration is a logical given. The choice of a high quality HDTV is a logical given.

The hypothetical part is the comparison of high definition DVD to standard TV, using a HDTV with poor standard upscaling, the 1080p optimized seating position and the explanation of why there is no standard DVD and upscaling DVD for comparison.

As far as gaming goes, the auditioning of bookshelf loudspeakers in audio rooms is a good example. Did you ever hear a pair of speakers sound good in one store and bad in another and wonder why? The cursory explanation is that the acoustics are different. That’s actually true but it isn’t just the room acoustics that are different, there is a lot of intentional and possibly accidental gaming going on. I’ve seen a lot of situations where the speaker setup is a large part of the explanation. An audio dealer will push a given speaker or brand because they make more money on that product or product line. They may also have more favorable marketing arrangements with a certain brand. Some also pick up competitor brand speakers that they don’t even sell “just for comparison” and put them in their display for A/B comparison.

First louder generally sounds better so there has to be equal volume levels for a good comparison – this is not always done and more efficient speakers will play louder, thus skewing the comparison. Next there is speaker placement, which all regular Audioholics should know. The speakers being pushed will be set up in optimal room positions while the conpetition will be set up in some sub-optimal position. For subwoofers, optimized room setup has been widely discussed. A subwoofer setting a foot or two away from optimal may sound comparitively crapy. For bookshelf speakers, you need to go back to basic stereo setup. I’ve seen sound rooms with walls full of bookshelf loudspeakers. The speakers above or below ear height put the tweeters off axis vertically and sound comparatively worse than optimal position. If the speakers are facing flat front without proper toe in to the listening position, the placement on the wall forward or back can place tweeter off axis horizontally. Off axis tweeters lose the high end and sound bad in comparison to optimal position. Sub optimal placement also affects the soundstage. When you walk into a sound room and see a 12 foot tall wall of speakers, most of them are going to be in sub-optimal positions and you should be aware of this. I have seen audio stores set up like this. It doesn’t take too long to figure out what the dealer is pushing. About the only thing you can determine is that the brand of speaker being pushed sounds relatively good compared to everything else in the room in that particular setting. You can’t really determine much about the other brands that are set up sub-optimally. So what you really hear in audio stores can be significantly deceiving. The space for optimal speaker placement is not unlimited.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
Nope. Not buying either this season.

I'm going to wait till after the holiday season and look at the dual format players.
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
Almost twice the HD DVD players. My point made once again. BDP's must come down in price to become widely adopted.

Pat
The difference between 1080p players on Blu-ray and HD DVD is $15 right now.

With the alarming number of sets that cannot deinterlace properly I'd rather avoid interlacing altogether and just go with a 1080p player, in which case prices are the same but I have way more choice.

I'll take Denon, Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony, Philips, Sharp and Samsung any day in my home theater over Microsoft and Toshiba.
 

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