Def Tech bp7000sc with Klipsch Rf83's?

[avaserfi]

No, the spec says 11 Hz. But one of the magazine reviewers did not believe it, so he had the lab MEASURE the actual response, NOT the DefTech STATED response. So the magazine's lab measured the response and it came back as 12 Hz.

Edit: However, I agree that people can't hear below 20 Hz. Anything below 20 Hz can be "felt", but not heard. So whether it's 12 Hz or 19 Hz really doesn't make a difference anyway.

Funny how Deftech's site doesn't state the linearity of the frequency response...Just a range. I wonder what the realistic measurements are.

BP7000SC Specifications:
Dimensions: 8-15/16" W x 16-5/8" D x 52-1/2" H
Freq. Response: 11 Hz — 30 kHz
Nominal Impedance: Compatible with 8 ohms
Rec. Assoc. Amp.: 20 — 1000 Watts/channel
Efficiency: 92 dB
Finish: Piano-Gloss Black or Golden Cherry
Retail: $2499 ea.

http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/powertower/powertower.html#7000sc

Not trying to knock Deftech, but saying your speaker has that kind of range without giving a linearity is useless.

Edit: About the differing non-audible frequencies. They actually do matter because they will effect how the speaker acts thus changing sound quality in a different way. Yes, you might not be able to hear the 12hz, but you will feel it and it will effect how you hear other frequencies. Also, lower frequencies have different wavelengths which could effect how you feel them depending on room acoustics.

Also, I am not trying to knock deftech or anything, as they are a pretty reputable speaker company, but I am just trying to make people realize that just because there is a state spec it means nothing without the proper tools. In this case it is the little rating +/-Xdb. It is just like getting a sensitivity rating but not actually knowing that it is referring to 1watt per meter etc...

 

[sailingsearge]

Wow!

What a discussion! I struck a nerve!!!
Ok, Klipsch RF83 towers can keep up with the Def-Tech and vice-versa. The difference is the built-in powered sub. Thats the price and tech. difference. I know many people are going to mains for rear, so that was my question. Is the sound dynamic going to be drastically effected.
The Rf83's will be FAR superior in performance to some regular Def-Tech surrounds, but will it sound good. I will have to change or add a Def- Tech center to the mix if I do this.
As far as the store I am buying them from, when I secure my pair, I'll give up the info.
I got my Klipsch Rf-83's for 1699.00 total new, and I know I can sell them easily for that. I just love them! I have read crazy good reviews on the Def-Tech's, and I won't just put my Klipsch in the closet. If it wasn't such a good deal, I wouldn't even be asking this question.

 

[sailingsearge]

By the way

The new Def-Tech bp7000sc towers are 1800 watt output.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...Deftech's site doesn't state the linearity of the frequency response...Just a range. I wonder what the realistic measurements are...saying your speaker has that kind of range without giving a linearity is useless.

You have a point. At 11 Hz, it might not be very flat/linear at all----in other words----distorted at 11 Hz?

So with your speakers, do they give an actual linear measurement corresponding to the frequency response? Is it actually flat throught the entire frequency response, especially at the lower end?

 

[avaserfi]

You have a point. At 11 Hz, it might not be very flat/linear at all----in other words----distorted at 11 Hz?

So with your speakers, do they give an actual linear measurement corresponding to the frequency response? Is it actually flat throught the entire frequency response, especially at the lower end?

Not distorted necessarily, just not as loud or louder even. Generally the graph/data I am referring to is frequency on the X axis and DB on the Y. So you see if one frequency is louder/quieter than others. It is hard to believe and integrated sub, even a good one plays down to 11hz. So if the stats said 11hz-20,000hz +/- 3DB that would be very useful because you know those speakers are fairly linear. I have a feeling that the speakers in question might play to 11hz, but the frequency drop will likely be substantial compared to the rest of the response.

No, my speakers didn't have this information widely published, but I liked how they sounded and I called the company and got the information.

Here is an example of this type of graph (fairly linear): http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/images/mic-frequency-response1.gif

edit: AcuDefTechGuy: if you or anyone else would like more explanation on this subject feel free to PM me. I wouldn't like to hijack this thread too much more .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is hard to believe and integrated sub, even a good one plays down to 11hz. So if the stats said 11hz-20,000hz +/- 3DB that would be very useful because you know those speakers are fairly linear. I have a feeling that the speakers in question might play to 11hz, but the frequency drop will likely be substantial compared to the rest of the response.

You are right.
According to Home Theater Magazine lab, the BP7000SC response is 22 Hz at -3dB and 21 Hz at -6dB. So how good is that?

 

[avaserfi]

You are right.
According to Home Theater Magazine lab, the BP7000SC response is 22 Hz at -3dB and 21 Hz at -6dB. So how good is that?

The ranges would be more useful, not just single numbers, but you can probably guess that it continues to drop down rapidly while heading to lower frequencies. So they probably work well, but not as well as a stand alone sub . I would think they are fully capable full range speakers and would do well with low SPL especially in multiples.

 

[GlocksRock]

I think he should just dump the Klipsch, forget about the Def Techs, and just get one of those fancy new bose systems, we all know they are hands down better than all other speakers on the planet.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The ranges would be more useful, not just single numbers, but you can probably guess that it continues to drop down rapidly while heading to lower frequencies. So they probably work well, but not as well as a stand alone sub . I would think they are fully capable full range speakers and would do well with low SPL especially in multiples.

Just FYI from Home Theater Magzine Lab:
DefTech BP7000SC $2,500-- 22 Hz (-3dB)
Velodyne DD-12 Subwoofer $3,000-- 23 Hz (-3dB)
Velodyne CHT-10 Subwoofer $500-- 32 Hz (-3dB)
Canton AS 120 Subwoofer $1,000-- 27 Hz (-3dB)
Vienna Acoustics REL R-305 Subwoofer $1,600-- 25 Hz (-3dB)
B&W PV1 Subwoofer $1,500-- 47 Hz (-3dB)
M&K MX-350 THX Subwoofer $1,800-- 23 Hz (-3dB)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think he should just dump the Klipsch, forget about the Def Techs, and just get one of those fancy new bose systems, we all know they are hands down better than all other speakers on the planet.

I second that motion!

Heck, the Bose probably has an awesome bass response all the way down to 100 Hz (-3dB)!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just FYI from Home Theater Magzine Lab:
DefTech BP7000SC $2,500-- 22 Hz (-3dB)
Velodyne DD-12 Subwoofer $3,000-- 23 Hz (-3dB)
Velodyne CHT-10 Subwoofer $500-- 32 Hz (-3dB)
Canton AS 120 Subwoofer $1,000-- 27 Hz (-3dB)
Vienna Acoustics REL R-305 Subwoofer $1,600-- 25 Hz (-3dB)
B&W PV1 Subwoofer $1,500-- 47 Hz (-3dB)
M&K MX-350 THX Subwoofer $1,800-- 23 Hz (-3dB)
Earthquake Sound SuperNova MKIV-12P $1,700-- 37 Hz (-3dB)

Edit: I guess I should say that the subwoofer response is normalized to 80 Hz. So for example, the Velodyne DD-12 is +/-3dB from 23-80Hz. The Vienna Acoustics R-305 is +/-3dB from 25-80Hz. The MX-350 is +/-3dB from 23-80Hz.

The BP7000SC is +/-3dB from 22Hz-20kHz.

So compared to these subwoofers costing up to $1,800, the BP7000SC is very, very good.

However, compared to the $3,300 JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer (+/-3dB from 18-80Hz), the BP7000SC is not quite as good in terms of the subwoofer section.

But here is the question: TWO BP7000SCs (22Hz) versus ONE F113 (18Hz) in terms of subwoofer output?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

B&W PV1 Subwoofer $1,500 (+/-3dB from 47-80 Hz)
Earthquake SuperNova MKIV-12P $1,700 (+/-3dB from 37-80 Hz)

I can't believe the expensive subs from B&W & SuperNova can't even beat the subwoofer of the Center Speaker CLR3000 (+/-3dB from 37-20 kHz).

So what is the Linear (+/-3dB) Frequency Response of the Klipsch RF83?

 

[AVRat]

sailingsearge, have you heard the DTs? If you love the Klipsch, you may hate the DTs, different sound. It may be better for you to purchase the dual subs. How big is your space?

 

[sailingsearge]

Space

I heard the DT's, and I enjoyed the sound. However, it was in a bigger room.
My room is 15'x22' with a standard ceiling.
I was first going for two of the HSU's, or SVS's, and adding more surround speakers. I just thought the price (3000.00)for these would give me two subs (theoretically) two large rears (the Klipsch), use my two rears to make a 7.1 configuration.

 

[GlocksRock]

Even if you get the Def Techs and don't like them, I don't think you would have too hard a time selling them for what you bought them for... shipping them to someone would be another issue though, as I know they are huge speakers, and very heavy as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I heard the DT's, and I enjoyed the sound. However, it was in a bigger room.
My room is 15'x22' with a standard ceiling.
I was first going for two of the HSU's, or SVS's, and adding more surround speakers. I just thought the price (3000.00)for these would give me two subs (theoretically) two large rears (the Klipsch), use my two rears to make a 7.1 configuration.
"wish list: 2 subs, 4 more rears, and another center"

Wow, so you want a total of 6 rear speakers, 2 center speakers, and 2 subs.

You thought about just getting 1 more Klipsch RC-52 Center + 4 more Klipsch RB-61 Rears + 2 Klipsch RSW-10Ds (Dual 10-inch 500-watt Powered Subwoofer Frequency Response: 24-120Hz +/-3dB)?



http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=33006

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Sailing,

Why are you using a RC-52 with your 83's? What you really need to do is sell your RC-52 and replace it with a RC-64. Dual center speakers is never the way to go unless you're into the whole Frankenstein thing....LOL

By no means is the RC-52 a bad center speaker, but the RC-64 will put it to shame by comparison. It will take your theater experience to a whole new level, plus......it's made specifically to go with your fronts.

 

[sailingsearge]

Rc-52

I had to save for the rc-64, so I bought this center temp. I eventually want the 9.1 that my system was intended for.
Maybe I should use the Def-Tech's for rears, and buy two subs for the front! That would be crazy!!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I had to save for the rc-64, so I bought this center temp. I eventually want the 9.1 that my system was intended for.
Maybe I should use the Def-Tech's for rears, and buy two subs for the front! That would be crazy!!!!

A pair of DefTech BP7000SCs for the rears? That is crazy.
I wouldn't mix and match, but if you are set on mixing them, I would definitely use the BP7000SCs for the Front L/R. The subwoofer of the BP7000SC (22Hz-20kHz +/- 3dB) will even beat the $3,000 Velodyne subwoofer DD-12 (23Hz-80Hz +/- 3dB). If you have the BP7000SC, you will not need another subwoofer. If you want the best Center Speaker out there, get the matching DefTech CLR-3000 (37Hz-20kHz +/- 3dB), which also has a built-in 150-watts RMS subwoofer, which will outperform the $1,500 B&W PV1 Subwoofer (47Hz-80Hz +/-3dB). So there, you will have 3 subwoofers in the front. Sell the R-52 Center and use the rest of the Klipschs for your surrounds.

Edit: Well, okay. Numbers probably don't tell the whole picture I should stop posting all these numbers. How they actually sound when combined with your room acoustics and equipment really determines how they will end up sounding. Do you have a local store that will let you audition for free?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe I should use the Def-Tech's for rears...

Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy 8---- $27,900 (21Hz-22kHz, +0/-3dB)
Wilson Audio Sophia ----------- $11,000 (29Hz-22kHz, +0/-3dB)
Martin Logan Summit -----------$10,000 (24Hz-23kHz, +/-3dB)
Magnepan MG20.1 -------------$12,500 (25Hz-40kHz, +/-3dB)
Def Tech BP7000SC------------ $ 5,000 (22Hz-20kHz, +/-3dB)
Klipsch RF-83------------------ $ 2,500 (29Hz-21kHz +/-3dB)

And you want to use the BP7000SC for your rear surround sound?
Actually, the Klipsch spec. looks pretty good. Do you really even need a subwoofer? The bass spec looks even better than the B&W PV1 Subwoofer, Velodyne CHT-10 Subwoofer, and the Earthquake SuperNova MKIV-12 subwoofer!

Edit: Again, these numbers most likely don't tell the whole story. That would be too simple. But BP7000SC for rear surrounds?