New SongTower speakers

Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I pulled the trigger today on some new floorstanding speakers. Salk Sound has recently introduced a new speaker, the SongTower QWT. It is a floor standing MTM speaker that combines two excellent Seas CA15RLY 5¼" midwoofers, and a simply outstanding ¾" dome tweeter, a Hiquophon OWII.

These are the least expensive speakers in the Salk line, but for me, a confirmed DIY guy (or so I thought), these "budget" speakers are the most I would ever consider paying for a commercially made high-end speaker. At $1,500 a pair, I think these speakers have no competition. There will soon be a home theater “Song Series” with a matching center channel, rear channel speakers, and a subwoofer. I hear that they may be announced soon.

Instead of putting these drivers in a sealed or vented cabinet, they come in a transmission line cabinet. Transmission line design, although it has been around for some time, was new to me. This cabinet design has always been said to allow floor standing speakers to exhibit greater bass extension than a vented design would normally allow. But some of these were difficult to build because they involved folded interior chambers. More importantly, a successful transmission line cabinet required trial and error and lot of luck. In contrast, sealed or vented cabinets have been well enough understood since the early 1970s that many plug-in math formulas exist to aid in their design. Until recently no similar method existed to predict or model the bass response of transmission line cabinets. Thanks to the pioneering work of Martin King, this is now more easily understood and accomplished. Still, there very few TL cabinet speakers available commercially.

When I first heard the new MTMs, I simply could not believe that two 5¼" woofers could produce such bass. To say that "a transmission line cabinet allows a floor-standing speaker to exhibit greater bass extension than a ported design would normally allow" understates what I experienced. The effortless bass of these speakers seemed to defy the laws of physics. What's more, the sound differed to my ears, from that of either a low-Q sealed woofer or a properly designed ported woofer. Without a better way to describe it, a transmission line produces a third type of bass sound that sounds superior in quality and quantity.

The SongTower’s designer, described this exceptional bass response somewhat better than I can. “Martin King's scientific approach to transmission lines really has made the difference. And the benefits of his work aren't limited to bass quantity and quality. Before Martin King really figured out how to model TL's, this type of bass loading often generated higher order harmonics that severely colored midrange reproduction. That was a complete waste, since a long damped line held out the potential to dissipate the back wave from a woofer and reduce colorations over its operating range. Martin figured out how to achieve the bass benefits of TL loading while eliminating its negative effects in the midrange. As a result, a design that is optimized according to his calculations achieves superior bass and midrange clarity.”

These rather easily driven MTM speakers are flat ± 3 dB from 40 to 20,000 Hz. They have an 8" × 11.5" footprint, and they sound to die for! :D
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I've only heard a single transmission line speaker, from Role Audio. To be honest, I wasn't impressed with it. But given Salk's reputation and the quality of components and knowledge that go into his speakers, I have little doubt that they are superb. I haven't heard a Salk speaker yet, but I would sure like to.
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
Well since I was in the room next to Swerd, we heard the same stuff so I'll keep my comments short. I shopped in the $1500-2000/pair range in 2003 and listened to a lot of stuff available in brick and mortar stores (Vandersteen 2ce, Monitor audio silver9, NHT, Meadowlark) and all were missing something or had a noticeable flaw. The Song Towers have none at least for music. The bass is as said very surprising for such small drivers, mid range clear off axis response better than usual for the few MTM designs I've heard. To beat these speakers I think you would have to spend twice as much or more retail. They also are not too demanding on an amplifier which is a nice plus as well. Beautiful woodwork is a Salk given for high WAF.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I've only heard a single transmission line speaker, from Role Audio. To be honest, I wasn't impressed with it. But given Salk's reputation and the quality of components and knowledge that go into his speakers, I have little doubt that they are superb. I haven't heard a Salk speaker yet, but I would sure like to.
The only other TL speaker I've heard was a Meadlowlark Kestrel a number of years ago. Just like you, I wasn't at all impressed. It lacked bass, and it cost about $2500 if I remember correctly.

That may be why I was so impressed with the Songtowers. I also have a pair of bookshelf 2-way speakers made with the same two drivers. It is in a small vented cabinet. (It's a DIY design, made by Dennis Murphy, see CAOW1 below in my signature line.) They produce bass down to about 50 Hz, and then rapidly drop below that. When I first heard ths Songtowers, Dennis used an electronic tone generator to show that they could rattle windows and doors in his house at 38 Hz.

Here is the frequency response curve from 200 to 20,000 Hz.


Its as flat as I've ever seen. The crossover frequency is about 2600 Hz.

Jim Salk is located just oustide of Detroit, in Oakland, Michigan. That's not too far away for you.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Hey Dan, thanks for your extra words while I try to convert those who can't hear these speakers.

For all those readers who don't know, Dan & I are brothers, who share an audio addiction.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
I have been following some of the doings at Salk for years. (I wonder if they feel 'stalked'?! ;)) Dennis Murphy and Jim Salk make up a pretty terrific team of speaker builders. The birth of the SongTowers is more or less documented over at Audiocircles in the Salk Circle.

Please, Swerd, give us a reasoned and comparative review when you get them set up. (I still think they should have named the speaker Salk Acuity. :)) Congrats, you lucky dawg.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Jim Salk is located just oustide of Detroit, in Oakland, Michigan. That's not too far away for you.
I actually placed Salk's Ellis 1801's on my short list of speakers to audition based on size, price, reputation and the quality of finish that I could see in photos. I'm leaving the door open to getting a set of Salks if I ever get the chance to get over for a visit, but there is no rush at this point.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
Is the tweeter on the Salk Veracity line a ribbon tweeter?
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
Definitive Technology BP series towers are a transmission line design. The quantity and quality of bass that they put out is utterly incredible for the size of the drivers and cabinets.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
Ahh ok. I was wondering if it is possible for a person to be for a lack of better words "allergic to metal dome tweeters". I have listened to a lot of speakers in recent months and I have always found that all the ones with metal tweeters after serious listening would kind of hurt my ears. It wasn't like searing pain just uncomfortable. On my current speakers I had to turn down the treble on the eq to fix the problem. The only speakers that I could hear that didn't give me that sensation were ones made with ribbon tweeters (Dali Ikon, Mentor) and there doesn't seem to be many manufacturers that use ribbon tweeters. Everyone seems to use some sort of metal.

What are ribbon tweeters made out of?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Ohh ok hmm that's strange. I wish I could find more brands that use ribbon tweeters so that I could test some more.
We all do :).

Ribbon tweeters are a completely different technology than dome tweeters and most if not all are a lot more expensive.

What were the speakers that bothered your ears. I've found that it is often a metal coned midwoofer, improperly filtered by the crossover network, and not a metal tweeter that was the culprit for listeners' fatique.
 
S

silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
This is just a generalization, but ribbon tweeters are notorious for thier distortion. To some, this distortion adds something to the sound that is pleasant.

Metal dome tweeters often have ringing at higher frequencies. This ringing may be inaudilble, but still may have an effect on your ears and bother them.

I have not heard any Salks before, but I do admire the cabinet work.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
We all do :).

Ribbon tweeters are a completely different technology than dome tweeters and most if not all are a lot more expensive.

What were the speakers that bothered your ears. I've found that it is often a metal coned midwoofer, improperly filtered by the crossover network, and not a metal tweeter that was the culprit for listeners' fatique.
Let's see the ones that were probably the worst after a while were B&W (only one where it isn't bad is the 800 series), but all these others bothered me after a while as well: Paradigm Studio, PSB Platinum, Mirage Omnisat v2, Vienna Acoustics Haydn, Definitive Technology SM and BP. I've been trying to go and listen to Monitor Audio, Sonus Faber, and Revel but I'm afraid it will just be more of the same.

Why can't there be more ribbon manufacturers!!! :(
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Wow you have been doing some serious searching. That is a long list of disappointments.

Here is an example that I hope shows what I'm trying to say. First is a raw frequency response curve for a good quality 1" metal dome tweeter. Scroll over to the top right of that page and enlarge it to at least 125%. It is pretty smooth from 2 to 20 kHz. Above 20 kHz its a mess, but you would be a dog and not human if your ears could hear that.

Now here is a raw frequency response curve for a good quality 6.5" metal midwoofer. Scroll over to the top right again and enlarge. See those nasty peaks above 6 kHz? Unless they are completely supressed by a steep crossover and maybe also a trap filter, you will hear that noise and think it must be caused by the tweeter. This is not limited to only metal coned midwoofers, I've seen some stiffer Kevlar or carbon fiber woofers with similar problems. Usually paper and other less stiff woofers don't suffer from this kind of problem.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
Wow you have been doing some serious searching. That is a long list of disappointments.

Here is an example that I hope shows what I'm trying to say. First is a raw frequency response curve for a good quality 1" metal dome tweeter. Scroll over to the top right of that page and enlarge it to at least 125%. It is pretty smooth from 2 to 20 kHz. Above 20 kHz its a mess, but you would be a dog and not human if your ears could hear that.

Now here is a raw frequency response curve for a good quality 6.5" metal midwoofer. Scroll over to the top right again and enlarge. See those nasty peaks above 6 kHz? Unless they are completely supressed by a steep crossover and maybe also a trap filter, you will hear that noise and think it must be caused by the tweeter. This is not limited to only metal coned midwoofers, I've seen some stiffer Kevlar or carbon fiber woofers with similar problems. Usually paper and other less stiff woofers don't suffer from this kind of problem.
Ok thanks for the great info. So why would you say that the only two speakers I listened to which didn't bother me had ribbon tweeters? There has to be something wrong with me because all those speakers can't have bad crossovers.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
So why would you say that the only two speakers I listened to which didn't bother me had ribbon tweeters?
I was only trying to illustrate a point how an insufficiently filtered woofer could make noise at a far higher frequency than its crossover point. In my example, the crossover would probably be around 2 kHz. Many people wrongly assume that a shiney tweeter must sound bright.

It could very well be that you really are sensitive to some unpleasant sound created by metal dome tweeters and not by ribbon tweeters. Do you ever experience the same with fabric dome tweeters?

There has to be something wrong with me because all those speakers can't have bad crossovers.
Seriously, you'd be surprised how many commercial speakers skimp on the crossovers.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
I was only trying to illustrate a point how an insufficiently filtered woofer could make noise at a far higher frequency than its crossover point. In my example, the crossover would probably be around 2 kHz. Many people wrongly assume that a shiney tweeter must sound bright.

It could very well be that you really are sensitive to some unpleasant sound created by metal dome tweeters and not by ribbon tweeters. Do you ever experience the same with fabric dome tweeters?

Seriously, you'd be surprised how many commercial speakers skimp on the crossovers.
I just started to get really into home audio, especially 2ch so I don't know which speakers use fabric dome tweeters.
 
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