Thoughts on my next subs....

[Matt34]

I've got your next subwoofer for you. It's going to perform, and should be sexy enough for you.

The BMF

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=13824

That's a good choice or Mark Seaton's very own Submersive.

 

[dem beats]

warp. what is your budget for a sub project. I consider myself a drive afficianado.

and how much power do you want to put to it?

I am planning on a 50 cube dual 18 box comming up soon. With any luck i'll be in the 100deebee range at 14hz.

top secret project though.

shhhhhh.

 

[Warpdrv]

Howdy Mazer... That BMF does look like an amazing looking sub... I kinda have overlooked that sub, as all that back and forth of people B-tching about when it would actually be released... and to tell the truth... Im in absolutely no hurry... 2 of those in my room would be no slouch from what I have been reading. And by the sounds of what Mark Seaton has to say, its quite the amazing performer... Not only is it beautiful but its the size a a couple of subs I can see for my Room.

Hey there dem beats - Ultimately I would have been putting aside a touch more then $3K for the Dual Ultra 13's here... But I have been going through the DIY forums a bit and seeing what I could actually get going here... Size really isn't a constraint here, as I have plenty of room....and I Like the experimenting that "The Ear" is doing with his DIY projects, and was curious if I could acomplish somewhat the same thing here..

Whether it was 2 - 15" TC-3000's in a ported box or 2 15" TC-LMS5400's in a sealed box.... Or maybe I should be looking at putting together box's with Dual TC3000's and Quad Passive Radiators in each box... I was really trying to mimic the Down Firing configuration that SVS has in the Plus/2 Plus, and Ultra box's... As I think its a beautiful looking layout... A very nice furniture style that fits in my house.. Looks to me are everything, Im sorry, but you won't find big ugly looking pair of subs that have the drivers facing out in my house ever... I like the hidden beast that is lurking just below the waves if you will... Much like the ocean, and that great white shark coming to pounce on the unsuspecting seals...

 

[dem beats]

Howdy Mazer... That BMF does look like an amazing looking sub... I kinda have overlooked that sub, as all that back and forth of people B-tching about when it would actually be released... and to tell the truth... Im in absolutely no hurry... 2 of those in my room would be no slouch from what I have been reading. And by the sounds of what Mark Seaton has to say, its quite the amazing performer... Not only is it beautiful but its the size a a couple of subs I can see for my Room.

Hey there dem beats - Ultimately I would have been putting aside a touch more then $3K for the Dual Ultra 13's here... But I have been going through the DIY forums a bit and seeing what I could actually get going here... Size really isn't a constraint here, as I have plenty of room....and I Like the experimenting that "The Ear" is doing with his DIY projects, and was curious if I could acomplish somewhat the same thing here..

Whether it was 2 - 15" TC-3000's in a ported box or 2 15" TC-LMS5400's in a sealed box.... Or maybe I should be looking at putting together box's with Dual TC3000's and Quad Passive Radiators in each box... I was really trying to mimic the Down Firing configuration that SVS has in the Plus/2 Plus, and Ultra box's... As I think its a beautiful looking layout... A very nice furniture style that fits in my house.. Looks to me are everything, Im sorry, but you won't find big ugly looking pair of subs that have the drivers facing out in my house ever... I like the hidden beast that is lurking just below the waves if you will... Much like the ocean, and that great white shark coming to pounce on the unsuspecting seals...

I love the analagy you have at the end there! It's wonderfull.

3K is one HECK of a budget. I think you could create more headroom you could ever want depending on how you amplify. I am of the of the more drivers in massive box theory. I hve not heard an IB however... I just don't see the theory being put into action well.

If you want a gorgious manageable box, I would use smaller drivers. No SPL won't be as high as low but I can garuntee it will blow anything you have ever seen or heard out of the water. Look into 12" woofers and make a passive box and use a verry strong AMP.

Are you looking for extreme low extension or just visceral punch and pound... like say what you might get from a PB plus 2?

 

[Warpdrv]

I love the analagy you have at the end there! It's wonderfull.

Are you looking for extreme low extension or just visceral punch and pound... like say what you might get from a PB plus 2?

Its so funny watching those little seals in my house...

I really should post some pics of my setup, now that its pretty well done....

Im looking for the all across the board scenario.... Scary Low end extention as well as articulation with mid bass punch.... Pretty much what I got right now...
Just Cleaner... That BMF looks very interesting, quite a unique design...
Internally driven 15" with 3 - 18'" Passive Radiators that provide the secondary responce.. Cool... Can't wait to hear the reviews..

Its nice to be in a position of having basically what I need, so I can sit on the sidelines and wait it out on reviews... Alot of good commercial products coming to fruition in the next few months... thats promising...

 

[dem beats]

well i think the PR rout might be the best way to go. TC sounds has some awesome options.

I am going to be building a large dual 18" enclosure I think with the same goals in mind. I might even do some masive horn... but in the end I think K.I.S.S. is the most important factor.

WHere can I see this BMF and mark seatons sub?

I would like to see those.

 

[Matt34]

well i think the PR rout might be the best way to go. TC sounds has some awesome options.

I am going to be building a large dual 18" enclosure I think with the same goals in mind. I might even do some masive horn... but in the end I think K.I.S.S. is the most important factor.

WHere can I see this BMF and mark seatons sub?

I would like to see those.

Seaton's Submersive...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=759877

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/5543-submersive-has-landed.html

Onix/Seaton BMF... (Edit seems av123.com is down for maintenance)

 

[Warpdrv]

Just got an email back from TC sounds, and I was discussing ideas about a downfiring sealed sub with 15" LMS's, and he frowned upon the idea of mounting those drivers upside down, siting long term effects on the drivers.

The Only other way I could see to do it, would be to make an enclosure like the BMF with a single front firing driver, and 2 passive's on the sides... with grills on.. I doubt I could make something as pretty as that BMF, but reading up on the submersive really makes you wonder how 2 of those would be in my huge-mungous room... but not the most beautiful looking subs...
Not sure the size of this room, but WOW.... 100db at 16hz... 125db at 36hz...
Yikes...

Here is his offical site... http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/seatonsound

 

[Swerd]

Here is a general way to estimate if a subwoofer is suitable for downfiring mounting.

http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/downfire.html

 

[Warpdrv]

Thanks Swerd... appreciate that link....

I have been doing alot of reading, and Im looking at a few different options...
As I have already stated, that I am in no hurry... so therefore time is on my side... It won't be very long and the results and testing measurements will be coming out for SVS Ultra 13, and hopefully the BMF-1 will start coming closer to completion. I can't imagine that Mark Seaton will want this lingering on forever... I was hoping to hear new news sometime soon...
Even in his own words the BMF will almost equal his own Submersive... Thats quite an impressive statement to make...

But I guess I think that I am mostly leaning towards a DIY scenario, implementing a pair of Subs that somewhat mimic in the looks dept of my current SVS subs...

I was thinking I might go in the direction of what Jcomp124 did on a touch of a smaller scale... with 15" driver and dual passive radiators.... from T.C.Sounds in each cabinet.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=860957&page=1&pp=30

But I seriously have to lock down all the variables involved to jump into that arena to comply with my idea's in the Looks dept...

 

[dem beats]

Thanks Swerd... appreciate that link....

I have been doing alot of reading, and Im looking at a few different options...
As I have already stated, that I am in no hurry... so therefore time is on my side... It won't be very long and the results and testing measurements will be coming out for SVS Ultra 13, and hopefully the BMF-1 will start coming closer to completion. I can't imagine that Mark Seaton will want this lingering on forever... I was hoping to hear new news sometime soon...
Even in his own words the BMF will almost equal his own Submersive... Thats quite an impressive statement to make...

But I guess I think that I am mostly leaning towards a DIY scenario, implementing a pair of Subs that somewhat mimic in the looks dept of my current SVS subs...

I was thinking I might go in the direction of what Jcomp124 did on a touch of a smaller scale... with 15" driver and dual passive radiators.... from T.C.Sounds in each cabinet.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=860957&page=1&pp=30

But I seriously have to lock down all the variables involved to jump into that arena to comply with my idea's in the Looks dept...

If you want to keep it small.... do something like Jai.

If you want DIY I would go that way. Honestly... :jumps into flame retardant suit: .. I think most of new thoughts on Bass are old Hat. The best way to get low is many drivers in a big box and horn enclosure with much watts. The passive radiator idea is pretty cool. I have never seen it work in action in a worth while scame just some itty bitty HTIB type woofers. I have a feeling though... it's a fad. The IB type is a cool idea but you're missin quite a bit of SPL I think Vs a big box in the room. I plan on making my box a work of art and part of the room integrated somehow and done up all sexy like. Maybe even go with that sexy ultra high gloss... or even... maybe.. rhino coat... mmm sexy

 

[Warpdrv]

I just think doing the Passive is another alternative maybe easier to porting...
To get down low its takes a big box... with alot of port tubes... Now I have no problem with a big box, but if its easier to adjust your tuning with a passive speaker by adding or subtracting washers.. cool and you can effectively eliminate port chuffing as well at the same time...

Im really interested in hearing more peoples results on it...

 

[dem beats]

I can say this a biiiig box with big ports = no chuffing.

You can tun big and not have that chuff chuff sound.

You could do a horn style with wouldn't allow for chuffing.

I am verry interest in the PR set up but I can't see the cost to be worth while. It just doesn't work out right in my mind. That's a set back probably though. It might get performance unlike anything else... but I guess I see it as more moving parts?

 

[Warpdrv]

Im not totally against spending the extra money for the passives if the SQ is there.. But you are correct with the Large Box, there is room for a large port...

Its not that much for the passive drivers though... and wouldn't be all that difficult to implement into a box design....

That one guy had good luck with his design, although IMO a touch under built, that wouldn't be the case for me...

Well I still have alot of research to do on something like this, so more reading to be done...

Has anyone heard of any more BMF-1 news..? Im intrigued by this design, so looking for more input..

 

[mazersteven]

I see I caught your attention with the BMF. LOL

 

[Warpdrv]

Well I am going to experiment with building my own boxes... I don't think I can go wrong for the price... Im going to get a couple of these 15" TC-2000 drivers, and grab 4 15" passive when they become avail...

But they are raising the prices on all their drivers and today is the last day to snap them up...

 

[Warpdrv]

Well its official, I pulled the trigger on 2 TC-2000 subs tonight, and I will start the DIY scenario... I don't have alot of time right now, but At least I can start the process, and figure out what Im gunna build...

I guess its time to figure out which way I should go with my box, and maybe someone can model and possibly design a couple different box scenarios for me...
CNC machine is available....

Box size is adjustable.. bigger is fine.
I Like the shape of my SVS-Plus 2, even a touch bigger in those dimensions is OK.
Somewhere around 20wx26hx28... can be a bit larger.. I want a really thick enclosure, which could possibly be made with 3/4 MDF and possibly Hardwood as the outside 1" to 1.5" thick? Shooting for furniture grade... Weight is no issue...

2 possible scenarios here, I was assuming I was going with the TC-VMP's passives unless there are other alternatives.....

1) Box's with TC2K and a single Passive 18"

2) Box's with TC2K and dual Passive 15"

 

[dem beats]

Well its official, I pulled the trigger on 2 TC-2000 subs tonight, and I will start the DIY scenario... I don't have alot of time right now, but At least I can start the process, and figure out what Im gunna build...

I guess its time to figure out which way I should go with my box, and maybe someone can model and possibly design a couple different box scenarios for me...
CNC machine is available....

Box size is adjustable.. bigger is fine.
I Like the shape of my SVS-Plus 2, even a touch bigger in those dimensions is OK.
Somewhere around 20wx26hx28... can be a bit larger.. I want a really thick enclosure, which could possibly be made with 3/4 MDF and possibly Hardwood as the outside 1" to 1.5" thick? Shooting for furniture grade... Weight is no issue...

2 possible scenarios here, I was assuming I was going with the TC-VMP's passives unless there are other alternatives.....

1) Box's with TC2K and a single Passive 18"

2) Box's with TC2K and dual Passive 15"

Warp. I love how you are keeping your options open!

I am also looking for abox design. I would definately go for a Passive set up. I would think dual 15" always over single 18" but again more driver = more kick-buttness in my mind!
=D

I think you should ask for some help from the guys at TC for help they know boxes for the PR's really well. They helped me out allot. I just decided a different rout. The box won't be too big I wouldn't think.

Again I am thinking a couch sized box.... So different aproach. I would asume the PR style is pretty simple. I like the cube idea where the drivers are opposing (like north and south on a compas) and the PR's are the other opposing walls(like east and west). I would gues this would mean verry little motion on the box. I bet it would rock your socks off!

The cost of PR's is worth it's weight in not having to build/design a port and calculate it and not having to deal with flares!

 

[Warpdrv]

Thanks dem beats....

Im shooting for somewhat of an SVS look-alike... Im even going to do a riser like they do for a Down Firing sub... using spun alluminum or stainless steel spacers for asthetics... I think its going to be pretty cool...

I agree with you... modeling for big ports seems like it would be a hassle, and your right, as soon as I saw how much of a pain in the A$$ making those flares would be I said screw it... Although I have a lathe and it would be too much trouble... But again... No Thanks...

I have it stuck in my mind that I will be counter sinking the Drivers kinda deep to get that flat look... with a minimum amount of grill size......

I guess we'll see how It models and the ideas come together...

 

[dem beats]

Thanks dem beats....

Im shooting for somewhat of an SVS look-alike... Im even going to do a riser like they do for a Down Firing sub... using spun alluminum or stainless steel spacers for asthetics... I think its going to be pretty cool...

I agree with you... modeling for big ports seems like it would be a hassle, and your right, as soon as I saw how much of a pain in the A$$ making those flares would be I said screw it... Although I have a lathe and it would be too much trouble... But again... No Thanks...

I have it stuck in my mind that I will be counter sinking the Drivers kinda deep to get that flat look... with a minimum amount of grill size......

I guess we'll see how It models and the ideas come together...

AWesome. I think yours sounds like more coolness than mine will be...

I also had a financial set back the past few days and lost some money in a buisness adventure.. it happens. I've more than trippled before and lost it all before oh well.

Anyway, I may end up doing a single 18" desgin instead which would make me real real sad... but would save me hundreds of dollars and lots of GAF.

I may be living through you!

=)

Don't forget to keep us posted on the build. If I do my project you will see mine up all the time. I think I will be using a massive flared SQUARE/SLOT (yup they can be flared.. though it sucks) port or a fancy pants horn style. we shall see.

You're sounds more sexy, mine is to be more scary. I'm hoping to make one of the cats urinate themselves, it will be worth the clean up.