VH1 Rock (Dis)honors Genesis?

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admin

Audioholics Robot
Staff member
Tonight VH1 aired their 2007 Rock honors show which featured legendary bands Heart, ZZ Top, Genesis and Ozzy Osborne. Being a huge Genesis fan, I decisively focused my show report on their performance and the coverage or lack there of on VH1. I wrote this article a bit steamed that VH1 cut Genesis finest performance of the night, and the powers that be chose Keane as their tribute band, and that Phil’s mic seemed to be a dB or 2 too low, but I will get over it. Life will go on, and I will keep on rocking.


Discuss "VH1 Rock (Dis)honors Genesis?" here. Read the article.
 
Man, you weren't kidding. They had Phil at like 3dB too low at least. He's always used tons of processing live - I honestly think he's mostly a studio singer (meaning his voice doesn't hold up well live). That's not a dig - it's stinking hard to sing live for a full set, let alone more than one...

If I had to guess, I think their mixer was trying to protect him (under direction from Phil), making me wonder if his voice wasn't 100% that night to begin with.
 
G

genesis471

Audioholic
I watched tonight to in anticipation of them playing Los Endos. F*ing VH1 though had to let us down! Thank god they put it on the web at least. I really like they way they played. Listening to Los Endos tonight made me pull out a few different versions of it, live and studio. They really did a fantastic job bringing back life to the studio version I think. Don't get me wrong, I think the Invisible Touch tour version kicks some serious ***, but it sounds a little modernized too. They can play!

Some other points I will make. I really feel that the band was out of their realm at the VH1 event. None of them really looked comfortable, and they have never liked playing in front of a tv audience (not to be compared to a live show of theirs being filmed). The band was a fish out of water at that event. To top it off, they haven't played for 15 years and have hardly rehearsed.

Turn it on Again did sound strange a bit with the lower bar(s). Also I have read (from people that went to the event) that they had all kinds of technical problems, and Phil was pissed off. Guarantee this won't happen at their own shows.

No Son of Mine to me sounded great. They played it in the original key.. but back to the issue of the Mic, it made Phil's vocals sound muddy a bit.

I am anxious as a lot of folks are to see them on tour. I have already seen some behind the scenes of the production, and they are suppose to show more of it tomorrow. The stage is going to be huge. The lights are going to be plenty, and the setlist is going to be awesome.

Yes, I was a bit disappointed in the VH1 airing, but ZZTop stunk if you ask me, so did Ozzy. Keane stunk badly yes. Heart kicked some serious ***, and so did their tribute. Quite honestly, I don't think Genesis really cared to be there, and I guess it showed.

Mike
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
If I had to guess, I think their mixer was trying to protect him (under direction from Phil), making me wonder if his voice wasn't 100% that night to begin with.
Bingo, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Some other points I will make. I really feel that the band was out of their realm at the VH1 event. None of them really looked comfortable, and they have never liked playing in front of a tv audience (not to be compared to a live show of theirs being filmed). The band was a fish out of water at that event. To top it off, they haven't played for 15 years and have hardly rehearsed.
Agreed, Tony and Mike looked so stiff. They aren't the partying type of people and perhaps it was a bit overwhelming to them. Daryl told me they tour with their families and they don't trash their hotel rooms like most rock bands do, their kids do :)

Yes, I was a bit disappointed in the VH1 airing, but ZZTop stunk if you ask me, so did Ozzy. Keane stunk badly yes. Heart kicked some serious ***, and so did their tribute. Quite honestly, I don't think Genesis really cared to be there, and I guess it showed.
Agreed ZZTop was terrible but their tribute band rocked. Ozzy was soso and Keane was a disgrace IMO.

Mike, I will remain optimistic, especially in light of what you just reported here. Though, I wonder if I will still get that interview with Phil Collins after the band reads my show report? :confused:
 
J

JimsArcade

Audiophyte
Wow, to think that after I read your interview with Daryl Stuermer I almost booked a one-day trip from the East coast to Vegas just to see this show (Genesis & Heart being my two favorite bands... and on one stage). I sure dodged a bullet with that one.

I knew Genesis was going to be the odd-band-out of the night: they don't have the recognizable hard-rock catalogue that the other bands possess. They could've at least chosen some stronger songs to keep in step with the other bands.

Keane was horrific, both in their choice of song and their performance of it. That's All was simply too "poppy" for an event like this.

Then Mike, Tony, Daryl and Chester played Turn it On Again: a great song live. I think Phil was on drums or something... at least that's whoever was in charge of his mic levels must've thought. What a disgrace. And while the decision to perform No Son of Mine was not to my liking, at least Phil came through on the hooks.

Personally, I think Land of Confusion would've been a perfect choice to close their set. It's recognizable both to older and younger listeners (thanks to the recent cover by Disturbed), it has a rockier edge for that era of Genesis' catalogue and the lyrics still resonate to this day.

I, too, was counting the days for over two weeks about this event. If it wasn't for the awesome performances of the other bands, I'd probably delete it from my DVR so I could forget this Genesis performance ever existed.

At least Heart did not disappoint. I was blown away by Gretchen Wilson's and Alice in Chain's performance of Barracuda. I didn't think Heart would be able to follow that, but thankfully they put on a great performance.

Actually, the VSpot performances for all of the bands outshone what was aired. I would've liked to have seen them in HD.
 
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G

genesis471

Audioholic
Though, I wonder if I will still get that interview with Phil Collins after the band reads my show report? :confused:
No. Phil is going to kick your *** my friend!:eek: And then perhaps he'll fess up to you!:D
 
supervij

supervij

Audioholic General
Although I'm just repeating other people's comments, I'll say that I was wildly disappointed with the Genesis portion of the show. Turn It On Again featured a bored Phil with what I assumed was just a weak voice that night. And No Son of Mine seemed like a weird choice for a show that was featuring ZZ Top and Ozzy. The crowd didn't seem to know what to make of NSoM, like it's simply not something they wanted to hear. The real crime, of course, was not airing Los Endos, which I just watched on the VH1 site.

I didn't watch the rest of the show, but I was really disappointed with Genesis. Hopefully they'll develop a little more enthusiasm for their tour.

cheers,
supervij
 
J

Jay Lengnick

Audiophyte
Oh, sure.
My first post and I’m going to start by complaining. Nice.

Gene DellaSala
President, Audioholics
Pursuing the truth in audio & video...

Said,

“Bands like Genesis rarely got air time on the radio because of their progressive nature of their music and the fact that most of their songs were 10+ minutes long.”

I can confidently say, that is not the truth.

I’ve been a Genesis fan ever since I stumbled onto them while looking in record stores for the original U.S. Genesis that I heard on the radio (“World Without You,” 16:08). Up until And Then There Were Three, Genesis had only four original studio songs that clocked in over ten minutes; “The Musical Box” (10:24), “Supper’s Ready” (22:58), “The Battle of Epping Forest” (11:43) and “The Cinema Show” (11:06). If you substitute seven+ minutes, it would still be a stretch, but I’d probably be OK.

Anecdotally, I heard plenty of Genesis on the radio during that period, when WTOS and WZMF in the Milwaukee area were transforming from underground FM radio into the slightly more commercial album rock stations. In fact, I even heard Sweetbottom, although they didn’t have albums out until after Darryl Stuermer had left the group.

Beyond that quibble, I completely appreciate what Mr. DellaSala was expressing. Fortunately, I caught a recent VH1 airing of the film Genesis In Concert, a 1976 performance featuring very early Phil Collins vocals and the incredible Bill Bruford on drums. That was worthwhile. (It can also be seen as an extra on the recently released Trick of the Tail DVD.)

Hopefully, I will be less the grouchy geek in the future, as I am only here because of the respect I have for Audioholics. This site was my prime source of information and inspiration during the recent months when I became a first time Home Theater owner. Truly. I owe you guys many thanks.

Jay Lengnick
Over 50 and Having Fun
 
S

staleskin

Audiophyte
The show went on with a fine Ozzy Osborne tribute performance from Queens of the Stone Age

You have got to be kidding me! Queens of the Stone Age performance of Sabbath's Paranoid was light, weak, and showed that this band just sucks.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
While I like both, I have always had a strong preference for the early Genesis. It upsets me that I am too young to have seen them live during the Gabriel era. I have heard rumors of a reunion tour including The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in its entirety. If this turns out to be true, I will definitely be willing to pay big bucks to see it.
 
DavidW

DavidW

Audioholics Contributing Writer
We should not digress for reasons of literalism.

A statement of 10+ minute songs has more to do with the fact that a significant number of songs from the early era are well past the 5 minute mark, and radio, as we know it, likes the 3 minute song, and it is rare to hear any that push much into 4 minutes.

The following push the 9-10 minute mark (when rounding):

'One for the Vine': 9:56
'Firth of Fifth': 9:36
'The Knife': 8:55
'Stagnation': 8:45
'Get 'Em out by Friday': 8:35

These still make it into the 7 to 8 minute range (without rounding):

'In the Cage': 8:15
'The Return of the Giant Hogweed': 8:09
'Ripples': 8:03
'Dancing with the Moonlit Knight': 8:02
'The Fountain of Salmacis': 7:54
'Eleventh Earl of Mar': 7:39
'Mad Man Moon': 7:35
'Watcher of the Skies': 7:19
'Looking for Someone': 7:00

When rounded, there are many more.

This, over seven studio albums, after 'Wind and Wuthering, I don't pay attention, but all of the aforementioned songs are too long for radio. Why you could play 2-3 'hit' songs in place of each. I can not think of any time that I have heard these on the radio recently, much less at full length.

Even at the height of their popularity, and that of progressive rock in general, other than a few choice stations, this music saw more limited air play and edited songs to fit the 3 minute format. But that was then, now? Not so much.

Pink Floyd's 'Dogs' makes XRT in Chicago but not at 17+ minutes, more like 6 minutes. WLUP will play Tull's 'Thick as a Brick' but again edited from 45+ minutes to 6 minutes. Still very long for the radio, but with the way themes are developed in these types of songs, there would not be much left that was recognizable if made any shorter.

The old Genesis still does get some limited airplay in Chicago, but they typically don’t go back to the Gabriel era.

WXRT in Chicago just finished playing ‘A Trick of the Tail’ as I write this and they have been known to play ‘Dance on a Volcano’ and ‘Squonk’ on rare occasion. Believe it or not, they have used part of ‘Watcher of the Skies’ as a background in station event advertising, and I do believe I may have even heard it once, or at least Lin Brehmer refer to it.

As the closest thing to the idea of a 'decent' radio station that I've encountered in modern day, they still rather play Keane and its ilk because old records are not the ones selling.

I believe WLUP will also occasionally play ‘Lamb Lies Down on Broadway’, and also rarely, ‘Los Endos’.

But that is about it.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
'One for the Vine': 9:56
'Firth of Fifth': 9:36
'The Knife': 8:55
'Stagnation': 8:45
'Get 'Em out by Friday': 8:35

These still make it into the 7 to 8 minute range (without rounding):

'In the Cage': 8:15
'The Return of the Giant Hogweed': 8:09
'Ripples': 8:03
'Dancing with the Moonlit Knight': 8:02
'The Fountain of Salmacis': 7:54
'Eleventh Earl of Mar': 7:39
'Mad Man Moon': 7:35
'Watcher of the Skies': 7:19
'Looking for Someone': 7:00
I didn't realize I would be taken so literally so Let's not forget:

Cinema Show 10:58
I know what I like in your wardrobe 8:45
Supper's Ready 24:33
Fading Lights 10:16
Driving the Last Spike: 10:08
Home by the Sea Part I & II over 10+ minutes
Domino part I & II over 10+ minutes
Abacab, Dodo, Dreaming While you Sleep, and many other 7+ minute songs
Behind the Lines / Duchess should be played together and are over 15 min long

The only Genesis I heard on the radio for the last 20+ years were songs like:

Invisible Touch
That's All
In too Deep
No Son of Mine
Turn it on Again
Land of Confusion (short version)
Abacab (short version)
I Can't Dance
Illegal Alien
Follow You Follow Me

It wasn't until XM launched a progressive rock channel (which is now gone BTW) that I heard the longer and older songs.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
The sad thing is that the songs you listed as having heard on the radio are crap compared to the older (and longer) stuff. It is not that they are bad songs, it is just that the early work is utterly brilliant.
 
DavidW

DavidW

Audioholics Contributing Writer
The sad thing is that the songs you listed as having heard on the radio are crap compared to the older (and longer) stuff. It is not that they are bad songs, it is just that the early work is utterly brilliant.
Nope, they're crap.

Even without the shadow of the brilliant earlier work.

'And Then There Were Three' marks the start of the decline that leads to Phil's solo career as a pop music huckster.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Genesis' heart wasn't in the performance, one of my all time favorite band, ZZ Top gave what is arguably their worst performance, Ozzy is, well, Ozzy. And if Zakk wasn't up there giving credence to that lame excuse for a show it would have gone down as a venue for aging rockers who are either asleep at the wheel, have too much money, or in Ozzy's case the last few live brain cells are on their last legs. Heart put a forth a valiant effort and at times it shined. I don't blame any of the performers, I blame VH1.

Lousy venue, lusy sound quality, lousy MC does not make for a good show.
 
G

genesis471

Audioholic
Okay, just got a peek at a clip from production rehearsals in Brussels. Also, I have seen more video of rehearsals, and I am very pleased with Phil's voice as I think it is building strength. I just don't think his heart was in the VH1 gig, as others have mentioned.
Take a look at the following clip (Keep in mind that the animation is likely not finished, as it has been said that at this point they were still working on it, and the lighting! Setlist is revealed as well, and it is a great setlist! Recorded on a guys cellphone, so don't expect much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbVLKisd4KU

Mike
 
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
Nope, they're crap.
Even without the shadow of the brilliant earlier work.
I'd pick a fight over "Follow You, Follow Me", which I think is a great pop song. (And ABACAB is great as an extended live jam, but yeah, pointless otherwise.)

But mostly that list is depressing. I liked "Turn It On Again" way back when it was originally a hit, but I skip over it now.
 
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