Speakers for Large Music

[MACCA350]

I never adjust my sub between recordings(in fact I don't think I've touched it in 6months, apart from the affectionate pat once in a while ), once you set it up level match and eq it just becomes an extension of you mains and doesn't draw attention to itself(except when then content asks it to ). When setup correctly you can't tell there is a separate sub in the mix, everything just sounds right and you end up with a true full range sound. The most common mistake is to increase the subs volume as high as you can(although a few db hotter is often enjoyable), the biggest problem is that you end up increasing the noise floor and loose dynamics as compression kicks in earlier.

So really, once setup properly there should be no reason to alter it, unless its to turn it down or off in the wee hours of the morning

cheers

 

[John Bailey]

Can I ask what recordings of the pieces you mentioned you were listening to?

I tried a couple versions on my DIY Jordan bookshelfs last night and the recordings didnt seem super dynamic to me.

These speakers really excell at piano and orchestra music but the recordings seemed kind of flat.

Carmina Burana - Herbert Blomstedt, San Francisco Symphony & Chorus, London Digital

Bach B minor - John Eliot Gardiner, Montiveri Choir, Archiv

Bach B monor - Robert Shaw, Atlanta Symphony, Telarc

 

[Tetonmtnbiker]

Monitor Audio silver rs6

Hey John,

You might try to audition a pair of these. They are right at $1000 per pair. I have a pair and love them. I also looked at Energy (RC 70's) and found the two to be a tossup. I liked different things about each.

Good Luck!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I have to agree with MACCA; once the sub is properly set up, you dont need to touch it. I used to think that my set-up sounded better if I listened to music (mainly Jazz) in the Pure Direct 2 channel mode but once I got the sub properly dialed in it is 2.1 all the way.

I do bump up the sub level by 2db using the AVR for movies just to get that extra, crazy punch.

 

[william]

I would recommend that you audition Magnepan MMGs. They are factory direct at $550 a pair. They have a very natural and open sound that works great with "large" music. I have found the bass to be plenty satisfying to me (without a subwoofer) for music. If you want more bass, then you have money left over for a subwoofer and you should consider the Hsu VTF-2 MK 3 at $499 or even the VTF-2 MK2 at $399. I have the Hsu VTF-3 MK3 and have been very satisfied and others have commented positively about these other Hsu models.

Additionally, you have a 60 day trial on the Magnepan (30 days on the Hsu). Within the first year, you can upgrade to larger and more expensive Manepans and receive up to your full MMG price back depending on the time since purchase and the model you upgrade to.

 

[MACCA350]

I would recommend that you audition Magnepan MMGs. They are factory direct at $550 a pair. They have a very natural and open sound that works great with "large" music. I have found the bass to be plenty satisfying to me (without a subwoofer) for music. If you want more bass, then you have money left over for a subwoofer and you should consider the Hsu VTF-2 MK 3 at $499 or even the VTF-2 MK2 at $399. I have the Hsu VTF-3 MK3 and have been very satisfied and others have commented positively about these other Hsu models.

Additionally, you have a 60 day trial on the Magnepan (30 days on the Hsu). Within the first year, you can upgrade to larger and more expensive Manepans and receive up to your full MMG price back depending on the time since purchase and the model you upgrade to.

I noticed those magnepan's are 4ohm with a 86db sensitivity, are you using separate amps to power them. Also are you able to reach high SPL output easily.

cheers

 

[markw]

I noticed those magnepan's are 4ohm with a 86db sensitivity, are you using separate amps to power them. Also are you able to reach high SPL output easily.

cheers

I used a NAD 214 power amp (80 wpc @ 8 ohm, 120 @ 4)with mine quite successfully. When I upgraded to the 1'6's however, I needed more power. I stepped up to a Rotel RB-991.

Maggies like power but, like a beautiful woman who caters to your every need, they are worth it.

 

[Warpdrv]

Maggies like power but, like a beautiful woman who caters to your every need, they are worth it.

Well it seems to me that I haven't run across all that many beautiful women that cater to my every need... Ususally its they that want the catering....

 

[markw]

Well then, my friend...

Well it seems to me that I haven't run across all that many beautiful women that cater to my every need... Ususally its they that want the catering....

you ain't doing it right

And, honestly, neither am I.

 

[jaxvon]

John,

I would suggest that you put on your list to Audition the Vandersteen 2CE Signature. At retail it is over your budget, but high quality used speakers can be found on Audiogon for a price you can agree with. I have found of recent that at this price range, nothing compares (in my opinion, of course) to Vandersteen. I have listened to models from AVI, Sonus Faber, Paradigm, and Vienna Acoustics that cost in excess of $2000, some close to $4000, and none of them sounded as good as the much more affordable Vandersteen speakers. There are some caveats. Due to their crossover design, the Vandersteens don't have great off-axis response. This means that placement can be tricky and that you won't get a wide listening window. But if your setup is designed for you to kick back and get sucked into your music, this shouldn't be as much of an issue. Of course, if you want ultimate realism, I found that you need basically omnipolar response with a very properly and precisely treated room. However, that sort of setup is definitely out of your budget, so I will not talk about it more (read this if you want more info on my thoughts).

Below is a list of affordable Vandersteen speakers currently on sale on Audiogon. They are used, and not all of them are the 2CE signature. However, all of them are some variant of the Model 2. Any of these are good speakers in the price range. They are full range and pretty solid. The aesthetics aren't to die for, but rather than being gaudy, they are quite understated and blend into a room quite nicely.

Here is a link to the Vandersteen product page:

http://vandersteen.com/pages/The Model 2Ce Signature.html

And here are the aforementioned Audiogon links:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1181344624
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1181241869
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1180643218
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1180300088
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1179961524


Good luck with your search!

 

[John Bailey]

I used a NAD 214 power amp (80 wpc @ 8 ohm, 120 @ 4)with mine quite successfully. When I upgraded to the 1'6's however, I needed more power. I stepped up to a Rotel RB-991.

Maggies like power but, like a beautiful woman who caters to your every need, they are worth it.

I don't know, my ex's name was Maggie - not sure I need that in my life again. Definitely power hungry, but cater's to my every need....don't know about that one.

On the serious side, I just found out about "Magnolias" which are in Best Buys. I'm going to be visiting my mom for a few days this weekend and there's a Magnolias close by her. Do any of you know what type of speakers they have that I could audition. I've a PM about Martin Logans that I would like to give a listen to - any others that you know they carry.

John

 

[John Bailey]

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who has given me all this great advice. In the last couple of days I've done a lot of research into Vandersteen, electrostatic and planar speakers. I've learned they are very detailed, hard to place, easy to place, hard to power, not so hard to power, ugly, great looking, have enough bass, have too little bass, play at great volumes, and will only play well at moderate levels, and all the magazine reviews think they are all the best the world has ever seen - in their price range, of course... well, you get the idea. Everything I've read, however, has said they are very detailed and precise with great definition in the bass they offer. I've never thought of these speakers before, and I think it's time. I don't need a lot of bass, but the bass I hear, I would like to be tight and defined. I never play music at very high volumes. As stated at the beginning of this thread, I'll be moving and I'll have a larger listening room, so size of a planar is not an issue.

All that said, I'll be hunting down places I can audition Martin Logans, Magnepan's and Vandersteens. From what folks have said on this thread, and PM'ing me, these speakers are my best chance to get the sound I want and will be in my price range, some used, some new.

Thanks again,

John

 

[jaxvon]

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who has given me all this great advice. In the last couple of days I've done a lot of research into Vandersteen, electrostatic and planar speakers. I've learned they are very detailed, hard to place, easy to place, hard to power, not so hard to power, ugly, great looking, have enough bass, have too little bass, play at great volumes, and will only play well at moderate levels, and all the magazine reviews think they are all the best the world has ever seen - in their price range, of course... well, you get the idea. Everything I've read, however, has said they are very detailed and precise with great definition in the bass they offer. I've never thought of these speakers before, and I think it's time. I don't need a lot of bass, but the bass I hear, I would like to be tight and defined. I never play music at very high volumes. As stated at the beginning of this thread, I'll be moving and I'll have a larger listening room, so size of a planar is not an issue.

All that said, I'll be hunting down places I can audition Martin Logans, Magnepan's and Vandersteens. From what folks have said on this thread, and PM'ing me, these speakers are my best chance to get the sound I want and will be in my price range, some used, some new.

Thanks again,

John

John,

Don't forget to budget some money for acoustical treatments. The room and speakers are two main components in sound quality. Beyond that you need to get amplifiers that have low distortion and flat response with the power output you need, a quiet and linear preamp, and source components that do what you want. Above all, though, dump your money into the speakers and the room.

 

[John Bailey]

John,

Don't forget to budget some money for acoustical treatments. The room and speakers are two main components in sound quality. Beyond that you need to get amplifiers that have low distortion and flat response with the power output you need, a quiet and linear preamp, and source components that do what you want. Above all, though, dump your money into the speakers and the room.

Thanks jaxvon,

I'll be powering whatever I get with NAD for the time being. I've decided to start with speakers and upgrade electronics later. I see there is a "Room Accoustics" section of Audioholics. I'll spend some time there to learn a bit about accoustical treatment. Do you know of another site that would provide information on that? I'm going to have to furnish the new place anyway, might as well get it right.

John

 

[John Bailey]

I thought I'd update folks on my speaker search for "Large Music."

I had to go down state to take care of my mom this weekend. I had all day Friday to get there, so, when I found out I could audition both Magnepan and Vandersteen at the same store, I made a 200 mi. side trip to hear them.

Since starting this search, I've found that the expression I'm looking for in speakers is "Definition." I wanted speakers that would give me the feeling that I could pick out the different instrument sections in the orchestra, while not losing the choir's definition. Since hearing PSB T8's, with accompanying costly amplification, I've known the type of sound I want to listen to, but could not find in relatively low cost speakers. After listening to, probably, 100 different speakers of all makes and models, I had not found that sound. Now, I've found two speaker manufacturers that give me what I've been looking for.

I first listened to the Magnepan MG1.6. I was mightily impressed. The sound was very well defined and fit my needs. I seemed to hear all the orchestral instruments and the choir's separate sections stayed defined also. What a pleasure! We then changed to the MB12. My ears heard the same definition as before with a bit less area in the soundstage. (I hope that's the correct word for what I want to describe.) My only complaint would be that the highs did seem to be a bit shrill at times. This seemed to happen with both speakers. I believe this was more an amp problem than the speakers, however, as I will explain later. At that point, we set up the Vandersteen 2ce (or whatever the newest model is). The Vandersteens had somewhat less definition than the Magnepans, but, handled the bass much better. Also, I never heard the shrillness that I mentioned with the Magnepans. I found both the Magnepans and the Vandersteen to be better suited to my tastes than any other speakers I've heard. We, then, switched back to the Magnepan MG1.6 and listened for a couple of hours. As I played with volume levels and speaker placement, I noticed that, with the Magnepans, no matter where I went in the room, I heard great definition and overall sound. There was a sweet spot that was obviously best, but they sounded good no matter where I went. For me, the Magnepans were the best, while the Vandersteens certainly would be acceptable. Later, we listened to the MC1's from Magnepan. Again, I heard the same incredible definition, just a smaller soundstage and less bass.

Now a word about the amplification. All this listening was done using a Cambridge 540 at 50 wpc. As I think everyone knows, Magnepans especially, are reputed to need lots of power. Towards the end, we hooked up an Arcam integrated with more power. The only difference I heard was that the shrillness of the highs went away with the MG1.6. All the other good characteristics of the Magnepans stayed. So, my belief is that if you get the Magnepans with a less expensive amp, you'll be fine because you are going to get great sound. As you add a better amp, your sound will improve.

As was stated before in this thread, I've got some time before I make this purchase, but it's good to know there are some speakers, in my price range, that will do what I want. Can't wait to audition some Martin Logans now.

John

 

[billnchristy]

I have listened to the lower priced ML at Magnolia and they just do not do the name justice.

 

[markw]

How soon did you plan on upgrading that amp?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE my 1.6's, and for yourpurposes, so will you []i]BUT[/i] that 50wpc (even NAD watts) is way too light for anything except low levels. It sucked my NAD 214 (80wpc/8 ohms) dry trying to reach "realistic" levels of acoustic piano music. (loud KA-RAK! on peaks)

Since that amp offers pre outs and main ins, you might scrounge around for a hefty used power amp.

Great speakers, but they heve their needs to do their best.

 

[william]

If you have decided that Magnepan is the way to go, recommend that you order the MMGs direct from Magnepan. The MMGs are about 2/3rds the size of the 1.6s. The factory direct program gives you a 60 day trial period to decide if you are going to keep them. Additionally, if you then upgrade to 1.6s or higher within the initial 4 months of MMG ownership, Magnepan will refund your full MMG purchase price. If you hold off but then decide to upgrade after 4 months but less than 1 year, you get approximately 80% of the MMG purchase price back.

 

[joebob]

If you like PSB you should check out the Stratus line. I have the Stratus SilverI's and they're very detailed. I would like more bass, though. I think the line has been discontinued and you should be able to find some bargains on these speakers. Check DMC Electronics and Saturday Audio Exchange.

 

[John Bailey]

If you have decided that Magnepan is the way to go, recommend that you order the MMGs direct from Magnepan.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE my 1.6's, and for yourpurposes, so will you []i]BUT[/i] that 50wpc (even NAD watts) is way too light for anything except low levels.

William,

I've considered that, and finances will be the determining factor. I haven't moved yet and don't know what my situation will be until the move happens. What I know is that I was thrilled with the sound of both Vandy's and Maggies, both the MG12's and 1.6's. I have no doubt I would like the MMG's also. The Maggies seemed to best suite my tastes, even with the low level amplification. I owe it to myself to listen to the Martin Logans before making a decision.

markw,

I hear ya! I'm going to get speakers first, then start researching my amp options. When searching for my present, and admittedly low-fi, system, I found NAD to be what I liked best. I intend to use an NAD C370 or C372 when I get the speakers. I think at that point I'll try room accoustics and placement before I start changing amps.

It would be good to point out that I love doing the research. I've learned an incredible amount since posting this thread. I hadn't even thought of planars or electrostats before, and I found I should have checked them out years ago.

Thanks for all the advice.

John