Family Home Theater - is this too much for us?

[millard]

My husband went to the local theater to have a home theater done and came home with a quote for nearly $37,000. We are not huge into sound or technology and frankly are more interested in a fancy remote that dims the lights and starts the movie! Wow factor! I did a little bit of research and keep on seeing top of the line this and that. Is the following system top of the line? medium?

Our room is roughly 16x20 and is a dedicated home theater with 2 levels for seating. Any opinions would be appreciated:

Qty Brand Model/Description List Price
1 MitsubishiHC-5000 Hi Def 1080P HDMI Projector 4,499.00

1 Stewart 135" Luxus Deluxe Screenwall Micro-perf 6,252.40
1 Anthem D2 7 Channel 1080P HDMI A/V Processor 6,699.00
1 Anthem A5 225 Watt 5 Channel Power Amplifier 2,699.00
1 Anthem A2 225 Watt 2 Channel Power Amplifier 1,399.00
1 Yamaha DVD-S 2700 Universal HDMI DVD Player 999.95
1 Universal Remote MX900 Remote and RF Base Station 649.95
1 Universal remote Programming = $65 per component TBD
7 Paradigm SA-35 In Wall Loudspeaker 5,250.00
2 Paradigm Seismic 10 Subwoofer System 2,800.00
1 Wireworld9 Meter Ultraviolet 5 HDMI Video Cable 319.95
2 Wireworld1 Meter Ultraviolet 5 HDMI Video/Audio Cable 239.90
1 Wireworld4 Meter Atlantis 5 Balanced Subwoofer Cable 102.48
1 Wireworld8 Meter Atlantis 5 Balanced Subwoofer Cable 344.95
7 Wireworld1 Meter equinox 5 Balanced Audio Interconnects682.33
1 Panamax Max 5500 Hi Fidelity Noise Filtering Surge Protector999.00

Tax 1,252.27
Labor 780.00
Remote Programming 500.00

I sort of feel like the sales guy was selling what he would want in his system!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Wow...looks like they saw you coming.

There is some really good stuff there but you do not need it and it looks like some of the prices are high.

They are trying to sale you goobs of power on speakers that dont need it; cable at 10 times the cost of what you can get the same quality for; 1k Surge Protector that you dont need and a $600 remote.

Since you say you are not "huge into sound or technology" I have to say...start over. My room is almost twice the size of your and I spent less than 6 grand on the entire AV system.

Tell us what you want to spend and we can get you something a lot cheaper.

 

[millard]

Budget $15,000

I would love to be able to complete the theater for under $15,000.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Did you look at the recommended 15K system on this site? That would be a good starting place or we can walk you trough a great system.

I am off to a meeting but someone else will jump in and help very shortly.

 

[Mort Corey]

I would love to be able to complete the theater for under $15,000.

Start shopping and talking to other installer/suppliers and you should have no problem putting together a very nice system for $15K. Your quoted package has $1700 worth of wire that can likely be duplicated or exceeded in quality for a third of that price. $11K of amplification for someone that doesn't care much about audophile sound is a little (lot) bit overkill as well.....and as was said, not necessary to drive the speakers being offered. You can get a pretty nice receiver with ample power for less than half that amount (or less).

The internet is your friend You're talking about spending some pretty serious money and a little time spent on research will pay off.

Good hunting,

Mort

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Here is a start to a awesome HT that will save you a bundle.

Sanyo PLV-Z5 LCD Projector- $2000 (there are several projectors that will work for you in the 2-3k range. 720 should be just fine) I don’t know a lot about projectors but someone who does will chime in.

Yamaha RX-V2600 - < $1300 (this will be plenty of power for your set-up)
(Denon and Pioneer Elite have models that will work too)

Oppo DVD player 981HDDV-981HD- $230

Logitech® Harmony® 890 Advanced Universal Remote- < $400 (you can step down in models and get great features for < $180)

Speakers are subjective and you should listen to all you can and decide what you like. Are you willing to go with towers or bookshelves vs. in-walls? Look at these speakers if yes:
Warfadale
B&W
DT
PSB
Monitor Audio
Paradigm
KEF
Energy
Ascend
AV123

There are better subs than the Para you mentioned. You can get a great sub from SVS or HSU for 1000-1800 bucks.

All cables/wires should be purchased through Monoprice or Bluejeans. They are inexpensive and very good. Do not spend a lot of money in this area!

You can get a good surge protector for <100 bucks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm not saying you are being had or anything. The system quoted is awesome... Truly awesome.

But, is it what you need or want and does it match a price point you are trying to stay within?

The glaring issue I see is the Stewart filmscreen which can easily be matched by a fixed Carada screen and placing the center channel below the screen.

The projector is awesome, but perhaps a JVC could do you a bit better for similar cash.

The audio... well, if you just want it to be really good, then you can save a fair bit of cash to get what you want.

The remote... great, that's going to cost you a bit more than what it shows on the invoice though.

Now, here's the hard part: What are your other options? I always am looking to expand my business in the DC area with setups like yours and have had some luck because I follow the concept of delivering a value oriented product that matches what you are looking to do.

$15,000 from a custom shop will deliver a halfway decent setup... From a smaller contractor who specialized in home A/V you can get a lot more for your money though. They also may have some resources to get you some product far closer to cost or make some recommendations on some used gear.

Really - let me rip this list apart...

1 MitsubishiHC-5000 Hi Def 1080P HDMI Projector 4,499.00

Great projector, perhaps a few options of similar price with superior quality.

1 Stewart 135" Luxus Deluxe Screenwall Micro-perf 6,252.40

Unless you've gotta have your speakers behind the screen, this is the biggest rip off product on your list. The screen should NEVER cost more than the projector!

1 Anthem D2 7 Channel 1080P HDMI A/V Processor 6,699.00

Kick *** preamp... Do you want kick *** or just really good? Really good can be had for under $1,500 pretty easily, especially if you add external amplification.

1 Anthem A5 225 Watt 5 Channel Power Amplifier 2,699.00

Great - Pretty much anyone can deliver you 200 watts per channel across a full 7 channels for less money.

1 Anthem A2 225 Watt 2 Channel Power Amplifier 1,399.00

Another kick *** product if that's what you are after.

1 Yamaha DVD-S 2700 Universal HDMI DVD Player 999.95

For a few more bucks you can get both HD DVD and Blu-ray disc HD players into your system as stand alone separates! No, this doesn't make sense to me.

1 Universal Remote MX900 Remote and RF Base Station 649.95

Great remote, no issues here. I personally have found Crestron gear that I give to people for similar pricing, but this is pretty typical for a custom house and is a good piece. I wouldn't go with a lesser remote.

1 Universal remote Programming = $65 per component TBD

If it's an hour per component then that's really cheap labor. More likely 4 hours to do the whole system so about $110 or so per hour plus travel. Pretty typical.

7 Paradigm SA-35 In Wall Loudspeaker 5,250.00

In wall? No. There are so many other options out there for less money or that deliver more for the same money.

2 Paradigm Seismic 10 Subwoofer System 2,800.00

This may be a very good purchase, but there are lots of other options available for the same or less that will deliver more.

1 Wireworld9 Meter Ultraviolet 5 HDMI Video Cable 319.95

No.

2 Wireworld1 Meter Ultraviolet 5 HDMI Video/Audio Cable 239.90

No.

1 Wireworld4 Meter Atlantis 5 Balanced Subwoofer Cable 102.48

No.

1 Wireworld8 Meter Atlantis 5 Balanced Subwoofer Cable 344.95

No.

7 Wireworld1 Meter equinox 5 Balanced Audio Interconnects682.33

No.

That's four (edit: FIVE!) NOs in a row. Cable mythology is heavily blown up on this website and for good reason. For a few hundred bucks you should get all the cables installed including 12 gauge speaker cable and all interconnects and HDMI/digital runs.

1 Panamax Max 5500 Hi Fidelity Noise Filtering Surge Protector999.00

Solid product - but once again, towards the high end of what you may need/want.

It's very rare that someone like you comes and asks after visiting a store like you did, but now the question becomes "What are your alternatives?"

Where are you located? Maybe someone can offer some personal advice, contractors, or shops in your area that will treat you far more realistically.

 

[Seth=L]

BMXTRIX, you the man.

 

[Seth=L]

If I had to get in-wall speakers I would give a hard look at Triad, they make excellent in-wall speakers and inwall subwoofers. If complete discreteness is your thing, then put Triad in the bag.

 

[jaxvon]

A great system, but definitely over budget. I concur with BMXTRIX. I would advise you to look at Monoprice.com, Parts Express, and Blue Jeans Cable for your cabling needs. As for in-wall speaker wire, look at the 5000UP from Belden, though I would not source it from Blue Jeans. Their bulk cable prices are high, though their terminated stuff is well-priced for the quality level you get. Markertek is another good cabling resource.

Speakers? I'm not a fan of Paradigm, and in-walls should be avoided if you can. Yes they look more discrete, but they don't offer the highest sound quality nor value when compared to floorstanding speakers. If you wanted in-wall for something, go for surrounds, as they are the least important speakers and you can get away with putting them in the wall.

 

[BMXTRIX]

A great system, but definitely over budget. I concur with BMXTRIX. I would advise you to look at Monoprice.com, Parts Express, and Blue Jeans Cable for your cabling needs. As for in-wall speaker wire, look at the 5000UP from Belden, though I would not source it from Blue Jeans. Their bulk cable prices are high, though their terminated stuff is well-priced for the quality level you get. Markertek is another good cabling resource.

Speakers? I'm not a fan of Paradigm, and in-walls should be avoided if you can. Yes they look more discrete, but they don't offer the highest sound quality nor value when compared to floorstanding speakers. If you wanted in-wall for something, go for surrounds, as they are the least important speakers and you can get away with putting them in the wall.

I would point out, that if this person is not a DIYer then the pricing you are going to see from those online vendors is not going to be reflective of what a good A/V contractor will ever be able to deliver. That is, Monoprice delivers good stuff, but if you aren't putting it in yourself then almost no company or contractor in the world will install it for you. On the other hand, a good contractor will deliver similar quality for what may be closer to Blue Jeans Cable pricing.

The profit on cabling and gear is one way contractors and retailers cover overhead charges so lowest internet pricing is always going to best what a person can get. Yet, for the full Do-It-Yourselfer, online is one of the best ways to go. If you are NOT a DIYer, then online pricing can, at best, be considered a scale to judge against.

 

[Warpdrv]

Take your time and do some reading, I spent a good amount of time learing whats worth spending money on and what you can easily get away without.

There are alot of places that will sell you what you don't need to line their pockets, try a different dealer... Get as many quotes as you can. It doesn't sound like you are looking for top of the line here, and can easily get an amazing sounding and looking Home Theater setup for 10 to 15K.

But it also sounds like you need someone to do an Install here, and with what you are installing will require some effort... Installers pad the bill with cables. Also looks like some list prices there...
With that being said you have some really Amazing Totally Top of the Line Equipment listed there, that many here only dream about.

Are you totally opposed to floor Standing speakers..? Much better sound.

Good luck... there are alot of people that are here to help you...

You can save alot of money in this venture, and not get taken...

Warp

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

If the room is only 16x20 they certainly shouldn't need 2 subwoofers and $10k in seperates to power 95Db-eff inwalls. Any good AVR should have more power than they could use at deafening levels. One Paradigm Seismic sub should be more than plenty.

Of course they "aren't into audio/video" maybe paying alot is the whole idea.

We should also mention that installing and cabeling 7 in-wall loudspeakers is going to add several days and another $1000+ in contractor labor.

 

[Nick250]

. We are not huge into sound or technology and frankly are more interested in a fancy remote that dims the lights and starts the movie! Wow factor! !

To provide you with some prospective and given your comments above, $7500 will get you more than you want or need. The suggested system that you got the quote on is a terrible value IMO.

Nick

 

[mtrycrafts]

I sort of feel like the sales guy was selling what he would want in his system!

That is hard to get around.

Let me ask, since I didn't see a mention, are you doing anything to the room, modification, etc? Or, are these two rows in place now and just upgrading? If you are modifying the room, is that in this quote?

One other suggestion, just in case: don't rush it, especially with the HD video being here now.

And, now that I reviewed the other posts:

I would strongly suggest sticking with a 1080p projector as they are here now and will stay for a long while to come and so are the Hi-Def DVDs, Don't bother with 720p for a front projector as the hi-def DVDs are 1080p. Unfortunately, there is not a universal hi-def DVD player and there are two formats, like the VHS/Beta was. And, the prices are coming down fast on those players, even if you have to but both formats.

That 135" may be too big for most projectors to light properly, after proper calibration. A 115" diagonal is very nice, especially with a room only 20ft deep. By the way, how far is the seating?
If you really want all inwall speakers, then you will need a perforated screen and as you can see, they are expensive.
As was asked, think about floor standing speakers and wall mounted speakers.
1 good sub should do you well, around $1k, SVS or Hsu made.

How much of the work will you guys do yourself?

One item you need to include, not cheap, and a must, is an ISF calibration of the projector. Very few are properly set from the factory.

 

[InTheIndustry]

The LG BH100 is a universal HD format DVD player.

Vidabox Media PC's can be ordered with both drives as well.

As far as the home theater quote goes, I have some real major problems with it and would have to recommend staying away from the dealer that put it together for you. I am a systems integrator in South Western Ohio and bid against quotes like this all the time. It's sad.

I don't think that it's hard at all to spend $35K+ looking for a big time WOW factor. Lighting control, control system, projector, room treatments, etc. all add up in a hurry. The key is finding components that match well together from a value stand point.

Examples: A $6K+ screen for a $5K- projector is way skewed. A $2,500 screen would be pushing it.

A $6K+ pre-amp is absurd to me as well. Going by the speakers he chose for you, spending that much on seperates is killing your budget with little return.

The wire and cable is extremely excessive.

Charging you labor on a purchase that size is a slap in the face. Since the labor charge is really low considering the time it will take to set all of that up I am inclined to think the dealer is trying to get himself as much $ as he can and not with keeping your goals both with the project and financially.

For a room your size, a $15K system is tough to do if you are really wanting to be WOW'd. You can certainly get some good equipment in there for that kind of money, but Wow is tough. It's all relative to what you want to achieve vs. what you want to spend.

 

[mazersteven]

If I was going to put a system together, and have an investment like that. I wouldn't be using Paradigm in-walls. I would be using Triad speakers

www.triadspeakers.com

 

[Seth=L]

If I was going to put a system together, and have an investment like that. I wouldn't be using Paradigm in-walls. I would be using Triad speakers

www.triadspeakers.com

Hey, now there is a good post!

 

[InTheIndustry]

Just a heads up for those of you how like Triad Speakers. They make really really nice products and I've done a few theatres using them. However, I was playing around with a rep that I know's Snell speakers and thought that they offered a nice alternative to the Triad line. I actually think I like them better. A lot of their in-wall line is boxed (as is Triad's) but after reviewing their pricing I think they offer more for the money and have a few things that might be a little less expensive. Just an alternative for people who want a higher-end in-wall.

www.snellacoustics.com

 

[mazersteven]

1 Panamax Max 5500 Hi Fidelity Noise Filtering Surge Protector999.00

Let me save you some money.

http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=501009