A Brief Comparison - Yamaha V659 vs Pioneer Elite 82TSX

[Stealth X]

so i brought the Pioneer 82TSX home for a couple nights to compare against my current Yammy V659.

my first impressions were decent. its much more aesthetically pleasing than the Yamaha but i already knew that. there are quite a few more steps in the automatic calibration process which i liked, but i already knew about that too. then things went downhill a little.

one of my concerns with the yammy was the fact i have to turn the volume so high to get the sound levels i so crave now and again. needless to say on first test (ipod-yes i've read the articles about how terrible compressed music is - but i'm hard pressed to hear any difference in a CD) i found i had to turn the pioneer a few db's higher to achieve the same sound. and due to the auto system setting all my speakers to large etc it sounded like crap! so i switched the input to cable, xbox, etc and all were the same, i had to have the unit a few decibles higher to get the same sound levels from any source.

so i went and checked out the details of the auto set up and set my rears to small. unfortunately i cant find (mind you i dont have the manual - i ended up with a french one-DOH!) many other familiar settings, ie: LFE output, equalizer, etc... the equalizer settings i can see are very complicated and seem to be for individual speakers, i would think there must be some kind of general adjustments.

so one my first eve i was somewhat on the fence as to wether i liked it better or not, but things did get better. one thing i did like better was the over balance of sound. the bass was much tighter with the rest of the speakers, and sounds seemed to travel smoother from speaker to speaker. and i also knew there were many adjustments to be made to improve the overall quality that i just have yet to figure out.

yesterday i hooked up another set of speaker wire to my fronts as the Pioneer is able to Bi-amp, so i thought i would see if that makes any difference. it did. i hear life, and bass from my fronts that i have never heard before. it made them a little bit louder but more so made them sound much fuller. i found this imporoved the overall quality from all sources putting it now noticabely ahead of the Yamaha.

so now that i've monkeyed around with the DSP settings quite a bit with different sources, and found ones that i think are best (without having read the manual - i'm sure i can make it WAY better once i know how to)
i definately prefer the sound quality of the Pioneer. most noicable is how much better balance the surround sound is. sounds from behind me are much more prominant yet the centre voices are never drowned out. as mentioned the sub is actually in unison with the rest of my system which makes a big difference. i now find explosions sound more realistic, and again are much more balanced than before. ie: when playing Call Of Duty 3 on my 360 in order to get loud surround effects i had to have it loud enough that an explosion would blow the pictures of my walls! with the pioneer however, while the explosions are loud, it isnt too much.

music wise, i also prefer the sound from the pioneer. not only do my fronts sound much better in 2 channel stereo being bi amped but the 7 channel stereo sounds AWESOME due to the much superior calibrating job the Pioneer does. i will say i think the Yamaha's compressed music enhancer does a better job (again there could very well be some feature on the pioneer i havent found yet) than the pioneer. also with the pioneer you can hear the hard drive on the ipod spin through the speakers when you change tracks, while it isnt loud, nor last longer than a second, it is a little distracting if the song you are flipping to starts quietly. what i do LOVE about the pioneer is its superior control function over the ipod - you can flip by page instead of one track/artist at a time! the yamaha was painstakingly slow as it literally took about a second and a 1/2 to flip from one title to the next, so needless to say ZZ Top and Zwan didnt get much play!

so i've pretty much decided to go with the upgrade, and sell my yammy to my buddy. the yamaha really is a great amp, but the pioneers ability to bi amp and superior auto calibration are the deal breaker for me. not to mention it matches quite nicely with the 60" Elite Plasma i just got!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

You lost me as soon as you said you cant hear a difference between MP3 and CDs; I cant trust the rest of your audition if you used the same ears.

 

[MDS]

You lost me as soon as you said you cant hear a difference between MP3 and CDs; I cant trust the rest of your audition if you used the same ears.

Give me a break! I have over 5,000 MP3s and in the majority of cases you can't easily tell the difference between them and the uncompressed WAV ripped from the CD.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

maybe my IPOD is broken then...

 

[Tom Andry]

It all depends on the music. It is easy to hear the difference when you compress well recorded music. Other already compressed ready for radio stuff is about the same no matter what you do to it.

 

[Stealth X]

maybe my IPOD is broken then...

when i first got my Yamaha i wasnt expecting much from the Ipod dock that came with it due to all the negativity i had read about compressed music played via your home stereo. needless to say i was pleasantly surprised. when it comes to music i do not listen casually by any means. i spend at least an hour a day lost in anything from classical, to metal, to country, you name it. although i would say at least %50 is speant listening to more agressive types wether it be metal, rock, hip hop, or house. also i listen to the same music now as i have my entire life, while my taste broadens all the time, i never stop liking something. my point being i have heard most of my music on many systems and in many formats so i know what it is "supposed" to sound like. and it sounds good coming from my ipod.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Ummm...

Maybe something really is wrong with my IPOD. When I have it turned down and just using it for background noise, it is fine but when I really want it loud, I cant stand the way it sounds. I listen mainly to jazz so I wonder if the music matters?

 

[jaxvon]

Ummm...

Maybe something really is wrong with my IPOD. When I have it turned down and just using it for background noise, it is fine but when I really want it loud, I cant stand the way it sounds. I listen mainly to jazz so I wonder if the music matters?

What bitrate are you MP3s, and what headphones are you using?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

What bitrate are you MP3s, and what headphones are you using?

I have no idea about anything related to my IPOD. I just downloaded some music from ITunes about a year ago when I purchased the Nano. My "headphones" are Paradigm Studio 40's...

 

[Stealth X]

i thought the bitrate was an issue at first. i was importing all of my music at 320kbps... ? i cant remember the exact number. but i found when downloading from itunes at 128 kbps they sound just as good. so i reimported most of my library at 256kbps and find no difference in quality at all. now any new cd's i buy, i import at 192, and again with no difference. i am refering to listening via my home system. i find the ipod sounds better than ANY portable player i have ever owned in the headphone aspect.

 

[Hutzal]

one of my concerns with the yammy was the fact i have to turn the volume so high to get the sound levels i so crave now and again.

Did you calibrate your system with an SPL meter? Relying on just the auto calibration will not give you an accurate representation of what that AV receiver is REALLY like.

i definately prefer the sound quality of the Pioneer. most noicable is how much better balance the surround sound is. sounds from behind me are much more prominant yet the centre voices are never drowned out. as mentioned the sub is actually in unison with the rest of my system which makes a big difference. i now find explosions sound more realistic, and again are much more balanced than before.

Again, this can be fixed with using a simple SPL meter to calibrate the levels of your speakers. Your review isn't looking too good as you are relying on your "ears" and the auto calibration to compare the 2 receivers.

The Yammy could be alot better and you wouldn't even know it.

 

[moverton]

It all depends on the music. It is easy to hear the difference when you compress well recorded music. Other already compressed ready for radio stuff is about the same no matter what you do to it.

I think most people don't know what uncompressed music can sound like. Most cd's are mixed for radio, that's one reason i like sacd and dvd-audio. not because they are so much better tech, it's just that they get mixed with decent systems in mind instead of car radios.
I downloaded some Bill Evans from iTunes a few months back. I thought the download had got corrupted. I kept downloading it again trying to get it right. Finally I figured it out.

 

[Stealth X]

Did you calibrate your system with an SPL meter? Relying on just the auto calibration will not give you an accurate representation of what that AV receiver is REALLY like.



Again, this can be fixed with using a simple SPL meter to calibrate the levels of your speakers. Your review isn't looking too good as you are relying on your "ears" and the auto calibration to compare the 2 receivers.

The Yammy could be alot better and you wouldn't even know it.

well let me start by saying this was no review, but instead a BRIEF COMPARISON by a somewhat NOOB, intended to be found possibly useful by somebody else like me, who may be faced with the decision of a mid grade amp or going to the next level.

so OBVIOUSLY i didnt use an SPL meter or i probably would have mentioned that somewhere, dont you think??
i hope you werent trying to impress anyone by sounding "smart" in your post, because all you were is insulting.

 

[Hutzal]

well let me start by saying this was no review, but instead a BRIEF COMPARISON by a somewhat NOOB, intended to be found possibly useful by somebody else like me, who may be faced with the decision of a mid grade amp or going to the next level.

so OBVIOUSLY i didnt use an SPL meter or i probably would have mentioned that somewhere, dont you think??
i hope you werent trying to impress anyone by sounding "smart" in your post, because all you were is insulting.

Didn't mean to be insulting, I appologize for that.

All I am saying is that you might have been able to save some money (and keep your current av receiver, in this case the 659) if you invested in an SPL meter and calibrated your speakers.

The single most reason why you didn't hear as much "surround" effects is because your levels were not correct, there is no other solution.

In the end, you may have been able to save some money just by keeping your current reciever and purchasing an SPL meter to make it sound better.

If you were attempting a review on the recievers based on their auto calibration softwear (for someone who has no interest in using an SPL meter) then it sounds like the pioneer comes out on top which is good to know for those who just want to plug in and go. On that regard, it was a good review.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

i hope you werent trying to impress anyone by sounding "smart" in your post, because all you were is insulting.[/QUOTE]

I think he was just giving you advise on how to compare apples to apples. Most people on here give great pride to properly tuning their systems so I believe he was just saying that a comparison would be more fair if you properly tuned both recievers. When you set the levels properly, both recievers would have a volume of "0" when your seating area is at 75db or whatever you want your reference volume to be.

I would seriously doubt that their is much of a difference in the sound of the two recievers if their was then I would probably have the same Elite as you purchased since it was first on my list. When I compared them they sounded enough alike that I had to put the price in the equation so the 659 won out. The Elite looked better and had a few more features (non that I cared about) but I coulnt justify the cost vs.performance.

That being said; you have a great reciever that matches your new TV and you should be proud. I bet it looks and sounds great!

 

[Stealth X]

well don't i feel a little silly now.

thanks guys. i can absolutely see your points about the yamaha not being inferior if properly calibrated. but i probably wont be buying an SPL meter anytime soon, so the auto calibration feature is key. add the fact my front speakers sounded alot better to me when bi amped (I turned of the mcacc, and was in pure direct 2 ch stereo) the ipod controls are better, and it matches my new tv, and hey its hard to resist.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Now that we are done with all this; how about some pictures? I love the look of the Elite plasma and would love to have got one but the whole price thing came into play again.

 

[Stealth X]

Now that we are done with all this; how about some pictures? I love the look of the Elite plasma and would love to have got one but the whole price thing came into play again.

thats my new TV in my avi... i couldnt be happier with it. i actually dont get the new AVR till mid month, they had to order it in.

EDIT:just occured to me how hard these avi's are to see here... i'll try to figure out how to post a bigger pic when i get home.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

thats my new TV in my avi... i couldnt be happier with it. i actually dont get the new AVR till mid month, they had to order it in.

EDIT:just occured to me how hard these avi's are to see here... i'll try to figure out how to post a bigger pic when i get home.

So you had it in your house to test it, it won but now you have to wait to get it? What's up with that?

Oh one more thing on the auto-cal issue. Does everything come out making sense when you do it? I just ask because when I do mine it seems to do an ok job at setting distance and eq but always gets the size wrong and the sub way off. It will set my cross-over anywhere between 160 and 200hz and changes the size of my speakers different each time. I guess that is the main reason why I lost faith in auto-cal and begin doing it manually. Plus it's fun to tinker around and figure things out on your own.

 

[nattyg]

No title

I've always found Yammies a bit cold in listening comparisons... but I've never substituted them in to my system, so, perhaps theres no value with that comment. But for sure, I'm enjoying my AX4avi. Its the Euro version of the 74. I know conversion was coming aka the 84, but I let my players manage video. And anyhow, I don't have so many sources of video it wasn't an issue.

I've been on the fence for a few months about buying a Pioneer, but Tom Landrt finally set me free. His review of the 82 was the first real reveiw I've read about the Pioneers the last few years ( he used the features, discussed the issues and explained his findings in a way we can relate - other sites or mags seem to rave about the pioneers, but without much real weight between the words). My only complaints are superficial - but overall the sound from moveis and music put me above most places I've been, and don't leave me sleepless thinking about why didnt' I go for the Arcam or full separates...

a bit of advice, follow Tom's suggestions in his review of the 82 and you'll be happy. I made the change from Large to Small after the MCACC and things filled out nicely.