Thorens spindle

[lovinthehd]

So are old cars and old Yamaha 2 stroke motorcycles.

Different end uses, stupid vinyl pieces aren't nearly as weird.

 

[TLS Guy]

I used to sell. . . .well, I carried at least, turntables from Nakamichi which had a cool feature where the turntable didn't care where the spindle hole was. Before play it launches a probe arm which plays the final inner ring and then—get this—physically moves the record laterally itself so rotation is around the true center of that ring regardless of where the hole is! WOW! Um, I mean lack of audible wow! Check it out. Many people think "Dragon" only means their cassette deck but this was also called Dragon:

There are other causes of wow but this one is a major one and clearly some people can't hear it because I've seen Fremmy post some videos where I can hear it but he obviously must be oblivious to it or else he wouldn't have posted the video!

Gratuitous complexity on display here. The only part of that rig worth having is the SME PU arm clearly visible.

 

[m. zillch]

Like I wrote:

clearly some people can't hear it because I've seen Fremmy post some videos where I can hear it but he obviously must be oblivious to it or else he wouldn't have posted the video!

 

[highfigh]

Also I find that after a few plays the hole gets bored out on its own via wear 'n' tear.

How? The LP isn't turning on the spindle.

 

[highfigh]

I am sure my rat tail file is as effective or likely better than his $50 or $60 cutting gizmo. Probably costs 4 or 5 bucks at Menards. And another buck for the red file handle. But at least from the video, it's obvious I am not the only one with this issue. I think he said it's more common with 180 g newer issues. I'm not sure that that's true. It might be. I'll have to keep track now. But my Phoebe Snow record is an original issue from 1975 or thereabouts and that one I had to file out. In fact I had my sisters and stepmom over and I was looking forward to playing this record for them because it is quite amazing. Such a great record and I wanted them to hear it on my new turntable. So I was bummed. It didn't fit! This was very shortly after I got the Thorens turntable. I knew I had the file in my toolbox (it's basically never been used for anything. I'm not going to use an old ratty dirty ass file on my records), but I didn't take the time to go get the file. I just "filed" it away in my mind that that's what I was going to do in the future, was file it out if it happens again and it sure has. Incidentally, I found that album now on a Digital Compact Classics gold CD a few months back.

Did you rotate the file counter-clockwise? That would remove less material and prevent the file digging into the plastic, making it cut too aggressively and making it necessary to turn it counterclockwise for removal.

 

[Squishman]

Did you rotate the file counter-clockwise? That would remove less material and prevent the file digging into the plastic, making it cut too aggressively and making it necessary to turn it counterclockwise for removal.

I never paid attention to the direction. I tip the record a tad here and there whilst doing the whole 3 or 4 second process. I am not really turning the file. I am turning the record. Actually, the maximum diameter of the file is only .286", so you don't necessarily hold just the handle. You partially hold the file or maybe just your thumb on the file so that the record doesn't drop all the way to the handle.

 

[TLS Guy]

I never paid attention to the direction. I tip the record a tad here and there whilst doing the whole 3 or 4 second process. I am not really turning the file. I am turning the record. Actually, the maximum diameter of the file is only .286", so you don't necessarily hold just the handle. You partially hold the file or maybe just your thumb on the file so that the record doesn't drop all the way to the handle.

I am really surprised by this thread. I have a large LP collection, and I have never encountered this problem. The difference is that I don't think I have any LPs newer than about 30 years. It tells me modern manufacture is sloppy. I wonder where that responsibility lies?

 

[highfigh]

I never paid attention to the direction. I tip the record a tad here and there whilst doing the whole 3 or 4 second process. I am not really turning the file. I am turning the record. Actually, the maximum diameter of the file is only .286", so you don't necessarily hold just the handle. You partially hold the file or maybe just your thumb on the file so that the record doesn't drop all the way to the handle.

Why are you filing at an angle, so the hole will be conical, allowing for less material removal and easier to make it fit without the hole being too large? What is the Newton reference?


There is absolutely zero difference between turning the file or record and at .286", the difference of .004" DOES matter if the LP's hole is actually off-center and the LP is placed on the mat such that the .004" is added to the line across the deviation. If the error is already visible, it's far more than .004", so you would definitely see the headshell moving side to side- a smaller deviation would make the stylus move more than the headshell, but it really should be centered. I have seen LPs that had off-center holes, but can't think of any that didn't fit onto the spindle. This is odd.

Where the LPs stored in a place where the temperature was high? I have read comments from people who stored their collection in an attic- I would never do or recommend that.

 

[Squishman]

I am really surprised by this thread. I have a large LP collection, and I have never encountered this problem. The difference is that I don't think I have any LPs newer than about 30 years. It tells me modern manufacture is sloppy. I wonder where that responsibility lies?

It'll be interesting to see if I have more like the Phoebe Snow LP that are 50 or more years old that need to be tweaked.

 

[Squishman]

There is absolutely zero difference between turning the file or record and at .286", the difference of .004" DOES matter if the LP's hole is actually off-center and the LP is placed on the mat such that the .004" is added to the line across the deviation. If the error is already visible, it's far more than .004", so you would definitely see the headshell moving side to side- a smaller deviation would make the stylus move more than the headshell, but it really should be centered. I have seen LPs that had off-center holes, but can't think of any that didn't fit onto the spindle. This is odd.

Where the LPs stored in a pace where the temperature was high? I have read comments from people who stored their collection in an attic- I would never do or recommend that.

They are in the living room at room temp at all times. Why do you think you have to explain that turning the record is the same as turning the file? I generally turn the record counter-clockwise, but this process is about 3 or 4 seconds. Probably less. You don't think I'd notice if my headshell was swimming to and fro afterwards? It hasn't and it won't be. As far as the diameter of my file, this is why I tip it at a bit of an angle.

 

[m. zillch]

How? The LP isn't turning on the spindle.

If you have either a hole that is too small or a spindle that's too fat if you apply pressure you can still get the record on the platter and with some effort hopefully remove it too, and after a while this repeated process tends to slightly enlarge the hole. As a guy in this thread, "Thing Fish", puts it:
"They normally sort themselves out over time."

Its basically the same thing as the pencil/pen trick but applied over time rather than all in one session. Perhaps my specific use of the term "bore" was inaccurate but I think you get the idea.

This tool another guy recommended in that thread looks rather high tech and rumor has it it is a multi-tool with other functions too!

 

[TLS Guy]

It'll be interesting to see if I have more like the Phoebe Snow LP that are 50 or more years old that need to be tweaked.

No idea who Phoebe Snow is. My oldest LP, the first one I bought is a 10" HMV LP of Handel Organ concertos 2 and 4. I bought it in 1954 or 5. Still plays fine.

 

[Squishman]

No idea who Phoebe Snow is. My oldest LP, the first one I bought is a 10" HMV LP of Handel Organ concertos 2 and 4. I bought it in 1954 or 5. Still plays fine.

She sang the hit "Poetry Man" in 1974. It's on this album. Google description says:

Musical Style

• • Jazzy and fluid: Features a relaxed, blues-inflected folk-pop arrangement.
  • Vocal delivery: Showcases Snow's unique, warbly, multi-octave voice that mimics the phrasing of a horn or guitar.
  • Instrumentation: Highlighted by smooth acoustic guitar picking and a purring saxophone solo by jazz legend Zoot Sims