Marantz av20 Audyssey x setup tuning problems

[ssmokeyy]

Tested and its fixed. So I will try to say it better. I have 3 runs of 10ga 2 runs of 12ga going into the run. I had the plate amp on a 30 amp breaker to a single outlet. Next box over had had 2 outlets off one 10ga line that was only a 20 amp. So I moved the 30 amp breaker for some headroom. Than I plugged in plate 4000, apc battery avr system that runs the av20, bluray player, apple, shield , Xbox and anthem 5 channel amp. To that single 30 amp breaker. Noise gone. Room is silent again. The starke sound and plate 1200, psa plate have different outlets and not making noise.

 

[ssmokeyy]

I built that room out originally in 2006 at our lake home. That was in a built home, so there was reconstruct. The speakers I designed and built 2005 and 2006. Then we got a bit "long in the tooth" for lake life, and we built a home in the MSP suburb of Eagan 2018 to 2019. So I had a free hand to design the room. Uninstalling and reinstalling the equipment was a lot of work. Plus my wife wanted an in wall system in our great room, so I had to design and built that out, at speed. We also had to move the family room system from the lake home.

The only major addition in the move originally was the addition of four Atmos speakers.

The equipment now is pretty much as you see in the picture, but the Marantz 7705 has been replaced by an AV 10 and an old Marantz DVD/SACD player removed.

The back of the AV 10 installed.

Rear speaker wiring.

Front speaker wiring.

One of the things you have to pay special attention to is cable and Internet connection. So you need to be with the installer and make them do it properly, especially the grounding. They are industrial ground loop creators.

So you need an ethernet patch bay.

An Ethernet patch bay is in there. The cable modem is Arris. There is Cat 6 running to all fixed units. Only mobile devices connect wirelessly. All fixed units have Cat 6 Internet connections. There are two 19" Internet hubs in the studio racks, and local hubs in the other two systems and out office.

All cables in wall that are not accessible run in conduit, to allow for easy change of cables if required. No walls have to be opened up. It has worked very well.

There is equipment in the rig that spans over 60 years, most of which I have owned since new.

The speaker system is largely designed as Aperiodic transmission lines. In the main AV room, all the speakers are aperiodic TLs, except the surrounds and ceiling speakers which are sealed.

The rig even plays antique 78 rpm records, and the venerable Quad 22 preamp I bought in 1968 has all the right playback eq for the old 78 record brands.

Front of AV room showing right and left active triamped aperiodic transmission lines. Center biamped transmission line. It is a through wall design.

These speakers have active infinitely variable baffle step compensation allowing for optimal tuning of the speakers for their position in the room. This is something unique to this system, although JBL briefly copied it on a very costly system, they had to fly someone out to set up.

Rear TL speakers and sealed surrounds.

In wall Great room system with in wall transmission line sub.

2 channel family room system.

That is pretty much a synopsis of what we have here.

Nice setup.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Fix everything I listed but the low bass output
Need to fix audessey x.

 

[TLS Guy]

Fix everything I listed but the low bass output
Need to fix audessey x.

How does it sound without Audyssey? If the system is any good it will sound really good without Audyssey. I do not use Audyssey, which is off, and I did not purchase Dirac, and the system does not need touching.

 

[ssmokeyy]

The system sounded good with audessey off. I paid the $200 for audessey x. I had dirc live with the integra and I'm not sold on n it. First time using audessey x. I have used all the others. Only thing that's off is the subs. Towers sound great. When I used audessey I hit delete auto leveling on the subs. The audessey group said this is the right wat ro bring the bass back. I would say its still 6 dB to soft. So I built a crossover target for just the subs with a 5bdb jump starting at 20 hz set wide. So. At 40nhz its only a 1db bump. I.need to re run audessey to set all the amps back to the correct specs. Thinking I play with bumping the gains 3 dB and building a target with 2 dB, any better ideas?

 

[TLS Guy]

The system sounded good with audessey off. I paid the $200 for audessey x. I had dirc live with the integra and I'm not sold on n it. First time using audessey x. I have used all the others. Only thing that's off is the subs. Towers sound great. When I used audessey I hit delete auto leveling on the subs. The audessey group said this is the right wat ro bring the bass back. I would say its still 6 dB to soft. So I built a crossover target for just the subs with a 5bdb jump starting at 20 hz set wide. So. At 40nhz its only a 1db bump. I.need to re run audessey to set all the amps back to the correct specs. Thinking I play with bumping the gains 3 dB and building a target with 2 dB, any better ideas?

Leave it off then. My view is that the whole concept of room correction is based on highly suspect sonic science and in my view is highly suspect. I get on very well indeed without it.

 

[lovinthehd]

The system sounded good with audessey off. I paid the $200 for audessey x. I had dirc live with the integra and I'm not sold on n it. First time using audessey x. I have used all the others. Only thing that's off is the subs. Towers sound great. When I used audessey I hit delete auto leveling on the subs. The audessey group said this is the right wat ro bring the bass back. I would say its still 6 dB to soft. So I built a crossover target for just the subs with a 5bdb jump starting at 20 hz set wide. So. At 40nhz its only a 1db bump. I.need to re run audessey to set all the amps back to the correct specs. Thinking I play with bumping the gains 3 dB and building a target with 2 dB, any better ideas?

Curious, are you limiting correction by schroder frequency? Many do like a bass bump so not unusual in that sense. Can't you just go back to your original Audyssey results rather than re-run the whole thing? MultEQ-X does have some nice flexibility, but so does the editor app.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Fixing some of these problems I had to move things and the amps gains were moved. So I need to reset gains and it was only like 20 mins for 8 spots. Kinda funny I feel that audessey does a great job with the kids and high but kills bass. Dirac live did a good job with bas but sucks at mids and highs
.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Fixing some of these problems I had to move things and the amps gains were moved. So I need to reset gains and it was only like 20 mins for 8 spots. Kinda funny I feel that audessey does a great job with the kids and high but kills bass. Dirac live did a good job with bas but sucks at mids and highs
.

Yeah, most of us don’t like a flat bass. Whether we use room correction or not, we want more bass to our liking.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Been watching some movies and listening to some music. I have a nasty null right at my seat. I have tried tuning had this problem with dirac and audessey so not one is better than the other. I have 5 15's in a 13 x 15 x 7 room. 2 subs back left 2 subs up front, 1 sub middle right. Only placement options in this room. Not a big room. I have double layer sound abortion on walls 40-50% covered. The upper med really needed it to fix decay. Each sub helped some but not a ton. If u move to any other seat its like a 5db bump. Second thing. Sub 20hz isnt what I would like to see on graph. Subs are si sql 15's in have tons of power on tap not the problem. I was thinking of at a ported dual 15 or maybe dual 18 dayton ultimax v2 setup for 30hz and below. But I also worry this null will kill thay also.

 

[TLS Guy]

Been watching some movies and listening to some music. I have a nasty null right at my seat. I have tried tuning had this problem with dirac and audessey so not one is better than the other. I have 5 15's in a 13 x 15 x 7 room. 2 subs back left 2 subs up front, 1 sub middle right. Only placement options in this room. Not a big room. I have double layer sound abortion on walls 40-50% covered. The upper med really needed it to fix decay. Each sub helped some but not a ton. If u move to any other seat its like a 5db bump. Second thing. Sub 20hz isnt what I would like to see on graph. Subs are si sql 15's in have tons of power on tap not the problem. I was thinking of at a ported dual 15 or maybe dual 18 dayton ultimax v2 setup for 30hz and below. But I also worry this null will kill thay also.

You are engaging in a bunch of nonsense BS, and working hard to produce just the awful results you are achieving.

What you have on your walls is certainly an abortion, but I think you are trying to create sound absorption. However from what I can tell either term would be appropriate.

I think you have way too many subs, probably all fighting each other.

Now simplify, and simplify.

But a sub next to each front main speaker, and for now ditch the rest.

Now turn off Audyssey and Dirac, and just run your system straight and set the sub output to where it sounds best to you.

You might well have to remove all that SQ ruining garbage from your walls.

You have created an abortion alright and now you have to start unscrambling the foul eggs.

 

[ssmokeyy]

The only way i could put subs next to the towers would require me putting the towers on top of the sub cabinets.

 

[TLS Guy]

The only way i could put subs next to the towers would require me putting the towers on top of the sub cabinets.

Well put them somewhere close by, and get them as close as you can. Obviously you are doing something the violate the acoustical laws of physics. Pictures would be very helpful.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

With so many subs available. Is there a way to do a near field placement?

 

[ssmokeyy]

I wish William. The right middle is 30 inches from the side of the main seat. I wanted to do behind but not enough room. I might be able to do 10's behind the front row of seats. Not sure a box of 10's would help much here. The left rear sub box with 2 15's is 6 ft from the main seats. Today i will take pics and post so everyone can see what I'm working with.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Pics of the room. Had to resize

 

[TLS Guy]

Pics of the room. Had to resize

Lots of issues. First those look like Klipsch speakers, which are a dreadful earful. Next that room looks to be way, way too dead. That does not produce good sound. The best sound comes from a room that is somewhat live and with speakers whose on axis and off axis response closely match. That is not what I see here. All of this room treatment comes about as there are too many lousy speakers, with an off axis response that does not match the axis response.
Next those front speakers are too close together, but I don't see much you can do about that. However, you might well be better off without a center speaker. With the close proximity of those speakers I would bet there is a lot of speaker to speaker interference.
As far as subs go you don't have a lot of options for placement. It looks to be a fairly small room, and you might get on best with just the front sub. That room definitely needs livening up by the looks of it.
I have never ever used any specific acoustic deadening materials. I have had a number of different houses over the years, and I have to say, I never got poor sound in any of the rooms I have had. This current room is the best, but then I had the opportunity to design and build it with optimal room dimension ratios. But when it comes down to it, the major determinant of good reproduction is excellent speakers.

 

[ssmokeyy]

I know people either love or hate klipsch no middle ground. I think they do a great job for movies. That being said the front 3 will be changed at the end of the year. Either to paradigm or the new klipsch 3 way speakers. Yes the room is small 13 x 15. Also I had to install a hushbox in the middle. House hvac vents into the room. So building a hushbox fixed the noise going back into the vents. So with out the sound control I added I had way to many reflections. I tried one sub to start than 2 sub placements. The null was worse with just one. It been getting better with more subs but still its a null. One idea I have been playing with I n to remove movies and stands put the double 15 from the front to the right rear. And install a double 18 ported tuned to 20 hz. Or build a box for the right rear and leave the 15's up front. I would probably cut the 18's at 40hz play them at 40hz and below. Just an idea.

 

[TLS Guy]

I know people either love or hate klipsch no middle ground. I think they do a great job for movies. That being said the front 3 will be changed at the end of the year. Either to paradigm or the new klipsch 3 way speakers. Yes the room is small 13 x 15. Also I had to install a hushbox in the middle. House hvac vents into the room. So building a hushbox fixed the noise going back into the vents. So with out the sound control I added I had way to many reflections. I tried one sub to start than 2 sub placements. The null was worse with just one. It been getting better with more subs but still its a null. One idea I have been playing with I n to remove movies and stands put the double 15 from the front to the right rear. And install a double 18 ported tuned to 20 hz. Or build a box for the right rear and leave the 15's up front. I would probably cut the 18's at 40hz play them at 40hz and below. Just an idea.

Reflections are in the main not a problem. Choose your next speakers very carefully. It is too bad you can't get two subs up front. One other thing you might try is just two in the back. Your room is nearly square, so you are likely to have null and peak issues. I can't stress enough that really good speakers minimize room problems. If you like movies, I would take a good look at the KEF line, as KEF speakers really shine in that regard, because of their excellent coaxial drivers. Keep away from Klipsch, I know that have clear dialog, but it is not natural speech. Speakers that can produce both clear and natural speech are far and few between. That is particularly true of center speakers, which as a group, tend to be the poorest of the bunch. Good center speakers are the biggest design challenge of all.

 

[ssmokeyy]

These aren't the Walmart specials. These are the rp line. I have two friends with kef mid level speakers and I do not like the sound. I also have a living room setup with def tech speakers. I think Def tech sounds better. The brands I like the sound is paradigm founder / premier , def tech, upper level klipsch, elec mid level i have heard. Focal can be ok with alot of eq. I hated svs and emotiva speakers. Heard svs high end and mid level towers from emotiva.