Thermal shutdown

[PENG]

So when I mentioned that I used the Denon to power the Philharmonic 3, Dynaudio, Focal, Infinity, B&W, Revel, KEF, TAD, were you making fun of all these speakers’ designs?

That’s what I thought you were doing.

You got me curious, because I remember you had sold some of your expensive speakers including the 802 diamond, a B&W bookshelf (forgot the model number) reference model that had frequency response that looked like a straight flat line, a funny looking unusual designed (forgot the manufacturer name altogether but if you do, please jog my memory) speaker designed by a well known engineer type. Then you went with the same gigantic RBH that I believe Gene had at the time. So what happened now, that made you go back to the big R2D2 style B&W diamond, a higher model this time? How much are those selling for now.

By the way, if I remember right @TLS Guy had once mentioned a pair of B&W, 800 series irrc, that were not his but a friend or something, sounded good to him. Just because they fit the bill of hard to drive, doesn't mean they can't sound great and I never thought he had ever said the B&W diamonds didn't sound good or bad overall anyway. So, in the case of those R2D2 speakers, we can say they might have decided to go for the sound quality, and seemingly focussed more on the on axis performance, but are willing to sacrifice "drivability". And I think they (the designed team) might have won the argument and supported by their marketing bosses, that if people are in the position to buy such >$20,000 speakers, they are not going to worry about amplifier requirements.

 

[TLS Guy]

You got me curious, because I remember you had sold some of your expensive speakers including the 802 diamond, a B&W bookshelf (forgot the model number) reference model that had frequency response that looked like a straight flat line, a funny looking unusual designed (forgot the manufacturer name altogether but if you do, please jog my memory) speaker designed by a well known engineer type. Then you went with the same gigantic RBH that I believe Gene had at the time. So what happened now, that made you go back to the big R2D2 style B&W diamond, a higher model this time? How much are those selling for now.

By the way, if I remember right @TLS Guy had once mentioned a pair of B&W, 800 series irrc, that were not his but a friend or something, sounded good to him. Just because they fit the bill of hard to drive, doesn't mean they can't sound great and I never thought he had ever said the B&W diamonds didn't sound good or bad overall anyway. So, in the case of those R2D2 speakers, we can say they might have decided to go for the sound quality, and seemingly focussed more on the on axis performance, but are willing to sacrifice "drivability". And I think they (the designed team) might have won the argument and supported by their marketing bosses, that if people are in the position to buy such >$20,000 speakers, they are not going to worry about amplifier requirements.

It was the D3s I measured with the silver cones and not the earlier ones with the yellow kevlar cones, which did not sound good. I can't find the impedance curve, but hear are the FRs, the black line is 90 degrees of axis. The axis and off axis responses were pretty good.

Axis

Axis and off axis responses.

I don't seem to have a record any more of the previous versions with the Kevlar cones, but it was not pretty. The yellow kevlar cones were driven well into their break up mode and sounded like it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You got me curious, because I remember you had sold some of your expensive speakers including the 802 diamond…

Here is the Stereophile measurement of the B&W D3:

Bowers & Wilkins 802 D3 Diamond loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Bowers & Wilkins 802 D3 Diamond's frequency response in the farfield; I used an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield frequency responses. (For logistical reasons, I measured a different...

www.stereophile.com

Here is the B&W D2 (they called them “Diamond” during this time when I bought mine):

B&W 800 Diamond loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the B&W 800 Diamond's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. For logistical reasons, the loudspeaker I measured was not one of the samples...

www.stereophile.com

And here is the B&W D1:

B&W 802D loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I estimated the B&W 802D's voltage sensitivity as 89dB(B)/2.83V/m, within experimental error of the specified 90dB figure and usefully higher than the average of the more than 500 speakers I have measured in the past 16 years. The B&W's impedance plot (fig.1) reveals the...

www.stereophile.com

Here is the B&W D4:

Bowers & Wilkins 801 D4 Signature loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements For logistical reasons, I measured one of the 801 D4 Signature speakers, serial number 2320 0004094 FP 44229, in Tom Fine's listening room rather than at my home. (My thanks to Tom and Mike Barney for moving furniture to allow me sufficient room for the measurements with...

www.stereophile.com

Do you see much of a difference between the D4 vs D3 vs D2 vs D1?

They look almost identical. Typical B&W, doesn’t matter if the drivers are black or yellow.

Nobody buys B&W for great measurements.

People buy B&W because they love the sound and aesthetic and pride of ownership.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You got me curious, because I remember you had sold some of your expensive speakers including the 802 diamond, a B&W bookshelf (forgot the model number) reference model that had frequency response that looked like a straight flat line, a funny looking unusual designed (forgot the manufacturer name altogether but if you do, please jog my memory) speaker designed by a well known engineer type. Then you went with the same gigantic RBH that I believe Gene had at the time. So what happened now, that made you go back to the big R2D2 style B&W diamond, a higher model this time? How much are those selling for now.

By the way, if I remember right @TLS Guy had once mentioned a pair of B&W, 800 series irrc, that were not his but a friend or something, sounded good to him. Just because they fit the bill of hard to drive, doesn't mean they can't sound great and I never thought he had ever said the B&W diamonds didn't sound good or bad overall anyway. So, in the case of those R2D2 speakers, we can say they might have decided to go for the sound quality, and seemingly focussed more on the on axis performance, but are willing to sacrifice "drivability". And I think they (the designed team) might have won the argument and supported by their marketing bosses, that if people are in the position to buy such >$20,000 speakers, they are not going to worry about amplifier requirements.

The KEF 201/2 had the flat FR.

I have always loved the B&W 800D aesthetics. But I am not buying them again. They cost like $35K now.

But I still talk about them in general.

 

[TLS Guy]

The KEF 201/2 had the flat FR.

I have always loved the B&W 800D aesthetics. But I am not buying them again. They cost like $35K now.

But I still talk about them in general.

You call my speakers “garage” speakers, and then you have that speaker on the right with a magnet full face on! That is sure the proverbial “kettle calling the pot black!”

 

[flyboylr45]

The 802D2s don’t sound good? Jeez, they’re not as dynamic as the SVTRSs but damn…. I regret selling them… I looked at the 802D4s for my family room but like ADTG said, they’re $34000!!!

Also regret selling all the MC stuff

 

[PENG]

The KEF 201/2 had the flat FR.

I have always loved the B&W 800D aesthetics. But I am not buying them again. They cost like $35K now.

But I still talk about them in general.

So what is the one that has a very technical and scientific name that sounded like a math function or a Russian (may be East European, or Scandinavian) physicist/engineer type who had a website that was full of highly technical stuff on it. It wasn't a popular speaker at all, but you had it at the time when you seemed to be open to all sorts of high end/expensive speakers. What brand/model was that one?

 

[BFreidah]

The OP here is probably wise in staying away from the pissing contest his post has generated. I left the AVS forum to avoid that. Hope this is an acception

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So what is the one that has a very technical and scientific name that sounded like a math function or a Russian (may be East European, or Scandinavian) physicist/engineer type who had a website that was full of highly technical stuff on it. It wasn't a popular speaker at all, but you had it at the time when you seemed to be open to all sorts of high end/expensive speakers. What brand/model was that one?

The only other bookshelf speakers I recall were from TAD and ATC. There was a bookshelf that someone sent me to audition, but I can’t recall the name. There might have been others, but I don’t recall.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You call my speakers “garage” speakers, and then you have that speaker on the right with a magnet full face on! That is sure the proverbial “kettle calling the pot black!”

Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design

Design and consultation in electro-acoustics. Fundamental concepts of sound reproduction in rooms. Detailed design information for DIY construction of a subwoofer and an open-baffle speaker with exceptional fidelity. Dipole loudspeaker design for true to the original sound reproduction with...

www.linkwitzlab.com

The Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1 fully active speaker system was considered by some critics (especially The Audio Critic) to be among the best in the world.

The Two Towers required an external crossover/DSP and 8Ch of power amplifiers by either ATI or Bryston amps, which added a few more thousands.

They were built by a real audio company by Siegfried Linkwitz, with many real customers who actually paid a lot of real money for them and truly loved them. They were reviewed by many real critics and real big time publications throughout the world.

Siegfried Linkwitz didn’t have to pat himself in the back and rave about how his speakers were so much better than other people’s speakers - he actually had thousands of people doing that for him.

I paid $9,000 for those Orions, as did many people. Plus the 8Ch amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 802D2s don’t sound good? Jeez, they’re not as dynamic as the SVTRSs but damn…. I regret selling them… I looked at the 802D4s for my family room but like ADTG said, they’re $34000!!!

Also regret selling all the MC stuff


View attachment 75615

During the time I owned those speakers, some people preferred the sound of the B&W 802D2 over all the other speakers I owned in a single-blind test.

 

[PENG]

The only other bookshelf speakers I recall were from TAD and ATC. There was a bookshelf that someone sent me to audition, but I can’t recall the name. There might have been others, but I don’t recall.

I wasn’t thinking bout those, but you answered my question through TLDGuy lol.. It was the Linkwitz Orion. I just don’t remember how they look so even if you included them in the picture I couldn’t tell they were the Linkwitz.

At the time, I was surprised you would actually owned that one, one that was so different than the others, but I guess you wanted something active after getting rid of the Deftechs that were sort of active?

Of all those, I assume your favorite was the big RBH?

I guess I am derailing the OP’s thread. Hopefully he won’t mind because we might have given him the feedback he needed already.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wasn’t thinking bout those, but you answered my question through TLDGuy lol.. It was the Linkwitz Orion. I just don’t remember how they look so even if you included them in the picture I couldn’t tell they were the Linkwitz.

At the time, I was surprised you would actually owned that one, one that was so different than the others, but I guess you wanted something active after getting rid of the Deftechs that were sort of active?

Of all those, I assume your favorite was the big RBH?

I guess I am derailing the OP’s thread. Hopefully he won’t mind because we might have given him the feedback he needed already.

We’re not derailing, we’re trying to keep those damn spams from infecting.

Well, at that time in my life, I was listening to a lot of people telling me how one speaker was better than another. The critics raved about the Orions, saying they were the best.

Today some people are still saying that active speakers are the best- that passive speakers aren’t as good.

And I also thought the Orions looked cool.

Yeah, the RBH T2’s were among the 1st I auditioned and absolutely loved, but I thought they were kind of ugly. So I wanted the speakers to both look good to my eyes and sound good to my ears.

I almost bought the big KEF 207/2 towers (that kind of look like the B&W 800s), but didn’t have the space in my room, so I got the KEF 201/2.

After all the been-there-done-that, I sold everything and went back to the RBH towers. Luckily for me, by that time, RBH came out with the SX-T2 towers that had a CURVED cabinet, which is one of the prerequisites for me.