Is this what Dolby Atmos up-firing enabled speakers are suppose to sound like??

[Mike Up]

My back surround speakers weren't installed by the book. I found while they offer decent separation of sound effects, creating more zones of surround information, the overall presentation is actually better with just the 1 set of surround speakers. The presentation is better because I can position better for acoustics and spot on clarity of sound effects that place them more precisely in a the sound field. It's hard to explain but sounds better. I never tried these speaker placements to hear this before.

So anyhow, I think I'm going to stick with one set of surround speakers making this a 5.1 system.

Now since I have another set of receiver outputs, I decided to try the Dolby Upfiring speakers. I don't want holes in my ceiling, period, so ceiling speakers aren't happening. So that left front height. That's a no go because I can't get anywhere close to the needed 45 degrees of down firing. With my living room arrangement, I'm at 62 degrees.

So I bought the Elac Debut 2.0 A4.2 Atmos enabled speakers for my system. They can be returned if I don't like them. Well, it's very difficult to explain. The upfiring speakers, just like back surrounds, don't alway play an important role in the sound and seem to just be idle or dublicating the sounds of the speakers by them some times.

What I found on some movies, is that I don't really get sound from above, just a taller front soundstage which is very insignificant. Still hard to tell if there really is a difference. Other movies, it is just very slight ambience that sounds different but is hard to pin point that there is a difference at all. Both of these were on the majority of movies I played, mostly Atmos but a couple of DD+ 5.1 soundtracks. After hearing this, I was ready to send the Atmos upfiring speakers back as they seemed to do very little if anything at all. Until the next movie I tried changed my mind.

What I noticed had the most top Atmos sound was from was the Aquaman, first movie, not second, in the war scenes. Only on this movie did I finally hear distinct sounds coming from above, and to the sides above. It was the only movie that I would say was really noticeable.

So is this to be expected?

Unlike my back surround speakers that weren't positioned ideally, the upfiring speakers were setup exactly by the book with smooth, painted 8' ceiling and the right height of the upfiring speaker, plus with the height difference set (speakers to ceiling) in the receiver, as well as the distance from listening position, and channel levels done with calibrated sound meter, and the such.

If my back surround speakers could be positioned more correctly, where there would be more distance behind me, they would offer the best, surround sound experience over using front upfiring atmos. However as it stands, the Up-Firing speakers make a positive difference on some movies, if barely noticeable on most movies.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, without in-ceiling speakers, you’re “missing” out in ATMOS because height speakers and especially up-firing speakers do not give the same experience.

 

[TLS Guy]

My back surround speakers weren't installed by the book. I found while they offer decent separation of sound effects, creating more zones of surround information, the overall presentation is actually better with just the 1 set of surround speakers. The presentation is better because I can position better for acoustics and spot on clarity of sound effects that place them more precisely in a the sound field. It's hard to explain but sounds better. I never tried these speaker placements to hear this before.

So anyhow, I think I'm going to stick with one set of surround speakers making this a 5.1 system.

Now since I have another set of receiver outputs, I decided to try the Dolby Upfiring speakers. I don't want holes in my ceiling, period, so ceiling speakers aren't happening. So that left front height. That's a no go because I can't get anywhere close to the needed 45 degrees of down firing. With my living room arrangement, I'm at 62 degrees.

So I bought the Elac Debut 2.0 A4.2 Atmos enabled speakers for my system. They can be returned if I don't like them. Well, it's very difficult to explain. The upfiring speakers, just like back surrounds, don't alway play an important role in the sound and seem to just be idle or dublicating the sounds of the speakers by them some times.

What I found on some movies, is that I don't really get sound from above, just a taller front soundstage which is very insignificant. Still hard to tell if there really is a difference. Other movies, it is just very slight ambience that sounds different but is hard to pin point that there is a difference at all. Both of these were on the majority of movies I played, mostly Atmos but a couple of DD+ 5.1 soundtracks. After hearing this, I was ready to send the Atmos upfiring speakers back as they seemed to do very little if anything at all. Until the next movie I tried changed my mind.

What I noticed had the most top Atmos sound was from was the Aquaman, first movie, not second, in the war scenes. Only on this movie did I finally hear distinct sounds coming from above, and to the sides above. It was the only movie that I would say was really noticeable.

So is this to be expected?

Unlike my back surround speakers that weren't positioned ideally, the upfiring speakers were setup exactly by the book with smooth, painted 8' ceiling and the right height of the upfiring speaker, plus with the height difference set (speakers to ceiling) in the receiver, as well as the distance from listening position, and channel levels done with calibrated sound meter, and the such.

If my back surround speakers could be positioned more correctly, where there would be more distance behind me, they would offer the best, surround sound experience over using front upfiring atmos. However as it stands, the Up-Firing speakers make a positive difference on some movies, if barely noticeable on most movies.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

Up firing speakers are just a pure con and fraud, and actually a downgrade and worse than a waste of money. There are no laws of acoustics or physical phenomena that could possible justify up firing speakers. They are just another scam to relieve you of money.

 

[Trebdp83]

Without Dolby Atmos or DTS:X signals, the Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X up mixer will need to be selected to make use of the up firing speakers. Selecting a straight decode of 5.1/7.1 signals will not make use of them.

You might also try using the Speaker Virtualizer in a 5.1 configuration to make use of Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization when playing Dolby Atmos signals. The Dolby Surround up mixer will need to be selected for non Atmos Dolby signals here as well. But, Denon does not allow up mixing of any Dolby signals using the DTS Virtual:X up mixer.

Sometimes less is more and a 5.1 configuration with optimally placed speakers is better than a configuration consisting of more speakers problematically placed. I also did not install speakers into or on my 8ft painted ceiling. Front up firing and wall mounted height speakers for 5.1.2 were a bust and I settled on 5.1 with Speaker Virtualizer ON. It sounds better to me than the up firing option. Results will vary of course.

 

[j_garcia]

I have ~20' vaulted ceilings and an open floorplan, meaning ceiling or on-wall are not going to happen for me. Atmos works for me with upfring speakers. They end up getting calibrated hot. The fronts are angled toward the front wall, the rears are angled toward the center of the listening area, so they are not relying solely on ceiling "bounce". It is not ideal, but it works. As Treb mentioned, it depends very much on the input as well.

It sounds like you have only 2 front heights? What you describe of a larger front stage is consistent with that, and similar to what I found. Without the rears heights also, that's what you're going to get out of just the front 2.

 

[Mike Up]

Well, without in-ceiling speakers, you’re “missing” out in ATMOS because height speakers and especially up-firing speakers do not give the same experience.

This may be true as my theater room is my main living room and I'm not destroying my ceiling for a format that may only last 10 years before the next big format comes around that requires different speaker placement.

Remember, Dolby Digital/PLUS/TRUE 7.1 previously required the surround and back surround speakers to be 3' above your ear level, now ATMOS wants it at ear level for their new format.

Height speakers just won't work and I'm not screwing box speakers to my ceiling either.

Even if not perfect with Atmos Enabled speakers, I did get laser shots that I could pin point to, that were off to the side, near the ceiling in Aquaman. Also the Movie Thunderbolts had some effects that could be pin pointed to.

Most are just background ambience but the action movie, action scenes, have shown some good effects 'finally'. I just wish it were on more movies.

The lesser ambient 'bubble' of sound on some other movies, does make the soundstage much larger to the ceiling on some scenes. There just seems to be a lot of idle time before you hear the effects of overhead Atmos.

If I had more room behind my sofa, I undoubted feel the rear back surround speakers would make more difference than even ceiling mounted speakers. I had great sound effects coming from my back surround speakers but they had to be so closely positioned to the listening area, the sound was overshooting the listening position. That's why having one set of surround speakers in my system sounded better when I placed them behind and off to the sides of the listening position as Dolby recommends. I still have to keep them about 1' above the ear level so everyone seated can hear them, and the closest person doesn't block the speaker output.

Dolby's position recommendation for Atmos are a bit ridiculous as if you are only going to have one person seated and no one else.

I did pay extra money at Emagine Theater to get the Atmos presentation last weekend. I will say, I'm more impressed with my system's overall Atmos surround sound effects and bass (overhead and all) than I was at the Emagine Theater.

 

[Mike Up]

Without Dolby Atmos or DTS:X signals, the Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X up mixer will need to be selected to make use of the up firing speakers. Selecting a straight decode of 5.1/7.1 signals will not make use of them.

You might also try using the Speaker Virtualizer in a 5.1 configuration to make use of Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization when playing Dolby Atmos signals. The Dolby Surround up mixer will need to be selected for non Atmos Dolby signals here as well. But, Denon does not allow up mixing of any Dolby signals using the DTS Virtual:X up mixer.

Sometimes less is more and a 5.1 configuration with optimally placed speakers is better than a configuration consisting of more speakers problematically placed. I also did not install speakers into or on my 8ft painted ceiling. Front up firing and wall mounted height speakers for 5.1.2 were a bust and I settled on 5.1 with Speaker Virtualizer ON. It sounds better to me than the up firing option. Results will vary of course.

My system now is 5.1.2 (Front upfiring) . The virtualizer sounded really bad, placing sound objects behind when they should had been in front. I was not impressed at all.

Using the Dolby Upmixer makes a noticeable difference with distinct placement but it's a rare occasion as more often than not, it is just ambience or nothing as it does little.

I just thought the overhead sound effect would be more active. Now I see it sits most of the time idle. I also thought that there would be more dramatic content to the overhead speakers but by everyones comments, there isn't.

When I took my daughter and friends to see Freakier Friday, I honestly thought I would be wowed by the overhead Atmos content. I was very disappointed in the Atmos experience that was more costly than the theater's standard surround sound.

 

[Mike Up]

I have ~20' vaulted ceilings and an open floorplan, meaning ceiling or on-wall are not going to happen for me. Atmos works for me with upfring speakers. They end up getting calibrated hot. The fronts are angled toward the front wall, the rears are angled toward the center of the listening area, so they are not relying solely on ceiling "bounce". It is not ideal, but it works. As Treb mentioned, it depends very much on the input as well.

It sounds like you have only 2 front heights? What you describe of a larger front stage is consistent with that, and similar to what I found. Without the rears heights also, that's what you're going to get out of just the front 2.

Yes, I only have the 2 front Atmos speakers. I couldn't use Atmos upfiring speakers on my surround speakers as they are tiny wall mounted speakers.

Thanks for sharing your actual experience with upfiring speakers. I just expected more overhead content in movies. It took me a while to go through my movie collection before I heard what I wanted to hear, then it wasn't all that often in those movies either.

Thanks.

 

[Mike Up]

I do believe I'm going to keep the Elac Atmos Enabled speakers as I have now heard what they can do even if they only do it rarely.

 

[Trebdp83]

Seems you have found the optimal configuration for your particular system and room constraints. Enjoy.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This may be true as my theater room is my main living room and I'm not destroying my ceiling for a format that may only last 10 years before the next big format comes around that requires different speaker placement.

Your ceiling is made of sheetrock like most ceilings?

If in 30 years and somehow surround in-ceiling speakers are obsolete (highly unlikely since in-ceiling speakers have been around for decades before ATMOS even came out), you can just cover up the ceiling holes.

IOW, sheetrock holes are not “PERMANENT”. People cover up sheetrock holes all the time on a daily basis.

When they were building my house, one of the crew was in the attic and accidentally tore a hole in the ceiling with his foot. Next day the hole easily disappeared. Haven’t you covered holes in your walls before? Heck, one of my daughters accidentally punched a hole in her bedroom wall last year. Easy to cover up Sheetrock.

But hey, you don’t need to convince us either way. Whatever works for you.

 

[j_garcia]

Watch Bladerunner 2049. It has the best Atmos activity I've heard in any film, and it is what others should be like. You are disappointed because it is used to expand the sound, rather than for discrete sound in most cases. Sort of like when we all went to 6.1/7.1 when it came out and were a bit underwhelmed. Try tweaking the Atmos speaker up 1dB and see if it improves it or if it becomes too noticeable.