Harmon to aquire B&W, Polk, Denon, and Marantz from Masimo

[lovinthehd]

Reminds me of all the sci-fi movies and TV series where corporations have their armies, run the world it seems. Is this the beginning.

There is one chilling scifi book that I can't remember author/title of, where there are no nations but everything divvied up by I think it was 6 or 7 corporations each controlling something vital. Our current version of capitalism could get there eventually....

Top search for such came up with this, which isn't it but similar concept it sounds like https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40861834-world-incorporated

Trying to remember which book it is now is going to bug me....I probably own it but....another search of a reddit discussion mentions Pohl & Kornbluth's The Space Merchants....Pohl sounds right but the title doesn't ring a bell but so do others mentioned.....arrggh didn't realize how many could fit the description.

 

[TLS Guy]

The whole subsidiary structure of corporations is probably one of the biggest factors for me getting into DIY alternatives, from food to anything else worth having. Food, was probably the first most noticeable trend for me and was what pushed me into growing my own and mostly from heirloom seeds. Not that I worry that there is going to be some sort of sudden product apocalypse, or anything like that, but brand name legacy or pride of ownership/loyalty, went out the window for me, decades ago, and DIY things tend to fill that void. Comparatively, things I have made myself, whether it be speakers, amps, fishing rods, tools and whatnot, feel rather rare, and perhaps even priceless.

I like Harmon products though and have owned some memorable products by them over the years. I like how their manufacturing power tends to bring products for everyone that punch well above their price point and how they are strong with innovation. That and, if the product doesn't stick, they end up being often times, greatly clearance priced.

I agree with you about DIY. But it goes beyond that. I think will will have to move away from big corporate entities and return to how it was in the fifties and sixties.

I had a chat with my long time dealer today. Between this mess and Trump's tariffs he is concerned from where his equipment will come form and at what cost.

So, may be well built and designed simpler better built and more reliable equipment is the way forward. The bulk of our speakers are now manufactured in China, now and that is crazy. So I told my dealer I can design good speakers, which he actually knows as he has heard many of my designs over the years. I have a good in with a C & C shop in MN. They are also skilled in excellent finishes. I think we will have to return to how things used to be in a hurry and that does not include making junk.

 

[Danzilla31]

I agree with you about DIY. But it goes beyond that. I think will will have to move away from big corporate entities and return to how it was in the fifties and sixties.

I had a chat with my long time dealer today. Between this mess and Trump's tariffs he is concerned from where his equipment will come form and at what cost.

So, may be well built and designed simpler better built and more reliable equipment is the way forward. The bulk of our speakers are now manufactured in China, now and that is crazy. So I told my dealer I can design good speakers, which he actually knows as he has heard many of my designs over the years. I have a good in with a C & C shop in MN. They are also skilled in excellent finishes. I think we will have to return to how things used to be in a hurry and that does not include making junk.

Heck we may just have to order from you

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All the info about purchase price at the time Masimo acquired Sound United put the price at just $1B....is the $1.5B to accommodate losses they're absorbing? Or were original reports way off?

I probably got the numbers wrong. But my focus was on the $8 Billion vs ($1 Billion - $400 Million) = $600 Million loss.

TLS guy has been on rant for weeks about the doom and gloom of Masimo’s Sound United losing millions while Yamaha had a decline of $8 billions in one year, which makes the Masimo loss seem like peanuts.

 

[lovinthehd]

I probably got the numbers wrong. But my focus was on the $8 Billion vs ($1 Billion - $400 Million) = $600 Million loss.

TLS guy has been on rant for weeks about the doom and gloom of Masimo’s Sound United losing millions while Yamaha had a decline of $8 billions in one year, which makes the Masimo loss seem like peanuts.

The ASR thread cited the 1.5B thing via an article but don't remember the source details. TLS is TLS, not particularly rational when it comes to avrs/pre-pros

 

[TLS Guy]

I probably got the numbers wrong. But my focus was on the $8 Billion vs ($1 Billion - $400 Million) = $600 Million loss.

TLS guy has been on rant for weeks about the doom and gloom of Masimo’s Sound United losing millions while Yamaha had a decline of $8 billions in one year, which makes the Masimo loss seem like peanuts.

Yamaha have much deeper pockets than Masimo! That difference is crucial to be putting this in perspective.

However no corporation is going to fund AV as a charity. So, things have to change.

Lets face it we walked into an era where to properly enjoy what was on offer required a purpose built room integral with the system. I know, I know, you can shoe horn this gear into suboptimal spaces. The results are suboptimal and risk a costly divorce on top of the equipment cost.

The fact is that two and three channel systems, and may be a sub, should have been dominant and NOT 11 or 13 plus a bunch of subs. This has gone off the rails of practicality and the ability to provide it at a price where the equipment is reliable.

For the cost lay out, the equipment should be built around at least auto grade components, to provide adequate longevity. However, that would place equipment beyond the reach of even more.

So, the focus has to shift to gear that is priced within the range of the majority of middle class families and is compatible with the interior design of most homes.

I am totally atypical ,and way at the end of what is essentially a loony spectrum and a lot of the rest of you hoping to catch up. However I revel in my insanity, and have been lucky enough to have had the skills to do it on the cheap.

That leads me to my last point. I expect most of you have noticed, that I am an old man, with the temperament to boot. I was however blessed with a good memory and a curiosity of how things worked and to improve them. At that simpler time many were building their own systems, electronics and systems both. The leaders of this burgeoning new industry were only too eager to help and share what they knew and were doing. Far from reducing sales, this did the exact opposite and created a fervor of enthusiasm in those now far off days.

As I have said before, a circuit diagram was pretty much always included in the user manual, especially by Peter Walker of Quad. He said, "no one will copy the designs, but I can and have had me designs improved for free!" That is true humility.

A huge share of this current debacle can be laid right at the door of MBAs and marketers, who I have long, and always will despise and hold in contempt.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yamaha have much deeper pockets than Masimo! That difference is crucial to be putting this in perspective.

However no corporation is going to fund AV as a charity. So, things have to change.

Lets face it we walked into an era where to properly enjoy what was on offer required a purpose built room integral with the system. I know, I know, you can shoe horn this gear into suboptimal spaces. The results are suboptimal and risk a costly divorce on top of the equipment cost.

The fact is that two and three channel systems, and may be a sub, should have been dominant and NOT 11 or 13 plus a bunch of subs. This has gone off the rails of practicality and the ability to provide it at a price where the equipment is reliable.

For the cost lay out, the equipment should be built around at least auto grade components, to provide adequate longevity. However, that would place equipment beyond the reach of even more.

So, the focus has to shift to gear that is priced within the range of the majority of middle class families and is compatible with the interior design of most homes.

I am totally atypical ,and way at the end of what is essentially a loony spectrum and a lot of the rest of you hoping to catch up. However I revel in my insanity, and have been lucky enough to have had the skills to do it on the cheap.

That leads me to my last point. I expect most of you have noticed, that I am an old man, with the temperament to boot. I was however blessed with a good memory and a curiosity of how things worked and to improve them. At that simpler time many were building their own systems, electronics and systems both. The leaders of this burgeoning new industry were only too eager to help and share what they knew and were doing. Far from reducing sales, this did the exact opposite and created a fervor of enthusiasm in those now far off days.

As I have said before, a circuit diagram was pretty much always included in the user manual, especially by Peter Walker of Quad. He said, "no one will copy the designs, but I can and have had me designs improved for free!" That is true humility.

A huge share of this current debacle can be laid right at the door of MBAs and marketers, who I have long, and always will despise and hold in contempt.

I think you overestimate the ability of most marketing/sales folk

 

[TLS Guy]

I think you overestimate the ability of most marketing/sales folk

You could be right, but I doubt it. They are an absolute pox on mankind!

 

[lovinthehd]

You could be right, but I doubt it. They are an absolute pox on mankind!

Sure, but well seated in any corporate environment I've had interaction with. Sort of who marketers are.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The ASR thread cited the 1.5B thing via an article but don't remember the source details. TLS is TLS, not particularly rational when it comes to avrs/pre-pros

This was what I got from searching online:

Sound United Audio's revenue declined from $562.1 million in the period ended September 30, 2023, to $465.6 million in the period ended September 28, 2024, a 17% decrease. Masimo acquired Sound United for $1.03 billion.

Sound United had a decline of $0.09 billion in one year.

Yamaha had a decline of $8.5 billions in one year.

We all know Yamaha is a much bigger company, but it still feels funny.

 

[TankTop5]

You could be right, but I doubt it. They are an absolute pox on mankind!

Hate it when I sell a project and a half dozen guys get to work and feed their families.

Back on topic… it’ll be great when Denon and Marantz flagship receivers go on 50% off factory direct sales and screw the small business retailers… s/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

TLS is TLS, not particularly rational when it comes to avrs/pre-pros

Good thing he doesn’t own a Yamaha AVP, especially one with any issues.

With Yamaha dropping $8.5 BILLION in ONE YEAR and haven’t made any new AVP in 5 years, he would have also made some Yamaha doom and gloom rants - The Demise of Yamaha. Oh No!

 

[highfigh]

I agree with you about DIY. But it goes beyond that. I think will will have to move away from big corporate entities and return to how it was in the fifties and sixties.

I had a chat with my long time dealer today. Between this mess and Trump's tariffs he is concerned from where his equipment will come form and at what cost.

So, may be well built and designed simpler better built and more reliable equipment is the way forward. The bulk of our speakers are now manufactured in China, now and that is crazy. So I told my dealer I can design good speakers, which he actually knows as he has heard many of my designs over the years. I have a good in with a C & C shop in MN. They are also skilled in excellent finishes. I think we will have to return to how things used to be in a hurry and that does not include making junk.

How could anyone satisfy the demands of the customers with the current population? The 1950 US population was about 155 Million and now, it's more than 340 Million- No small shop/operation can make enough and I would expect reliability to suffer. Ask your CNC shop how many speaker cabinets they could build and also, what will happen if they turn away business in order to cater to that one demand, then the demand dries up? Should they expand? How much, how quickly and how will they pay for it? All of their expenses will increase and new employees need to be trained.

The reason most speakers are made in China is because China (companies and government) OWN those brands, the manufacture of drivers and electronic components.

The only way we can return manufacturing to the US is by using migrant workers, the way agriculture/farming is run. They're the only ones who will work for low wages and that will result in more American workers being replaced.

If people become more patient, slower production rates won't be a problem but everyone has been conditioned to want MORE, MORE, MORE!, FASTER, FASTER, FASTER! Then, they complain about quality.

Talk to a contractor about "You can have good, fast, cheap- pick two, because you can't have all three".

 

[highfigh]

Hate it when I sell a project and a half dozen guys get to work and feed their families.

Back on topic… it’ll be great when Denon and Marantz flagship receivers go on 50% off factory direct sales and screw the small business retailers… s/

Denon has been selling direct for years- then, there's the refurb dealer- why would anyone want to be a real Denon dealer when they have to compete with that, other than because of the convenience of local distribution or customers who don't shop outside of whomever they buy from without checking anywhere else? Regular customers are like Gold and anyone who works mainly with repeat business & referrals knows that.

The internet killed B&M, China has killed non-centralized ownership and once again, govenments that can't get along are killing economies. Trump's tactics are similar to killing ants with nuclear bombs.

 

[highfigh]

Yamaha have much deeper pockets than Masimo! That difference is crucial to be putting this in perspective.

However no corporation is going to fund AV as a charity. So, things have to change.

Lets face it we walked into an era where to properly enjoy what was on offer required a purpose built room integral with the system. I know, I know, you can shoe horn this gear into suboptimal spaces. The results are suboptimal and risk a costly divorce on top of the equipment cost.

The fact is that two and three channel systems, and may be a sub, should have been dominant and NOT 11 or 13 plus a bunch of subs. This has gone off the rails of practicality and the ability to provide it at a price where the equipment is reliable.

For the cost lay out, the equipment should be built around at least auto grade components, to provide adequate longevity. However, that would place equipment beyond the reach of even more.

So, the focus has to shift to gear that is priced within the range of the majority of middle class families and is compatible with the interior design of most homes.

I am totally atypical ,and way at the end of what is essentially a loony spectrum and a lot of the rest of you hoping to catch up. However I revel in my insanity, and have been lucky enough to have had the skills to do it on the cheap.

That leads me to my last point. I expect most of you have noticed, that I am an old man, with the temperament to boot. I was however blessed with a good memory and a curiosity of how things worked and to improve them. At that simpler time many were building their own systems, electronics and systems both. The leaders of this burgeoning new industry were only too eager to help and share what they knew and were doing. Far from reducing sales, this did the exact opposite and created a fervor of enthusiasm in those now far off days.

As I have said before, a circuit diagram was pretty much always included in the user manual, especially by Peter Walker of Quad. He said, "no one will copy the designs, but I can and have had me designs improved for free!" That is true humility.

A huge share of this current debacle can be laid right at the door of MBAs and marketers, who I have long, and always will despise and hold in contempt.

You may be forgetting that many of the people who built their own equipment, systems, basements, furniture, etc (men, nostly) weren't allowed to slide through school without learning to read, do math, figure out how to do things and many had fathers who were tradesmen, they often took shop classes and learned to use tools, their hands and create. That ship sailed a long time ago and now, school systems are having to claw their way back to teaching trades, using tools and leading the students toward manufacturing because it eventually became clear as mud that not all students are 'college material'. Popular Mechanics, Popular Science and other DIY magazines were the source of ideas and the will to make something- sure, we have far more information available, but if someone has no idea which end of a screwdriver to pound on, they may as well be watching a movie because they surely won't be building anything. Also, DIY shows make a lot of tasks look easy, but that's only because they edit the video. In reality, the whole picture is missing too much to be usable.

Colleges started puking MBAs 50 years ago and it's because people became more interested in making a lot of money, rather than making things. Movies have commented on this, but the audiences were more interested in the love story, pretty people and shiny cars & objects, rather than the idea.

People who want a slower life sometimes achieve that, mostly by making enough money to leave the rat race. Too many people are victims of their own wants, which have replaced 'needs'. Nobody needs eight TVs but how can they watch their crappy programs easily without walking long distances through their 7000 square foot house? With the number of millionaires and billionaires, the number of huge houses has become a spectical and people want what they can't have. That means they want MORE. They want it all, regardless of the fact that they don't make enough money, will never make enough and don't have the skills to advance but that doesn't stop them.

 

[highfigh]

Good thing he doesn’t own a Yamaha AVP, especially one with any issues.

With Yamaha dropping $8.5 BILLION in ONE YEAR and haven’t made any new AVP in 5 years, he would have also made some Yamaha doom and gloom rants - The Demise of Yamaha. Oh No!

OK, but should his (or, any) AVP fail so soon after purchase? The expectation of equipment should work after the warranty ends isn't something he, or anyone, should give up.

 

[Trell]

You may be forgetting that many of the people who built their own equipment, systems, basements, furniture, etc (men, nostly) weren't allowed to slide through school without learning to read, do math, figure out how to do things and many had fathers who were tradesmen, they often took shop classes and learned to use tools, their hands and create. That ship sailed a long time ago .... [blah blah blah]

You might be forgetting that very many lives in apartments and quite simply does not have the place to have their own workshop with all the necessary tools. Also, buying the needed tools is for sure expensive if you want some quality.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yikes, all of this because some a$$hole cannot let go of any device they’ve ever owned and ruined the rear panel of two AVPs with several pounds of force from spaghetti wire? Somebody send this f#%ker an AV10 already and spare multiple forum threads of this crap.

 

[TLS Guy]

OK, but should his (or, any) AVP fail so soon after purchase? The expectation of equipment should work after the warranty ends isn't something he, or anyone, should give up.

That has been exactly the point I have been making for years. When you fork out a few grand, you have every right to expect it to perform for years after the warranty expires.