M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Here's a website that tracks the tariffs.


With all of the changes and uncertainty, it's unclear how any company can set up new supply chains with any confidence that they are not going to get burned.

I don't know for a fact that the following website is reliable, but the information appears to be legitimate:

>>>Electronics manufacturers can be expected to pass on higher tariffs to buyers. The Consumer Technology Association estimates that 10.0% broad-based tariffs would increase laptop computer prices by 45.0% and monitor prices by 31.2%, smartphone prices by 25.8%, lithium-ion batteries by 12.1%, computer accessories by 10.9%, connected devices by 10.2%, televisions by 9.0%, and desktop computers by 6.2%.

Electronic components originating from China, such as capacitors, resistors, LEDs, switches, or connectors, will raise input costs for domestic manufacturers reliant on these products. The tariff on semiconductor imports from China is now 60.0%, which can create more expensive challenges for buyers procuring electronic components.<<<


Meanwhile, Trump is taking the old "Let them eat sh*t" approach.

1746053731237.png


 
S

Sal1950

Junior Audioholic
Well past time we (US) made some moves to balance the trade business.
Things will work out fine in a year or so.
MAGA
Sal1950
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well past time we (US) made some moves to balance the trade business.
Things will work out fine in a year or so.
MAGA
Sal1950
This isn't the way to do it, tho. I doubt it will be fine in a year or so. Manufacturing won't suddenly reappear in the US in this environment. Just a clueless maga fantasy at this point.
 
T

trochetier

Full Audioholic
Trump's fleecing of Americans with import tax have begun, already at $17B. Wait and there is more coming when all the import taxes go into effect.


On a personal level living on a fixed income I curtailing all discretionary spending unless it has positive ROI.
 
J

JNagarya

Audiophyte
I have avoided commenting on this issue since Saturday's tariff announcement, because I'm only just now beginning to cool down. I believe I'm in a better place now, so here goes....

Modern international trade norms were established at the behest of the United States, beginning with General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), which eventually evolved into the World Trade Organization (WTO). The goal was to reduce/eliminate barriers to international trade, such as tariffs and quotas. In 1988, Canada and the US signed a Free Trade Agreement in an effort to reduce trade barriers between the two countries. In 1994, this agreement was renegotiated to include Mexico, creating the NAFTA. It wasn't perfect and never completely resolved trade issues but was an improvement on what existed before.

During his last term, DJT insisted NAFTA was a disaster and demanded that the pact be renegotiated. After months of churn and very little in the way of change, USMCA was signed and he proclaimed victory, calling it the best trade deal in the history of the world. Now, barely six years later, he is unhappy again and wants to put tariffs on pretty much every import. And, he wants to start with his closest trading partners. He has offered various excuses for 25% tariffs on imports from Canada and Mexico, depending on the day.

Excuses/Justifications:
  • Illegal migrants and fentanyl smuggling. While certainly a serious issue, Canada is a relatively small source of illegal migrants. Regarding fentanyl, the amount coming from Canada is a rounding error compared with the amount coming from Mexico and China. And, it isn't a one-way street. There is illegal migration, as well as drug and GUN smuggling from the US into Canada. Regardless, these issues are completely unrelated to trade and could be addressed as such. A trade war would not do anything to help.


  • Insufficient defence spending by Canada. You won't hear me say that Canada spends enough on defence. That said, our government has committed to increasing defence spending to the recommended NATO minimum of 2% of GDP. Not quickly enough, but we're working on it. The claim that the US is paying the cost of defending Canada could be debated until the cows come home. Fact is, only the US has invoked Article 5 of the NATO treaty, after the September 11th attacks. When US air space was shut down, 240-odd flights were diverted to airports in Canada. Had we not taken the risk to accept them, tens of thousand of lives would have been lost - the majority being American - when these flights crashed in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, as well as in the Arctic. While our military is not large, we sent troops to Afghanistan anyway. Between 2001 and 2014, over 40,000 served in the campaign. We never asked to be re-paid for their service or the cost incurred. Yet, Trump insists that we have a debt to repay.
Regardless, attempting to negatively impact our economy would only impede our ability to invest in defence. How is that helpful?



As the straw men, red herrings, dis- and misinformation get refuted, other reasons for tariffs are proffered, seemingly at random.
What Does Trump Really Want From Canada and Mexico? - The New York Times

How does anyone negotiate around that? And no, a "Canschluss" is not in the cards.

It's clear that the US - or, the current POTUS administration, at least - wishes to throw current international trade norms out the window. He appears to believe that the US would benefit from turning back the clock to the revenue-generating policies of the Gilded Age, featuring import tariffs and no income tax. Of course, that period featured a few obscenely rich, many wealthy, many more getting by comfortably....and a whole lot of poverty. If that's what he wants and Americans support it....well, that's his/their choice. However, outside DJT's orbit, the general consensus is that such a change in policy will lead to financial disaster.

While 25% tariffs against Canada and Mexico will have severe consequences for our economies, it will have serious ramifications for the US, as well. Believing otherwise is just whistling in the dark.
It's what Trump voters wanted, based on the falsehood that the US, with tariffs, is taxing sovereign countries outside US jurisdiction. That isn't how reality -- or tariffs -- work.

And we're seeing the same things with the denial of Constitutionally guaranteed due process: Trump name-calls, and his supporters believe it without question -- _ipso facto_ guilty.

Now there are US citizens being deported without due process, most notable a 2-year-old, and another child with Stage 4 cancer cut off from medical treatment and medications.
 
J

JNagarya

Audiophyte
I don't know that Canadian companies are engaged in unfair market practices/pricing, which are usually the reason tariffs are implemented but this time, it seems that Canada is being hit because of Trudeau.

If getting rid of Trudeau is the goal, Trump just needs to be patient because that particular problem has likely solved itself.
And Trump isn't calling Carney "governor".

The Liberals -- Carney -- won in Canada because the Conservative was identifying with Trump. And the Conservative also lost his provincial seat.
 
J

JNagarya

Audiophyte
I buy lumber from a lumber company that has existed for over 100 years and they compete very well with all of the big box stores because the materials they sell are far better. Chile has been one of the countries of origin marked on their lumber for many years- I can find out where they get various materials, but I haven't seen Canada as the main source. One US-based supplier was Plumb Creek, which owned 47 million acres of land- they merged with Weyerhauser.


Somehow, this will be figured out- if it isn't, heads need to roll.
"We the peoples'" heads are on the chopping block.
 
J

JNagarya

Audiophyte
That was my conclusion. I can't see how it was just a coincidence. Once tariffs are put in place, domestic producers hike prices because they no longer need to compete (I'm not blaming the company that stained and finished the shingles, of course, they have to buy the lumber on the open market)

As discussed in the article you posted a link to, the timing is terrible given the need for new homes due to the fires in California. The cost of new home construction was already through the roof before the fires and new homes are not being built fast enough to meet demand.

I suppose Trump will find a way to convince people that the inflation caused by the tariffs is the result of evil anti-American forces pulling strings behind the scenes.
Trump is the president, not Biden. But it will be Biden's fault.

Trump inherited a healthy economy, then tanked it by "downplaying" COVID. Even the right-of-center "Economist" gave high praise for Biden's economy. Now Trump is tanking the economy again.

And the "Project 2025" playbook is to deliberately destroy the economy in order to destroy the administrative state -- the #1 goal of "The Federalist Society" has always been to "repeal" the "New Deal," the heart of which is Social Security. So the "Society" and Republicans massively subsidize the oil industry, and subsidize the farmers, while at the same time railing against "Socialism".

Worse: they knew and know that destroying USAID (which results in bailouts to farmers) will result in death worldwide and domestically. That is intended. Musk, the unelected bureaucrat, has spoken of "useless eaters," and tweeted that the leader of WW II Germany didn't kill millions; they were killed, he asserted, by unelected bureaucrats.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
This isn't the way to do it, tho. I doubt it will be fine in a year or so. Manufacturing won't suddenly reappear in the US in this environment. Just a clueless maga fantasy at this point.
And another administration will reverse everything. What a great mind f for the manufacturing industry. Why bother bringing things back when the initiative, construction will not happen before everything is reversed.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
-

The easiest way to lower wages is by lowering other expenses but obviously the capitalists wouldn't want that.

So manufacturing returning to the us is entirely possible, it just goes against capitalist logic.
Wages aren't capital expenses and lowering other expenses won't lower wages.

What is YOUR alternative, government-owned manufacturing? Publicly-owned manufacturing?

The US caused this problem by people raising idiots who want shiny trinkets at the lowest cost and being insatiable. Then, environmentalists complain that the landfills are taking over, all because the packaging and useless crap has been thrown into the trash. "I want, I want, I want"- obviously, without some level of demand, we wouldn't see most of the advances and in some cases, products have been designed without an existing market, but it was a huge mistake to rely on one country as the main manufacturer for imported goods.

Manufacturing can return, but a lot of processes will be robotic, by necessity. The US became a service economy close to 50 years ago and it will be hard to return to what it was because people don't want to work, they aren't learning what is necessary and if they want to 'balance their personal and work lives', they probably won't have the disposable income they'll need to provide for everything they want.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
Wages aren't capital expenses and lowering other expenses won't lower wages.

What is YOUR alternative, government-owned manufacturing? Publicly-owned manufacturing?

The US caused this problem by people raising idiots who want shiny trinkets at the lowest cost and being insatiable. Then, environmentalists complain that the landfills are taking over, all because the packaging and useless crap has been thrown into the trash. "I want, I want, I want"- obviously, without some level of demand, we wouldn't see most of the advances and in some cases, products have been designed without an existing market, but it was a huge mistake to rely on one country as the main manufacturer for imported goods.

Manufacturing can return, but a lot of processes will be robotic, by necessity. The US became a service economy close to 50 years ago and it will be hard to return to what it was because people don't want to work, they aren't learning what is necessary and if they want to 'balance their personal and work lives', they probably won't have the disposable income they'll need to provide for everything they want.
I would suggest that the problem didn't start with "people raising idiots who want shiny trinkets at the lowest cost and being insatiable". It started with western manufacturers exporting these jobs to low wage/cost countries in an effort to boost returns.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
and what drove them to do that ? ;)
A variety of events/circumstances. Ranging from anti-unionism, environmental/manufacturing issues, politics, short term thinking, technology, infrastructure....and good ol' consumers not giving a crap.
 
T

trochetier

Full Audioholic
A variety of events/circumstances. Ranging from anti-unionism, environmental/manufacturing issues, politics, short term thinking, technology, infrastructure....and good ol' consumers not giving a crap.
Don't forget Wall Street's insatiable demand for quarterly profits.

On the other hand the cheap consumer goods lifted the living standards of lower income citizens (aka the Walmart crowd) while their wages did not keep up with the cost of living courtesy again of Wall Street's profit demands.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Don't forget Wall Street's insatiable demand for quarterly profits.

On the other hand the cheap consumer goods lifted the living standards of lower income citizens (aka the Walmart crowd) while their wages did not keep up with the cost of living courtesy again of Wall Street's profit demands.
What I was referring to with short-term thinking.
 

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