So I gotta ask, 104% tariffs on China?

[highfigh]

my point being the tariff does not apply to the msrp and depending on the factor to which it does apply, in many cases it's much less, especially on goods made in China.

Is this assuming that the current/pre-current BS tariffs on Chinese goods has been negligible? The tariffs may not apply directly to MSRP, but it definitely affects it- manufactucturers, distributors and dealers can't absorb the new high tariffs wiithout raising prices.

From the Yahoo article,

"America exported goods worth $143.5bn (£109.5bn) to China in 2024, compared with $439bn of imports, according to US census bureau data. Even if the % is equal between us, the US still pays close to 2.5 times as much but this is just a closeup of the real problem- we buy too much from China and they are not our ally.

MY friend at KEF has spent the last 2 weeks dealing with the tariff discussions and they're trying to figure out what will happen- my guess for the short term is that many smaller speakers and the Custom Install speakers will be unavailable until the crap storm ends. Part of the problem is that there's a KEF based in England and the US has its own branch but I don't know the fine details of how the US is slammed vs England.

China shuts down trade with US in riposte to Trump

China has raised tariffs against the US to 125pc, effectively shutting out imports from the world’s biggest economy in a major escalation of the trade war.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Teetertotter?]

Yeah I wanted a TCL 85 inch QM7K this year but who knows what the price will be. TCL does have a plant in Mexico so I assume that is where US TV's come from and I think Mexico and Canada have be spared the morons tariffs for now or at least they aren't the 104%.
Dude 104%, say it? I mean that SH!T is bonkers!

You will love the QM7K. We have the QM7 [2024 Model] and is really nice and have had since September 2024. TCL is supposed to have an update for the 2024 model to match the QM7K firmware. TCL is really great, I got our 55QM751G on sale from BB at $499 Delivered. Yes, they are assy in Mexico.

 

[lovinthehd]

my point being the tariff does not apply to the msrp and depending on the factor to which it does apply, in many cases it's much less, especially on goods made in China.

Wholesale price isn't what duties are based on either. Usually FOB value port of export or ex-factory price in some cases.

 

[Hetfield]

This video will give you glimpse of what companies are facing.

 

[highfigh]

Expert analyst claims the effect of the Trump - China blockade....
It would cost Apple 30 billion $ and 3 years to move 10% of the supply chain to the US.
The result of this is that a $1000 iPhone would cost $3500

Apple seems to believe they're the only game in town- $1K is too much, but I don't expect them to NOT bring a $3500 phone to market.

 

[Mikado463]

Wholesale price isn't what duties are based on either. Usually FOB value port of export or ex-factory price in some cases.

Agreed, use of the word 'wholesale' in my original reply was not a good one

 

[haraldo]

Apple seems to believe they're the only game in town- $1K is too much, but I don't expect them to NOT bring a $3500 phone to market.

yep, absolutely.... No-one´s gonna buy it .... but looking towards that expert analyst, I believe the point is that this is extremely complex and I reckon bringing home a big portion or the full supply chain for a range of companies to USA will make retail prices explode....

I wonder if such a toll barrier if going very long term.... could essentially partly or significantly kill of Apple, Tesla, Qualcomm, Intel, Amazon hardware division, HP, Dell ...
Alle of them having high to extremely high reliance to suppliers within China

 

[highfigh]

yep, absolutely.... No-one´s gonna buy it .... but looking towards that expert analyst, I believe the point is that this is extremely complex and I reckon bringing home a big portion or the full supply chain for a range of companies to USA will make retail prices explode....

I wonder if such a toll barrier if going very long term.... could essentially partly or significantly kill of Apple, Tesla, Qualcomm, Intel, Amazon hardware division, HP, Dell ...
Alle of them having high to extremely high reliance to suppliers within China

People who want steady jobs AND have a good work ethic can save money but the pay can't be an insult. One area where I have a problem is fast food workers demanding more than the jobs are worth and this is debatable on many levels, for and against. One McDonald's that's about 15 miles from my house has a sign on the front window showing "Apply Now- Starting pay $16/Hour" and that's very close to the pay for jobs requiring far more skills.

Newer efficiencies can make production cost less, but even with robotics, someone is needed to design, install & maintain them.

 

[haraldo]

People who want steady jobs AND have a good work ethic can save money but the pay can't be an insult. One area where I have a problem is fast food workers demanding more than the jobs are worth and this is debatable on many levels, for and against. One McDonald's that's about 15 miles from my house has a sign on the front window showing "Apply Now- Starting pay $16/Hour" and that's very close to the pay for jobs requiring far more skills.

Newer efficiencies can make production cost less, but even with robotics, someone is needed to design, install & maintain them.

$16 / hour is not gonna give anyone a good life ... anywhere ...
But I reckon the job is not worth more than this

Actually I believe the McDonalds salaries at average in Norway is way lower than this, and this is expensive country to live in

 

[3db]

China is a bad actor and there is no disagreement there from across the political spectrum. We should reduce ourself from this dependency on China from a number of areas.

I agree but American corporate greed among the upper echeon of management and shareholder greed will prevent this from happening. Wallstreet won't let this happen. That's a sad part of the American dream.

 

[haraldo]

Chinese CATL is by far the largest battery producer in the world, I reckon every major car company has them as a supplier..... if we want these batteries to be produced in the western world, maybe EV car prices will double?, triple?

Are consumers willing to pay the price for this? I think very much NO

Swedish tried to start battery production, but it crashed with a major blow, because they were not even close to being competitive .....

There is NO WAY we will not be relying on China for critical parts and components!

source: visualcapitalist.com

 

[highfigh]

$16 / hour is not gonna give anyone a good life ... anywhere ...
But I reckon the job is not worth more than this

Actually I believe the McDonalds salaries at average in Norway is way lower than this, and this is expensive country to live in

Minimum wage isn't supposed to be 'pay for your entire working life", it's supposed to be a start, originally for getting somoene up to speed so they can advance in a company (new hires don't neccesarily have ANY work exerience). But if you compare fast food work requirements with someone who's a cable TV installer as an example, the latter doesn't make much more than $20/hour to start at Spectrum and they, in theory, need to have some technical knowledge, or at least be able to learn it. In addition, some apects of cable/phone/internet installation require knowledge of the National Electrical Code because grounding is important and if they don't understand or complete the work properly, really bad things can happen. I knew someone who worked for McDonald's and after going to one of their places AND leaving because nobody wanted to take an order at the drive through when the place was empty, that was supposed to his next stop, to improve the operation. They couldn't attract people from the area, so they advertised higher wages and all that did was create a flood of workers with terrible job skills. Hard to make that job look attractive to high school kids whose 16th birthday gift might be a Mercedes, Lexus or other expensive item/trip, etc.

OTOH, paying installers more doesn't yield good results, either. This photo shows 'work' done by Spectrum and yes, it's more than one code violation. Every other installer andmanager from Spectrum said something similar to "Holy crap! Who did that?".

 

[highfigh]

Chinese CATL is by far the largest battery producer in the world, I reckon every major car company has them as a supplier..... if we want these batteries to be produced in the western world, maybe EV car prices will double?, triple?

Are consumers willing to pay the price for this? I think very much NO

Swedish tried to start battery production, but it crashed with a major blow, because they were not even close to being competitive .....

There is NO WAY we will not be relying on China for critical parts and components!

source: visualcapitalist.com

WRT Chinese involvement, they're likely to be in partnership as they are in Clarios, which is the largest automotive battery manufacturer in the World- formerly Johnson Controls Battery Division. If you're familiar with the Varta brand, it's part of Clarios, purchased years ago by Johnson Controls. The HQ for JC and Clarios are within walking dstance of my house and the new Clarios building is across the street from JC.

Battery components can be made almost anywhere- I don't think I would give up on some being made in your country.

Glendale-based Clarios plans public stock sale. The world's largest maker of auto batteries, the company cranks out 150 million a year.

The business, which employs about 16,000 people worldwide, was sold by Johnson Controls in 2019.

www.jsonline.com

 

[highfigh]

I agree but American corporate greed among the upper echeon of management and shareholder greed will prevent this from happening. Wallstreet won't let this happen. That's a sad part of the American dream.

Both of you are correct, but we can't ignore who made this happen (China receiving MFN status)- US Congress and Clinton. I can't believe Pelosi and Schumer were against it......

 

[haraldo]

WRT Chinese involvement, they're likely to be in partnership as they are in Clarios, which is the largest automotive battery manufacturer in the World- formerly Johnson Controls Battery Division. If you're familiar with the Varta brand, it's part of Clarios, purchased years ago by Johnson Controls. The HQ for JC and Clarios are within walking dstance of my house and the new Clarios building is across the street from JC.

Battery components can be made almost anywhere- I don't think I would give up on some being made in your country.

Glendale-based Clarios plans public stock sale. The world's largest maker of auto batteries, the company cranks out 150 million a year.

The business, which employs about 16,000 people worldwide, was sold by Johnson Controls in 2019.

www.jsonline.com

I am not giving up on this .... there are initiatives over here too .... for battery manufacture
But it´s a tough call I reckon

Maybe in Ukraine?

 

[lovinthehd]

Both of you are correct, but we can't ignore who made this happen (China receiving MFN status)- US Congress and Clinton. I can't believe Pelosi and Schumer were against it......

It was far more involved than that and the republicans have been a part of the experience....after all it was Nixon who opened the door.

 

[highfigh]

It was far more involved than that and the republicans have been a part of the experience....after all it was Nixon who opened the door.

Yes, it was NIxon, but I doubt it was for MFN since they werent capable of manufacturing much of interest at that time. Maybe he saw potential, but I don't remember seeing anything about his interest in trade, which was very different at that time WRT offshore manufacturing. Tariffs on Japanese electronics (mostly TVs) hadn't reached the level that caused them to open plants in Mexico at that time and the US still had several consumer electronics manufacturers onshore owned by US-based companies.

 

[highfigh]

I am not giving up on this .... there are initiatives over here too .... for battery manufacture
But it´s a tough call I reckon

Maybe in Ukraine?

Might be a bit early to make batteries in Ukraine, especially with Lithium- if Russia were to bomb the crap out of a plant that stores it, the environmental impact won't be small unless they do a great job of containment of the material and water used for extinguishing fires.

 

[Mikado463]

It was far more involved than that and the republicans have been a part of the experience....

Translation ..............Pubs & Dems, both F-ups in their own right

 

[haraldo]

Might be a bit early to make batteries in Ukraine, especially with Lithium- if Russia were to bomb the crap out of a plant that stores it, the environmental impact won't be small unless they do a great job of containment of the material and water used for extinguishing fires.

not yet .... but when there is finally peace ... hopefully soon