So I gotta ask, 104% tariffs on China?

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It will be worse. Goods have to have the tariffs collected before they can leave the US port of entry. There are not nearly enough agents or customs brokers to inspect the manifests and collect the tax.
The importer will have to pay the storage.

What experts are saying is that it actually cuts off trade from China. Apparently it has already stopped. So there will be zero goods imported from China, at least legally, for the foreseeable future.

This is also would totally gum up shipping and the ports if done at scale.

So ships would be off anchor for days, waiting for goods to clear and make space.

Effectively these tariffs amount to an embargo. But like all criminals, Trump is very, very stupid, and can't think a situation or policy through from start to finish.

So firms like Perlisten will have two choices.

1). Close up shop.

2). Change designs quickly. Cabinets and crossovers could easily be made here and quickly. There is not much of a high quality driver industry in the US, but there is across Europe, in Scandinavia, the UK, France, Germany and Italy. Those would only face a 10% tariff at present.

Although Perlisten speakers seem to have excellent SQ, and be superbly crafted, they are in essence brute force designs at the usual high cost.

I actually think that with more intelligent design they could do as well or better at less cost. If they want to survive they need a time out and reboot.
No, duties aren't generally paid before they clear the port, at least not in the US last I checked (my former life being a US Customs Broker). You are on the hook via a posted bond and pay on the 10th working day from release, but even better terms are offered via automated payment thru ACH.

I saw an interview with a couple of small businesses importing from China, one said they have a container ready to go but held it back as they simply couldn't afford the duties now and production would take months and months with huge expense to startup in the US. Will likely put them out of business altogether.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
No, duties aren't generally paid before they clear the port, at least not in the US last I checked (my former life being a US Customs Broker). You are on the hook via a posted bond and pay on the 10th working day from release, but even better terms are offered via automated payment thru ACH.

I saw an interview with a couple of small businesses importing from China, one said they have a container ready to go but held it back as they simply couldn't afford the duties now and production would take months and months with huge expense to startup in the US. Will likely put them out of business altogether.
Thanks for the correction. I was just quoting a news report that said that duties had to be paid before release from the port of entry.

However, unless you are a very big outfit, I don't see you having the cash before you sell the goods. This is going to more than double the cost of goods sold. Then you have to make a profit. To get a worthwhile return on investment, the cost of a Perlisten speaker, for instance, would have to about triple. So only Trump's buddies who indulged in insider trading yesterday would be able to afford them!

So idiot Trump will not raise the cash he thinks he will from these tariffs.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
All of the reference range speakers are totally manufactured at Tovil. I think they could quite easily gear up to produce for the US market. That is a large site and is just three or four miles from where one of my brothers lives. It is on the banks of the River Medway, and has close access to ports especially on the isle of Sheppey, Whitstable, port of London and East Anglia come to that.
Not entirely true. The Reference, Blade, and Muon are the only ones fully assembled there, with drivers made in China.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
This is one of the better quotes I've seen about the Trump tariffs.

>>>Producing something this stupid is not the work of a day; it is the achievement of a lifetime — relying on decades of incuriosity, decades of not cracking a book, decades of being impervious to evidence.<<<

 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
We could literally have elected a chimp and gotten similar results.
My theory is that there are people with negative intelligence. They make choices that are clearly worse than what would be expected from a purely random process such as a chimp banging on a typewriter with a hammer.

I understand your point, but to my mind a box of rocks or a chimp with a hammer would be far superior.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
What needs looking at closely is if Trump and or some family members indulged in insider trading by manipulating the US treasury bond market. Good chance Trump, and or family members, are guilty of just this. It seems that some wealthy people did benefit from the fall and rise of the US treasury bond market over this fiasco.
Unfortunately, it may not happen. :eek:
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Trump, his family and coconspirators need to be arrested pronto for insider trading. There is info circulating that Elon Musk made 20 billion yesterday on his deals.
Both parties in Congress now need to act fast and put a stop to this.
If you elect a criminal to high office of course you should expect criminality in said high office. This is not rocket science!
You only wish. ;)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
... But like all criminals, Trump is very, very stupid, and can't think a situation or policy through from start to finish.

...
As are the people whom he listens to, or they scared sh.. to contradict him. :mad:
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for the correction. I was just quoting a news report that said that duties had to be paid before release from the port of entry.

However, unless you are a very big outfit, I don't see you having the cash before you sell the goods. This is going to more than double the cost of goods sold. Then you have to make a profit. To get a worthwhile return on investment, the cost of a Perlisten speaker, for instance, would have to about triple. So only Trump's buddies who indulged in insider trading yesterday would be able to afford them!

So idiot Trump will not raise the cash he thinks he will from these tariffs.
Most outside the industry don't know the details of how it works. Including drumphy. I don't think I ever handled shipments for an importer who needed to sell the goods to pay for their importation particularly....and I'd put that importer on a cash basis rather than considering them for credit terms :)

In that interview where they held up their shipment due duty liabilities, they specifically mentioned that in normal tariff times they would be on the hook for about $20k in duties, but figured closer to 150k with the additional duties and that much cash they didn't have on hand as they were a small business and already quite leveraged (including the owner's home). That was a Minnesota outfit, too.

None of these tariffs were well thought out in any way, from how he calculated an imbalance of trade to be the fault of the originating country rather than consumption here in the US, to the fantastical duty rates he came up with let alone the time frame. Doubtful he even considered his own trade terms negotiated during his first term in office when he blames what he "inherited" in this term. Maybe he even believed his own bullshit that somehow the originating country was on the hook for the payments. I do wonder if he thought somehow the volume of trade wouldn't be affected. Such a malicious maroon he is....
 
D

dlaloum

Senior Audioholic
My theory is that there are people with negative intelligence. They make choices that are clearly worse than what would be expected from a purely random process such as a chimp banging on a typewriter with a hammer.

I understand your point, but to my mind a box of rocks or a chimp with a hammer would be far superior.
Or alternatively, their objective is different to what you assume it to be....

In which case their actions could make perfect sense!

eg:
Short term impact - The Trumpistas make buckets of cash on the markets by insider trading.
Long term impact - set up a patronage environment, where countries, companies and individuals kow tow before the throne of the absolute monarch, who can dispense exclusions to tariffs or increase tariffs as his whim takes him.... massively increas the power/influence of the dictator.

The short term objective seems to have been achieved (alongside the gutting of institutions designed to halt insider trading)
The Long term objective - well, there is a long list of countries clamoring to talk to Trump & Co.... - whether they end up isolating the USA, or kowtowing to Trump is yet to be seen.

Of course there are various fig leaves of rationalisation used to obfuscate these objectives.... but as has been noted repeatedly by many pundits..... they don't make sense.

The other thing to consider, is that the razor focus on their own objectives within the Trumpistas... means that they have a tendency to completely ignore collateral damage.... even if it means the destruction of the USA economy. There are no big picture thinkers on that team, no team members who consider the broader long term ramifications and how all the variables hang together - that type of thinking is completely alien....

To paraphrase the Greenlanders, it looks like MAGA will indeed Make America Go Away. :(
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I remember when Raymond Cooke bought the site of the Kent Engineering Factory at Tovil in 1961. It was a large bombed out steel works. Kent had a lot of active coal mines until the 1980s. So they have plenty of space. They are only 15 miles from the Medway Towns, which is a huge urban conurbation along the Medway. It has a long history of skilled manufacture. They built nuclear subs and large naval surface surface vessels until Chatham dockyard closed. There was also ship building at Rochester and Strood. They have Eliot automation and used to build heavy plant at the Winget and Blawknox plants. They were also the site of CAV diesel injector pumps which were on many American diesel engines. They also built Sea planes at Rochester.
So there is a long history of skilled labor in the area and there still is significant manufacturing going on. I don't think there will be any problem increasing the skilled labor force at Tovil, not at all. I am certain they can build to as high and probably a higher standard at Tovil than China.
As KenM posted, KEF Reference series and above are made outside of China, others are made in Malasia, some cabinets are made in Poland, but if KEF and others want to change, it will require China selling the companies because we all know THEY'LL want something if outsiders use 'their' designs, whether they actually designed something, or not.

WRT long history of skilled labor- the US had a long history of that but like many things, it goes away if not used for a long time.

WRT "I am certain they can build to as high and probably a higher standard at Tovil than China", why? High standards only require trained workers who can maintain whatever standards have been set, managing variances and using practices in manufacturing that assure a minimum of problems. Currently, China is making items with high enough precision that the designers aren't moving manufacturing to some other place- they have come a long time since the days when just about anything made of cast iron was recycled because it wasn't left to relieve stress, leading to deformation. The power tool/machinery market depends on cast iron staying put and they're making it happen. Taiwan is another country used for these, often with better QC, but if you know people using new power tools, you know that many are hard core supporters of the brands they choose, to the point of denigrating others.

As I have posted many times, I don't like China being raised to the level of being the main source of goods. Allowing them MFN was a mistake and if you/others aren't aware, some Democrats were against that, including Pelosi and Schumer- they spoke on this in 1996.

The markets for products caused this by wanting low prices, high labor costs caused companies and corporations to move manufacturing offshore and China, by benefitting from the incredible increase in revenue and their abuse of intellectual property rights, has bought far too many brands and corporations, as well as real estate in the US and, I assume, other countries.

This image is just for tools and doesn't include medical equipment, electronics, auto parts & assemblies, etc.

1744381031938.png
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
What’s the point of tariffs on China ? Those outsourced jobs aren’t coming back as USA is no longer a manufacturing powerhouse like In the 1940s. All it’s doing is making everything more expensive when average jobs already don’t pay enough to survive.
US was a manufacturing powerhouse into the 1970s.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
As I have posted many times, I don't like China being raised to the level of being the main source of goods. Allowing them MFN was a mistake and if you/others aren't aware, some Democrats were against that, including Pelosi and Schumer- they spoke on this in 1996.
China is a bad actor and there is no disagreement there from across the political spectrum. We should reduce ourself from this dependency on China from a number of areas.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Depending on the spread between the wholesale price and the msrp, the bloodshed may not be as bad as one thinks. I know, wishful thinking ............ :oops:
How so? Manufacturers only see MSRP if they sell to consumers but they SET MSRP/MAP/UAP- the ones who will really suffer if the cost increases and MSRP is held will be the resellers and if you want to see resellers jump ship, increase cost without allowing them to make a profit or force dealers to compete directly with manufacturers online, which IIRC Panasonic started by offering products on their website, followed by brands like Denon, priced below dealer cost. Oh, yeah- that makes dealers REALLY loyal.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
How so? Manufacturers only see MSRP if they sell to consumers but they SET MSRP/MAP/UAP- the ones who will really suffer if the cost increases and MSRP is held will be the resellers and if you want to see resellers jump ship, increase cost without allowing them to make a profit or force dealers to compete directly with manufacturers online, which IIRC Panasonic started by offering products on their website, followed by brands like Denon, priced below dealer cost. Oh, yeah- that makes dealers REALLY loyal.
Take a deep breath.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
How so? Manufacturers only see MSRP if they sell to consumers but they SET MSRP/MAP/UAP- the ones who will really suffer if the cost increases and MSRP is held will be the resellers and if you want to see resellers jump ship, increase cost without allowing them to make a profit or force dealers to compete directly with manufacturers online, which IIRC Panasonic started by offering products on their website, followed by brands like Denon, priced below dealer cost. Oh, yeah- that makes dealers REALLY loyal.
my point being the tariff does not apply to the msrp and depending on the factor to which it does apply, in many cases it's much less, especially on goods made in China.
 
Last edited:
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
Expert analyst claims the effect of the Trump - China blockade....
It would cost Apple 30 billion $ and 3 years to move 10% of the supply chain to the US.
The result of this is that a $1000 iPhone would cost $3500

 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top