Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[GO-NAD!]

I would l ike the news outlets to stop their speculation- I saw a video title about Russia invading Germany. I don't know how they could do that without going through or over Poland but those two never gave a rat's ass about Poland in the past, so.....

I think they'd have an awfully tough time getting through Poland nowadays.

 

[Trell]

I think they'd have an awfully tough time getting through Poland nowadays.

The dude has no clue about the Polish military capabilities.

That said, with Trump in power dominating Congress I do think that Poland should get their own nukes. Sadly, that adds to the nuclear proliferation and makes our world less secure.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The dude has no clue about the Polish military capabilities.

That said, with Trump in power dominating Congress I do think that Poland should get their own nukes. Sadly, that adds to the nuclear proliferation and makes our world less secure.

Being so tied up with Ukraine, they don't have sufficient forces to attack any country of consequence. Never mind triggering article 5...

 

[highfigh]

I think they'd have an awfully tough time getting through Poland nowadays.

That's the reason I thought it was a very strange idea. While I don't want to see it happen, Russia heading toward the border with Poland at high speed and not showing signs of slowing before they reach it could be their way of playing 'Chicken', they need to consider the consequences if they can't stop in time.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That's the reason I thought it was a very strange idea. While I don't want to see it happen, Russia heading toward the border with Poland at high speed and not showing signs of slowing before they reach it could be their way of playing 'Chicken', they need to consider the consequences if they can't stop in time.

When are they going after Finland, a new NATO member. After all, they didn't want Ukraine to be in NATO so they attacked it.

 

[Trell]

When are they going after Finland, a new NATO member. After all, they didn't want Ukraine to be in NATO so they attacked it.

For Ukraine it never was about it joining NATO as such but for Russia to eradicate it as a country.

An article from July 2023:

>>>THE NATO SUMMIT AND THE QUESTION of Ukraine’s membership—which will no doubt dominate the next year’s summit in Washington, D.C.—has once again revived the perennial claims that Russia’s attack on Ukraine was “provoked” by reckless NATO expansion and that stopping Ukraine from joining NATO is a legitimate Russian security concern. But few people have noticed that earlier this month, these claims were inadvertently blown out of the water by none other than former Russian faux-president Dmitry Medvedev. Currently the deputy chair of the Russian Federation Security Council, Medvedev has positioned himself as something of official spokesman for the “insane war clown” point of view. (When he’s not claiming that Russia is doing battle against Satan himself, he’s threatening a nuclear apocalypse.)

This time, Medvedev spewed forth a lengthy article for the official gazette of the Russian government titled “The Era of Confrontation.” In it, amid the usual insult-laden tirades about “senile Russophobes in the American Senate” and “fat burghers” in Europe, he attempted to rebut the claim that Russia’s attempts at NATO containment had backfired by inducing Finland and Sweden to join:

This is pure lies. We never tried to contain NATO. We don’t have the strength or the ability to do that. . . . We have always asked for only one thing: to take into account our concerns and not to invite former parts of our country to join NATO. Especially those with which we have territorial disputes. Therefore, our goal is simple: to eliminate the threat of Ukraine's membership in NATO. [Emphasis in original.]​

So much, then, for cries about the peril of NATO bases and missiles creeping up to Russia’s borders. Medvedev’s bizarre screed—which ignores the fact that Ukraine was never part of the Russian Federation and that Russia recognized Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders in 1991, 1994, and 1997 without any “territorial dispute”—makes it clear that the Kremlin’s rhetoric about the “threat” of Ukraine’s NATO membership is not about an actual military threat. It’s about the injury to what Putin and his cronies see as Russia’s imperial self-esteem, a blow to Russia’s supposed right to see former Soviet republics as “former parts of our country,” and an obstacle to the Kremlin project of rebuilding the Russian empire. One may speculate about the extent to which the Putin elites’ anxieties about ex-Soviet republics joining the community of liberal democracies have to do with the example this sets for discontented people in Russia itself. Regardless, Medvedev’s own words make it clear that there are no valid national security concerns involved. The “threat” the Kremlin is hyping is a cultural and political challenge.

And if NATO’s mission is to defend the liberal order, then such a challenge to Putin’s autocratic Russia should be a part of that mission.<<<

Ukraine After the NATO Summit: The Glass Half-Full?

Plus: New Medvedev screed blows apart Kremlin talking points about the “threat” of Ukraine’s NATO membership.

www.thebulwark.com

 

[mtrycrafts]

For Ukraine it never was about it joining NATO as such but for Russia to eradicate it as a country.

An article from July 2023:

>>>THE NATO SUMMIT AND THE QUESTION of Ukraine’s membership—which will no doubt dominate the next year’s summit in Washington, D.C.—has once again revived the perennial claims that Russia’s attack on Ukraine was “provoked” by reckless NATO expansion and that stopping Ukraine from joining NATO is a legitimate Russian security concern. But few people have noticed that earlier this month, these claims were inadvertently blown out of the water by none other than former Russian faux-president Dmitry Medvedev. Currently the deputy chair of the Russian Federation Security Council, Medvedev has positioned himself as something of official spokesman for the “insane war clown” point of view. (When he’s not claiming that Russia is doing battle against Satan himself, he’s threatening a nuclear apocalypse.)

This time, Medvedev spewed forth a lengthy article for the official gazette of the Russian government titled “The Era of Confrontation.” In it, amid the usual insult-laden tirades about “senile Russophobes in the American Senate” and “fat burghers” in Europe, he attempted to rebut the claim that Russia’s attempts at NATO containment had backfired by inducing Finland and Sweden to join:

This is pure lies. We never tried to contain NATO. We don’t have the strength or the ability to do that. . . . We have always asked for only one thing: to take into account our concerns and not to invite former parts of our country to join NATO. Especially those with which we have territorial disputes. Therefore, our goal is simple: to eliminate the threat of Ukraine's membership in NATO. [Emphasis in original.]​

So much, then, for cries about the peril of NATO bases and missiles creeping up to Russia’s borders. Medvedev’s bizarre screed—which ignores the fact that Ukraine was never part of the Russian Federation and that Russia recognized Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders in 1991, 1994, and 1997 without any “territorial dispute”—makes it clear that the Kremlin’s rhetoric about the “threat” of Ukraine’s NATO membership is not about an actual military threat. It’s about the injury to what Putin and his cronies see as Russia’s imperial self-esteem, a blow to Russia’s supposed right to see former Soviet republics as “former parts of our country,” and an obstacle to the Kremlin project of rebuilding the Russian empire. One may speculate about the extent to which the Putin elites’ anxieties about ex-Soviet republics joining the community of liberal democracies have to do with the example this sets for discontented people in Russia itself. Regardless, Medvedev’s own words make it clear that there are no valid national security concerns involved. The “threat” the Kremlin is hyping is a cultural and political challenge.

And if NATO’s mission is to defend the liberal order, then such a challenge to Putin’s autocratic Russia should be a part of that mission.<<<

Ukraine After the NATO Summit: The Glass Half-Full?

Plus: New Medvedev screed blows apart Kremlin talking points about the “threat” of Ukraine’s NATO membership.

www.thebulwark.com

I agree and understand well it wasn't about NATO on border. Others just using it as an excuse when they have run out of excuses for the Russian invasion.