Denon X3800 shuts down

[PENG]

On further consideration (I get smarter slowly, but do learn), I no longer expect the onkyo to actually solve the problem. Delivery on the onkyo is expected Friday (or perhaps sooner). so I'm going to wait for it to actually show up.

In the mean time its time to do taxes... Fun (not really).

Enjoy!

If the X3800H was shutting down right on the edge, such as, if you listen at lower volume by even just 1 to 2 clicks, then the RZ70 will solve the problem.

The suggested external amp route is only to give you more margin, that's all.

The RZ70 will give you about 1.5 to 2 dB at the most more spl at rated output vs the smaller/lighter Denon.

Is your R700 same as the Reserve R700:

If it is, it is practically closer to 4 ohm nominal than 8 ohm nominal, say 5.5 ohms lol..

and note the reviewer's comments:
Polk Reserve R700 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Review:

I measured the sensitivity at 88.9dB at 1 meter for 2.83v. That is very close to what Polk reports. That is pretty typical for loudspeakers in this class. Users will not need a monster amp for these speakers to get loud. However, they should be able to take a good deal of power if a beefy amp is available.

So, it really depends how hard you would push them, if not too hard (such as lower volume, sitting not too far etc.) then the RZ70 will be great for them without help from external amps, otherwise the protective circuitry might activate, worse case would be it might activate to limit voltage/current, without shutting down, so you might lose performance without knowing.. Some users of the lower models are not happy with that kind of protection, though they tended to be from owners of the lower models, the RZ70 is probably too new to have a lot of user feedback yet. You seem to have use case for probably more "power" than a lot of people, that's why I mentioned some of the things to watch for using the trial period.

 

[Happy Joe]

Yes, I am using Polk reserve 700s... they are about the closest that I could find, locally, in a "new /current production" speakers at a semi reasonable price that sounds close to the old NHT 2.5i speakers; my favorites for the last 20 years or so...

I, typically, listen to music at levels that you can talk over in a normal voice (one of the first things that I look for in quality speakers).

Movies tend to get a bit louder (especially the special effects. Atmos seems to be especially good at shutting down the avr).

100 Watts RMS per channel, 0.01 or better THD is my historically minimum amplifier power level specification.... until these polks.

Enjoy!

 

[PENG]

100 Watts RMS per channel, 0.01 or better THD is my historically minimum amplifier power level specification.... until these polks.

Enjoy!

That's why I never like the term "power", ie "watts". Electromagnetic speakers are really voltage sensitive device, not power so if the R700 produces about 88 dB/2.83V/m, if you sit 4 m, you get only 76 dB assuming no room gain.

That's probably what you listen to a lot of times, but that means peaks could be at 96 dB or higher, fast approaching "reference" level!

Then consider Ohm's law, during impedance dips to 5 ohms, current will increase 1.6 times and that's what the AVR would be sensing, not "watts" whatsoever. At the higher, or highest current demand, the so called "watts" the amplifier has to supply is not that easy to estimate, it could be lower or higher than one thinks, the important thing is, the amplifier has to be able to meet the current demand while distortions remain lower enough to be audible.

 

[Happy Joe]

That's why I never like the term "power", ie "watts". Electromagnetic speakers are really voltage sensitive device, not power so if the R700 produces about 88 dB/2.83V/m, if you sit 4 m, you get only 76 dB assuming no room gain.

That's probably what you listen to a lot of times, but that means peaks could be at 96 dB or higher, fast approaching "reference" level!

Then consider Ohm's law, during impedance dips to 5 ohms, current will increase 1.6 times and that's what the AVR would be sensing, not "watts" whatsoever. At the higher, or highest current demand, the so called "watts" the amplifier has to supply is not that easy to estimate, it could be lower or higher than one thinks, the important thing is, the amplifier has to be able to meet the current demand while distortions remain lower enough to be audible.

For your reasons above i always take the Amp (power) specifications as a maximum that that the amp can supply without disrupting the distortion number too badly.
There is so much variation in the levels on recordings (for many reasons) That I don't even try to relate it to what I hear.
Specifications are only a rough guide, IMO.

When comparing speakers I bring my own copy of a recording; and where possible try to play the recording flat; even this, I realize is risky because of tricks that can be used to make audition rooms sound better than most folks can achieve at home.

... always take all published numbers with a large dose of of salt (especially chinese specifications since they, demonstrably, are not particularly truthful).
I ultimately don't place much trust in advertised numbers; I do try to go by test results from reviewers; where they give their methodology & are not terribly subjective/obviously biased...

Numbers can only take people so far because what individuals like/prefer is obviously subjective and can vary drastically between people.

Enjoy!

 

[lovinthehd]

I do not run a lot of EQ; However the polk R700s seemed to need around 4 DB of boost to achieve parity in volume with the other speakers (I also have reduced the other speakers to levels that were near the polks however the resulting volume was so low that none of the speakers really gave good sound unless the volume was set quite high. (70+% or so.)

I have also tried splitting the difference (decreasing the levels on the other speakers while still giving the polks 2- 3 db of boost; still get shutdowns.

I figure the power supply on the 3800 just cannot handle the polk requirements, when the polks are boosted; resulting in random shutdowns (which do not happen with no boost on the polks).

Before getting more amps I expect to much more research, the emotiva, outlaw and crown options were a result of a quicky first pass look.

On further consideration (I get smarter slowly, but do learn), I no longer expect the onkyo to actually solve the problem. Delivery on the onkyo is expected Friday (or perhaps sooner). so I'm going to wait for it to actually show up.

In the mean time its time to do taxes... Fun (not really).

Enjoy!

Are you driving the speakers full range? Are you using Audyssey? At lower volumes the Dynamic EQ is a nice feature to provide a fuller sound. Most of the time my avrs suffice for power, but as I have spare amps I did hook some up in my biggest room (where I'm more likely to push volume too). Not sure why you need to lower levels of other speakers and boost the Polks, but that sounds a bit odd (altho preference isn't particularly reference otoh). How do you figure a percentage for volume with a dB/logarithmic scale?

The Onkyo's Dirac feature could be interesting, but I think Audyssey with the various app options is pretty flexible (multeq editor app, multeq-x, or even freeware like Audyssey One variants let alone buying a Dirac license).

 

[Happy Joe]

Are you driving the speakers full range? Are you using Audyssey? At lower volumes the Dynamic EQ is a nice feature to provide a fuller sound. Most of the time my avrs suffice for power, but as I have spare amps I did hook some up in my biggest room (where I'm more likely to push volume too). Not sure why you need to lower levels of other speakers and boost the Polks, but that sounds a bit odd (altho preference isn't particularly reference otoh). How do you figure a percentage for volume with a dB/logarithmic scale?

The Onkyo's Dirac feature could be interesting, but I think Audyssey with the various app options is pretty flexible (multeq editor app, multeq-x, or even freeware like Audyssey One variants let alone buying a Dirac license).

Full range? probably not for music i have been listening at around 30%,

Audyssey? no, I haven't found it gives significant improvement over manual adjustment... Decided last night to give the polks a 2 db boost ; worked fine for music (no shutdowns)... would have gone for 3-4 but that seems to increase shut downs.

The lowering of the other speakers while giving the polks a slight boost was an experiment to see if it would reduce the power draw enough to achieve an overall better performance while avoiding shutdowns, it was a result of noting that shudown were reduced after disabling the height speakers. It might have helped slightly for effects movies no real effect for music.

% db with a logarithmic scale...I'm just going by the numbers from the on screen level display... It may not be correct but it seems consistent...

I agree; the Onkyo's Dirac feature could prove interesting.. at least, somewhat educational... Although most of the audyssey features are currently turned off.

The migration to the Onkyo is going to be a bit of an effort. I will need to remove the HTPC from below the Dennon then disconnect the cabling , move in the; somewhat weighty, as I understand it, Onkyo and reconnect everything.

Enjoy!