Budget Subwoofer - Prioritize size or frequency?

[Grymlot]

I'm building a 5.1 system with the idea that I may add 2 or 4 atmos speakers in the future, and I'm building it for a room that's 11.5ft x 16ft, dedicated for watching movies. My budget is around $2500 for speakers and receiver, so I'm trying to keep the subwoofer cost to $200, but if I need to go a bit higher I might. So I'm looking for opinions on how best to spend my money, or if I do stretch the budget to 3 or 400, which attributes of the sub should I spend it on? The 2 attributes pointed out to me so far would be size and frequency range. I saw a video that suggested a 12 inch sub for my room but those are way over $200 usually. I also heard to look for at least 25hz or preferably 20hz. Both of these driver the money up, so should I prioritize frequency over size or vice versa?

 

[isolar8001]

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[TLS Guy]

I'm building a 5.1 system with the idea that I may add 2 or 4 atmos speakers in the future, and I'm building it for a room that's 11.5ft x 16ft, dedicated for watching movies. My budget is around $2500 for speakers and receiver, so I'm trying to keep the subwoofer cost to $200, but if I need to go a bit higher I might. So I'm looking for opinions on how best to spend my money, or if I do stretch the budget to 3 or 400, which attributes of the sub should I spend it on? The 2 attributes pointed out to me so far would be size and frequency range. I saw a video that suggested a 12 inch sub for my room but those are way over $200 usually. I also heard to look for at least 25hz or preferably 20hz. Both of these driver the money up, so should I prioritize frequency over size or vice versa?

I warned you, that your budget was too lean. That 12" RSL is $799.00 and that is good value. There is no point in buying junk. My advice to buy two good right and left front speakers and a sub. Get a decent receiver, and as funds permit add speakers over time, starting with the center channel. You will not do what you want with the budget you have set, but you can do it in stages. What I suggest will give you 90% of the HT experience.

 

[NINaudio]

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rsl-speedwoofer-10e

 

[Grymlot]

I warned you, that your budget was too lean.

Regarding that, how important is it for the sub to match the other five speakers? I noticed this ELAC sub is 63% off right now and has decent frequency and its 12”: https://www.amazon.com/Debut-SUB3030-Powered-Subwoofer-Black/dp/B07DH9C44C/ref=asc_df_B07DH9C44C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693363874255&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15492160622666073004&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019698&hvtargid=pla-571771611835&psc=1&mcid=44293012d9673967aedeeaf74bb6d9ee&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693363874255&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15492160622666073004&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019698&hvtargid=pla-571771611835&psc=1

 

[Trell]

Regarding that, how important is it for the sub to match the other five speakers?

If you mean matching as in from the same brand, that is completely unimportant in your use case with a receiver.

 

[Swerd]

Regarding that, how important is it for the sub to match the other five speakers?

If you mean matching the sound quality (not appearance), it is less important than matching the sound qualities of the front left, right & center speakers.

 

[Swerd]

I saw a video that suggested a 12 inch sub for my room but those are way over $200 usually. I also heard to look for at least 25hz or preferably 20hz. Both of these drive the money up, so should I prioritize frequency over size or vice versa?

Instead of size or low frequency response, pay attention to one of the so-called Thiele-Small Parameters, known as Free-air resonance frequency (Fs).

Understanding Loudspeaker Data

Choose the most appropriate loudspeaker for a particular enclosure by understanding louspeaker performance data using Thiele-Small Parameters.

eminence.com

Unfortunately makers of raw sub woofer drivers usually publish these parameters, but few makers of subwoofers & amps all mounted in a cabinet do that. So finding the Fs may not always be possible.

Fs is the free-air resonant frequency of a speaker. Simply stated, it is the point at which the weight of the moving parts of the speaker becomes balanced with the force of the speaker suspension when in motion. If you've ever seen a piece of string start humming uncontrollably in the wind, you have seen the effect of reaching a resonant frequency. It is important to know this information so that you can prevent your enclosure from 'ringing'. With a loudspeaker, the mass of the moving parts, and the stiffness of the suspension (surround and spider) are the key elements that affect the resonant frequency. As a general rule of thumb, a lower Fs indicates a woofer that would be better for low-frequency reproduction than a woofer with a higher Fs. This is not always the case though, because other parameters affect the ultimate performance as well.

As TLS Guy said above, your price goal is too low. At that price, you will get junk not worth buying at all. It is better to buy speakers in stages, first the front left, right & center speakers, next a subwoofer, then surround speakers, and finally the atmos speakers (if any).

 

[Grymlot]

Thanks to you both, but it's always hard to take people seriously who tell me I'mlooking at junk not worth buying at all, when I'm used to the built-in speakers on my $700 LG TV. Where is the middle ground here between a $10,000 system and my TV?

I would really rather bump my budget up another $500-$1,000 bucks now to at least get all the 5.1 speakers, than to start with 3 and have to explain to the wife each of the next 3 years why I'm spending more. I am also hoping some Black Friday deals help bring some stuff down into my price range as well.

Is this system junk not worth buying: UniFi 2.0 | Best Audiophile Speakers ? I'm liking the look of it... great brand, all 3-way speakers. If I add the 63% off subwoofer I linked above, I'm looking at $2,400 plus the cost of a receiver. Hopefully Black Friday deals save me another few hundred, but who knows. Is this still a level that's not worth buying at?

 

[isolar8001]

Thanks to you both, but it's always hard to take people seriously who tell me I'mlooking at junk not worth buying at all, when I'm used to the built-in speakers on my $700 LG TV. Where is the middle ground here between a $10,000 system and my TV?

I would really rather bump my budget up another $500-$1,000 bucks now to at least get all the 5.1 speakers, than to start with 3 and have to explain to the wife each of the next 3 years why I'm spending more. I am also hoping some Black Friday deals help bring some stuff down into my price range as well.

Is this system junk not worth buying: UniFi 2.0 | Best Audiophile Speakers ? I'm liking the look of it... great brand, all 3-way speakers. If I add the 63% off subwoofer I linked above, I'm looking at $2,400 plus the cost of a receiver. Hopefully Black Friday deals save me another few hundred, but who knows. Is this still a level that's not worth buying at?

Your budget is fine....call RSL like I suggested.
They can set you up with a very nice 5.1 system with an AVR for that price with a high quality sub. Possibly the 12S Speedwoofer that is all the sub most will ever need.

You can always do Atmos later...or ignore it like I do.

 

[Trell]

You can always do Atmos later...or ignore it like I do.

No Atmos for me either just a 5.1 system in the living room. I got two identical subwoofers, though.

 

[Swerd]

Is this system junk not worth buying: UniFi 2.0 | Best Audiophile Speakers ? I'm liking the look of it... great brand, all 3-way speakers. If I add the 63% off subwoofer I linked above, I'm looking at $2,400 plus the cost of a receiver. Hopefully Black Friday deals save me another few hundred, but who knows. Is this still a level that's not worth buying at?

I quickly read two reviews of the Elacs UniFi 2.0 floor standers and the Elac UniFi 2.0 center speaker. The Home Theater Hifi review said they are decent choices especially for the price, while the Audio Science Review heavily criticized them. Personally, I find ASR's reviewer Amirm to be unpredictable, sometimes too picky, other times too full of praise.

Don't worry if you can't understand what those measurement graphs mean. You have to see a lot of them & hear the speakers before you can do that. From reading your posts here at AH, you may not be interested in audiophillia that deeply … nothing wrong with that. Measurement graphs can be good at identifying the bad speakers to be avoided. But they won't predict if you'll like them or not.

Make certain that you can return them if you hate them.

I haven't heard these speakers, so I can't add in my 2¢. They will certainly sound a whole lot better than your TV's speakers. And, they definitely are not junk. At the same time, they aren't perfect. Maybe they would be a good choice for you if you can swing the price.

Maybe @shadyJ can comment on these Elacs.

 

[Grymlot]

Your budget is fine....call RSL like I suggested.
They can set you up with a very nice 5.1 system with an AVR for that price with a high quality sub. Possibly the 12S Speedwoofer that is all the sub most will ever need.

You can always do Atmos later...or ignore it like I do.

The RSL speakers don't look as sharp as some of the other brands, but I'll definitely take a look at those. I like the way their black friday stuff seems structured too.

 

[Grymlot]

From reading your posts here at AH, you may not be interested audiophillia that deeply … nothing wrong with that. Measurement graphs can be good at identifying the bad speakers to be avoided. But they won't predict if you'll like them or not.

Right, now you're getting me. I'm not an audiophile, but I also don't want to make any stupid mistakes, so I'm just trying to peek my head in the door for some tips here to build what you guys might think of as an entry level system. Or in other words, get 90% of the experience while leaving behind that extra 10% that really polishes things off but costs a fortune.

 

[Grymlot]

Your budget is fine....call RSL like I suggested.
They can set you up with a very nice 5.1 system with an AVR for that price with a high quality sub. Possibly the 12S Speedwoofer that is all the sub most will ever need.

You can always do Atmos later...or ignore it like I do.

Ok, so I started looking at the RSL speakers in more detail. It seems they only have 1 line, and it's actually a bit lower than my budget which is nice. However, this feels like a step down since I'd be using all bookshelf speakers and the frequency range only goes down to 80hz I believe. Is that a situation where a subwoofer will fill in the rest just fine, or am I going to regret not having 2 tower speakers that start at 40hz?

Also, the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 towers have many more speakers and larger speakers than the RSLs, so I'm left wondering if that means it's going to stress my receiver more by having to turn it up louder to get enough sound out?

With the RSLs being a bit cheaper and the Black Friday tiered savings, it makes me wonder if I should spring for a 9 channel receiver and add in 4 of their ceiling speakers to go 5.1.4 right off the bat, but again that increases the receiver wattage concern. With the Onkyo RZ50 I can get 5.1.4 for $2,694, or for a little more I could get a Denon 3800H.

 

[isolar8001]

Ok, so I started looking at the RSL speakers in more detail. It seems they only have 1 line, and it's actually a bit lower than my budget which is nice. However, this feels like a step down since I'd be using all bookshelf speakers and the frequency range only goes down to 80hz I believe. Is that a situation where a subwoofer will fill in the rest just fine, or am I going to regret not having 2 tower speakers that start at 40hz?

Also, the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 towers have many more speakers and larger speakers than the RSLs, so I'm left wondering if that means it's going to stress my receiver more by having to turn it up louder to get enough sound out?

With the RSLs being a bit cheaper and the Black Friday tiered savings, it makes me wonder if I should spring for a 9 channel receiver and add in 4 of their ceiling speakers to go 5.1.4 right off the bat, but again that increases the receiver wattage concern. With the Onkyo RZ50 I can get 5.1.4 for $2,694, or for a little more I could get a Denon 3800H.

RSL has only one line now.
They had a better line of similar design full range speakers that are on hiatus currently, that are coming back soon.
I own these.

RSL CG5 & CG25 Bookshelf / Center Speakers Review

RSL Speaker's recent release of the CG5 and CG25 speakers have raised the eyebrows of audio industry. Did RSL produce a premium higher end product at a more moderate price? Read on to find out.

www.audioholics.com

The current CG line is designed to be used with a subwoofer...the 80hz ratings are intentional.
The sub does the hard work. This is where you don't want to skimp.

You wouldn't be paying for more speaker than you need like with those Elac towers....which would ruin your budget anyhow.
Go with all CG3M's....they will perform right up there with larger bookshelves when used with a sub.

All of RSL's products give you the best quality drivers, cabinets and crossovers you can get without going overboard on price.

You will get 50 different system recommendations from 50 different people...
I'm just suggesting this approach as someone who values a company thats not taking you for a ride, and as someone who is very hard to impress when it comes to getting what you pay for with speakers.

PS...if you call RSL they will assemble a package thats not listed on site.
Like 5 CG3M's and a Speedwoofer 12S with an RZ50 with the 20 percent discount for all.
The RZ50 will do Atmos just fine if you want that later.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I agree with RSL. High quality speakers that just plain sound great. Not to mention excellent customer service. The thing is, you are mainly looking for an affordable solution that will get you damn close. It seems like you won’t be pushing this system to the limits, so any concerns of power and headroom are really for nothing. Now, if you wanted concert level playback, we’d be recommending other things. Like a new budget lol.
Andrew jones designed all the new elac stuff, and he’s done great things for the budget consumer. I have no doubt you’d be satisfied as they will sound great. Also, elac subs afaik are only controllable via APP. If there’s ever a time where you can’t get support, your sub could be dead in the water. I also like knobs and switches too.
But imo, for what you’ve expressed that you want to do, RSL gets my money. As far as buying junk. Well it’s not that “affordable” is junk necessarily, but many of us have started where you are. So when a noob asks what to do, we try to steer them away from learning the hard way.
Buy once, cry once is the saying.
As for Atmos. Well, I am a big fan and recommend to those who ask, and can make it work in their room. Not all movies have reference tracks, but that’s been true as long as we’ve had soundtracks so, naturally YMMV. It doesn’t work for everyone for any number of reasons, but it does for me.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks to you both, but it's always hard to take people seriously who tell me I'mlooking at junk not worth buying at all, when I'm used to the built-in speakers on my $700 LG TV. Where is the middle ground here between a $10,000 system and my TV?

I would really rather bump my budget up another $500-$1,000 bucks now to at least get all the 5.1 speakers, than to start with 3 and have to explain to the wife each of the next 3 years why I'm spending more. I am also hoping some Black Friday deals help bring some stuff down into my price range as well.

Is this system junk not worth buying: UniFi 2.0 | Best Audiophile Speakers ? I'm liking the look of it... great brand, all 3-way speakers. If I add the 63% off subwoofer I linked above, I'm looking at $2,400 plus the cost of a receiver. Hopefully Black Friday deals save me another few hundred, but who knows. Is this still a level that's not worth buying at?

I did a system for a friend with those Elac speakers. They are certainly not junk, but I was not quite as impressed with those speakers as I had hoped, although they were certainly acceptable with many, many worse speakers than those. Those prices are per speaker and so not that cheap.

I understand the wife issue, however you could explain to her your reason for the approach. Two better speakers always beat five or more poorer ones. I have to say that the strength of that Elac system was the center channel. I think that is because of the coaxial driver, which is the optimal arrangement for a center speaker in my view. Done properly they give the most natural and coherent speech.

I selected a coaxial driver as the basis of the center speaker in my AV room. It was the right design approach.

 

[Grymlot]

Thanks everyone! I am definitely leaning toward an RSL set of speakers now! I'll likely give them a call this week.

 

[shadyJ]

I would make sure you have a way to EQ the RSL speakers. I am not crazy about their porting system with adds a spike in the response. It can be EQ'd out with any decent auto EQ system, but without equalization, it hurts the sound. The spike in the response is worse in the CG3 series than the CG5 series.