Audyssey MultiEQ XT

[Mike Up]

People have argued with me over the years in how good this room correction is. Years ago I found it terrible in my square 15' x 16' x 8' room. It's crossovers, levels, and distances were all wrong besides it's sounded shrill, harsh, bright and irritating. I tried several times and results were always the same. That was with my 2011 Denon AVR-2312ci's Audyssey MultiEQ XT.

So I now have a Denon AVR-X2800H with the same Audyssey MultiEQ XT so I decided to try it out once again. I did manually set up my system with a calibrated sound level meter with C weight and Slow response. I also measured out with a tape measure, all the speaker's distances.

The great thing about the new Denon models is that they have 2 speaker setting presets. So I left my hand setup on Preset 1 and Audyssey on Preset 2

Well I wanted to get a fair estimation on how accurate this Audyssey is so I only used one listening position, testing it 5 times for overall accuracy. This is where I hand calibrated the system.

I do have 3 sets of headphones that had their frequency response tested by a reputable lab and they are all fairly flat and obviously have no room modes to interfere with their frequency response.

Well I have to say this receiver's Audyssey is better but not by much. The distance calculations were within .5 ft which is pretty good. The subwoofer was off by 4.5' but bass can be tricky.

The sound levels were actually really good mostly within .5 db of my hand measured levels except the Subwoofer which was way off at -12 db. This microphone and Audyssey system can't be used for Subwoofer setup as it's very very inaccurate in the bass frequencies which messed up everything in the speakers as well. This is the same characteristics I seen in my other receiver which is pretty disappointing as people think these are good systems to use. I have 2 hand sound level meters and the oldest one which hasn't been calibrated in years, is about 2 db off from the caibrated sound level meter in the bass frequencies.

Also, you can see where this Audyssey inaccuracy in the bass has just ruined the rest of the room correction. Besides the subwoofer level being off, it set my center speaker to have a 40 Hz crossover which is just insane as it's bass is low before that point. Then it actually set my Elac bookshelf speakers to full range which they have a tested and measured -6db at 46Hz!! Definitely not full range!

I did adjust everything correctly as Audyssey couldn't. I set my bookshelf and center speakers to 80Hz as the subwoofer does all bass duty, and setup my subwoofer level to be -4db below the main speakers. it did drop the main speaker levels to -3db. As I said, taking that into account, all levels were correct except the subwoofer level.

Now here's what threw everything off. It jacked up the equalizer setting really bad! Jacked up the low bass about 8db while bringing 80 - 100 hz to 0db killing any bass punch in music. Then it lowered the lower and center midrange frequencies making voices sound thin and not natural. It then jacked up high midrange and treble to near 8 db again.

Everything sounded horrible, bright, fatiguing, hollow, thin, and harsh.

I did run Audyssey again to have the same results.

This is the same result I had with the older 2011 Denon AVR-2312ci!!

So I thought well, I know my headphones are flat except having a universal boost in the bass across all frequencies. Headphones sounded great nothing like the horrible sound I got from Audyssey.

Heres another thing, I have small surround satellite speakers that have a rated bass rolloff of -3db at 135 Hz. The Audyssey set their crossover at 100Hz, where an optimal crossover is between 120H to 150Hz.

Since the Equalizer jacked everything up to +8db, even with main speakers set at -3db level, the speakers were still louder when doing an A/B comparison with Preset 1 (hand calibrated) and Preset 2 (Audyssey calibrated). Preset 1 sounded great, and natural, not artificial sounding as the Audyssey setup.

This is just a horrible system and I know some love theirs but I honestly can't see how anyone could listen to that horrendous noise that Audyssey makes of the music and soundtracks. Hopefully it's just my room and Audyssey is incompatible with square rooms because I don't want to question everyone's hearing. .

Unfortunately, Audyssey's terrible performance mirrors what I had on my other Denon AVR-2312ci in the same room.

Tell me it's just incompatibility with square rooms. If so, they should state so in their documentation.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sub "distance" isn't necessarily physical distance but rather accommodating inherent delay. Your adjustments of level seem odd. XT is okay, but using the editor app with it would be better (or a unit with XT32).

 

[Hobbit]

Personally, I don't miss trying to calibrate my systems with a handheld. IMO, that approach did a horrible job. Especially with the subwoofer. My experience was Aud (xt32) did a pretty darn good job. Perfect? No, but within minor tweaking to my preferences. The subs were pretty darn good for music. The blend was seemless. I wanted a little more kick for moves, but it was a relatively minor adjust (3-6db, not 12). Audssey was even able to tell me that I wired one of speaker's polarities wrong.

My room is square.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

According to some sound acoustics research done years ago, if the Length/Width is 1.15 to 1.45, then it’s considered good room acoustics.

So 17.3 x 15.0 room is 18/15= 1.15.

21.8 x 15 room is 21.8/15=1.45

 

[Mike Up]

Sub "distance" isn't necessarily physical distance but rather accommodating inherent delay. Your adjustments of level seem odd. XT is okay, but using the editor app with it would be better (or a unit with XT32).

Yeh, I wasn't too worried about subwoofer distance as phasing can determine a different "virtual" distance. I was just very disappointed the most in the horrible equalizer settings for each channel that made the speakers sound so harsh. Of course, you can't adjust the "audyssey" made equalizer adjustments.

The subwoofer level was definitely incorrect as I have calibrated that level with my 2 hand held meters, one being within it's calibration period. The other out of it calibration period, but only off by about 2 db in the bass opposed to the calibrated hand meter. Not bad since it's over 20 years old. The new one was just purchased in the last year.

I calibrate electronic transducers everyday, so when something doesn't calibrate correctly, I deem it defective.

I guess I'll just give it the excuse that it can't work with my room, even though it should be able to. Given that this is the second receiver with MultiEQ XT that showed the same incorrect results, it's definitely the Audyssey.

Glad everything sounds so excellent with just manual distance and level measurements, and sensible crossover settings, that Audyssey isn't needed. I've had so many compliments on how realistic and natural my system sounds, it really doesn't need much else, but always trying for the fun of it.

 

[Mike Up]

Personally, I don't miss trying to calibrate my systems with a handheld. IMO, that approach did a horrible job. Especially with the subwoofer. My experience was Aud (xt32) did a pretty darn good job. Perfect? No, but within minor tweaking to my preferences. The subs were pretty darn good for music. The blend was seemless. I wanted a little more kick for moves, but it was a relatively minor adjust (3-6db, not 12). Audssey was even able to tell me that I wired one of speaker's polarities wrong.

My room is square.

Glad it worked out for you. It did do the basics OK, it just could do anything else correctly.

After trying with 2 receivers now with horrible results, I'm done with room correction toys.

 

[Hobbit]

Glad it worked out for you. It did do the basics OK, it just could do anything else correctly.

After trying with 2 receivers now with horrible results, I'm done with room correction toys.

Kudos to you for getting it to your satisfaction with a handheld. I used that method from the mid 90's to around 2010 when I got an AVR with Audssey. I'm sure, like all technology handhelds have improved along with the signals that are sent to the speaker from the AVR. My meter did horrible with the sub.

Not sure why it's so far off for you? I did have to run it few times varying the mic locations until it was what I deemed good. My first tries the results weren't to my liking. That's to be expected.

 

[Mike Up]

Kudos to you for getting it to your satisfaction with a handheld. I used that method from the mid 90's to around 2010 when I got an AVR with Audssey. I'm sure, like all technology handhelds have improved along with the signals that are sent to the speaker from the AVR. My meter did horrible with the sub.

For the subwoofer, on the handheld, you use C weight on slow response, and do an average for 10 seconds or so. Both my meters can do averaging. If you don't use C weight, you are not measuring the bass frequencies, and you need to use the slow response setting, or readings will be all over the place. Then you use the average setting for at least 10 seconds, as room resonances can cause peaks. I have always had consistent good results.

Not sure why it's so far off for you? I did have to run it few times varying the mic locations until it was what I deemed good. My first tries the results weren't to my liking. That's to be expected.

If you vary positions, that would make it even more inaccurate as standing waves or nulls could be at those positions, but not at your listening position. Actually your first try should be good as long as you are 20" from the rear wall, your mic is level and square pointing up, and is positioned at ear height and between your ears, where you will be sitting. I have a higher end tripod with multiple built in levels so I was able to make sure the mic was facing straight up.

Regardless, glad its all sounding good for you and you like the results.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeh, I wasn't too worried about subwoofer distance as phasing can determine a different "virtual" distance. I was just very disappointed the most in the horrible equalizer settings for each channel that made the speakers sound so harsh. Of course, you can't adjust the "audyssey" made equalizer adjustments.

The subwoofer level was definitely incorrect as I have calibrated that level with my 2 hand held meters, one being within it's calibration period. The other out of it calibration period, but only off by about 2 db in the bass opposed to the calibrated hand meter. Not bad since it's over 20 years old. The new one was just purchased in the last year.

I calibrate electronic transducers everyday, so when something doesn't calibrate correctly, I deem it defective.

I guess I'll just give it the excuse that it can't work with my room, even though it should be able to. Given that this is the second receiver with MultiEQ XT that showed the same incorrect results, it's definitely the Audyssey.

Glad everything sounds so excellent with just manual distance and level measurements, and sensible crossover settings, that Audyssey isn't needed. I've had so many compliments on how realistic and natural my system sounds, it really doesn't need much else, but always trying for the fun of it.

That is one nice thing about the modern Denons is the availability of the Editor App so you can use custom house curves/adjust eq, limit range of eq, eliminate the BBC dip, and many would say have the option of the recent Audyssey One mod from OCA. Keep in mind it's not solely Audyssey at times, like settings of crossovers, that's your avr manufacturer overriding Audyssey recommendations as well as some other things that could be addressed. Curious to have you expand on your setup procedure, tho.

 

[Mike Up]

Curious to have you expand on your setup procedure, tho.

Not much to elaborate on. You just follow the on-screen instructions and setup the mic pointing straight up on a tripod. Set the mic at ear level, at the listening position, and at least 20" from the rear wall as instructed, and follow the instructions.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not much to elaborate on. You just follow the on-screen instructions and setup the mic pointing straight up on a tripod. Set the mic at ear level, at the listening position, and at least 20" from the rear wall as instructed, and follow the instructions.

Audyssey setup can be more involved than that, plus your basic room/speaker setup.

 

[Hobbit]

If you vary positions, that would make it even more inaccurate as standing waves or nulls could be at those positions, but not at your listening position. Actually your first try should be good as long as you are 20" from the rear wall, your mic is level and square pointing up, and is positioned at ear height and between your ears, where you will be sitting. I have a higher end tripod with multiple built in levels so I was able to make sure the mic was facing straight up.

I'm unfamiliar with the older versions of Audssey. The xt32 version is where I jumped in. The mic is moved to multiple locations during the cal procedure. It makes the makes the measurements at each location and then tells you to move the mic to the next location. The approximate locations as to where to put the mic each time is shown on TV screen.

Does the version of Audssey version you're using not use multiple mic positions and you're choosing not to? If it does ask you to move the mic, don't trying to outsmart the procedure and do what it says. It makes more sense to that it can correct for room acoustics better if it has more data from more positions. It's not like the procedure doesn't include the sweet spot. If the old version only does one position, I wouldn't give up on the technology in the future.

 

[Mike Up]

Audyssey setup can be more involved than that, plus your basic room/speaker setup.

How? It's suppose to work with my setup and correct for room acoustic anomalies. It's not suppose to be the other way around where my setup needs to work with it. Then it's useless.

 

[lovinthehd]

How?

Many ways, why don't you know if you're going to denigrate the process?

 

[Mike Up]

I'm unfamiliar with the older versions of Audssey. The xt32 version is where I jumped in. The mic is moved to multiple locations during the cal procedure. It makes the makes the measurements at each location and then tells you to move the mic to the next location. The approximate locations as to where to put the mic each time is shown on TV screen.

Does the version of Audssey version you're using not use multiple mic positions and you're choosing not to? If it does ask you to move the mic, don't trying to outsmart the procedure and do what it says. It makes more sense to that it can correct for room acoustics better if it has more data from more positions. It's not like the procedure doesn't include the sweet spot. If the old version only does one position, I wouldn't give up on the technology in the future.

MultiEQ XT is the current version, you just have a higher end. There's currently 3 versions, MultEQ, MultiEQ XT, :MultiEQ XT32. They are all current. MultiEQ is on the lower lines, MultiEQ XT is on the midline, an MultiEQ XT32 is on the upperline.

 

[Mike Up]

Many ways, why don't you know if you're going to denigrate the process?

I have all the literature and everything was done correctly. I'll run it again next week when I have time. I doubt there will be any significant changes.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have all the literature and everything was done correctly, it's not rocket science.

If you don't think the calibration is suppose to be done by the manual, how should it be done??

Personally have experimented and find a boom mic with a radius of 1.5-2 ft from mlp for the remaining 7 positions works best YMMV. The avr manual is limited, try many threads in the various audio fora on the subject let alone the use of the editor app or even the Pro or -X software....

 

[Mike Up]

Personally have experimented and find a boom mic with a radius of 1.5-2 ft from mlp for the remaining 7 positions works best YMMV. The avr manual is limited, try many threads in the various audio fora on the subject let alone the use of the editor app or even the Pro or -X software....

So the Audyssey mic that comes with the receiver is no good and shouldn't be used? Why wouldn't Denon or Audyssey include more instruction if they wanted their system to work properly? Does not make sense. As I said, I'll run it again with what I have, next week, if I can find time again.

 

[PENG]

So the Audyssey mic that comes with the receiver is no good and shouldn't be used? Why wouldn't Denon or Audyssey include more instruction if they wanted their system to work properly? Does not make sense. As I said, I'll run it again with what I have, next week, if I can find time again.

That seemingly cheap mic is fine for what it does. People rave about the much more expensive calibrated one, but if you compare their specs, it is obviously just marketing hype, no scientifically based arguments can be made for using such mic can result in audibly better sound quality.

The key, in my experience, is to follow instructions to the letter, and then play with the $20 app to make a few easy tweaks for audibly better results.

 

[Trell]

So the Audyssey mic that comes with the receiver is no good and shouldn't be used? Why wouldn't Denon or Audyssey include more instruction if they wanted their system to work properly? Does not make sense. As I said, I'll run it again with what I have, next week, if I can find time again.

You’ll have to use that mic with Audyssey unless you buy the Audyssey ACM1-X microphone that is individually calibrated (which requires the MultEQ-X software). The one you got with your AVR is batch calibrated. I do have a very nice measurement microphone but it can’t be used by the Audyssey room EQ.

As @PENG wrote it does the job it’s supposed to do.

The version of Audyssey you got is not that good (IMO), compared to XT32. The XT32 does much more in the bass area where it’s needed and not so much in the higher frequencies. Unfortunately, my 2015 model Denon AVR (that has XT32) did not get the app update so I can’t turn off correction for higher frequencies.