Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[davidscott]

The vast majority of Americans supports background checks, criminal as well as health, so there is a tiny minority that is against. Over the years there've been many polls done by different pollsters with about the same result.

Here is one done April 2023 and is from Fox "News". It shows similar to other polls:

>>>After a series of mass shootings this spring, including the killing of several students at a private Christian school in Tennessee, voters would prefer focusing on specific gun control measures rather than arming citizens to reduce gun violence.

A new Fox News Poll finds most voters favor the following proposals:

-- Requiring criminal background checks on all gun buyers (87%)

-- Improving enforcement of existing gun laws (81%)

-- Raising the legal age to buy a gun to 21 (81%)

-- Requiring mental health checks on gun buyers (80%)

-- Allowing police to take guns from those considered a danger to themselves or others (80%)

-- Requiring a 30-day waiting period for all gun purchases (77%) ...<<<

Fox News Poll: Voters favor gun limits over arming citizens to reduce gun violence

A new Fox News poll found that most voters favored more limits on gun rights rather than an increase in arming Americans to combat gun violence.

www.foxnews.com

And that's a FOX poll. Seems that it would be a no brainer for these reasonable proposals to be signed into law. Oh wait, we still have to deal with the Almighty NRA Lobby.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Apparently, it's the most popular rifle for hunting, ....

For what? Much easier to go to the meat or grocery store.

 

[Mikado463]

For what?

While I do not own any 'black rifles' , in states where allowed, accurized variants have proven popular for varmint hunting.

Much easier to go to the meat or grocery store.

I know of no grocery stores in my area selling venison

 

[davidscott]

For what? Much easier to go to the meat or grocery store.

Or use some actual hunting skills to take a deer?

 

[Mikado463]

Or use some actual hunting skills to take a deer?

hunting skills go far beyond the discharge of ANY firearm.

 

[davidscott]

Agreed.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
I know of no grocery stores in my area selling venison

Tell them you are a customer needing some.

 

[highfigh]

For what? Much easier to go to the meat or grocery store.

Have you discussed hunting, with hunters? Many are level-headed about it, some, are complete wingnuts, some are completely unethical (shooting animals just for fun or to cut the antlers/horns off and leave the rest).

Why would hunters prefer going to the store when wild game can be healthier, like Deer, Elk, Wild Turkey (not in a bottle), etc? Deer, etc contain far less fat and if it tests negative for diseases, it's a great way to supplement the food supply. I can buy fish, but a day out, whether at a river or lake is a better experience, IMO. Have you looked at the labels on packaged fish? Packages of Salmon, Cod, Haddock and many other species show 'Product of China- f&ck them, I don't want to support that country.

 

[highfigh]

I know of no grocery stores in my area selling venison

I think it's odd that game isn't more available in general and specifically here, since Wisconsin allows donating Venison to food banks, I think it would be great to have a wild game option in more stores. An Elk farm is located relatively close but it's very expensive. OTOH, meat from a good butcher isn't cheap, either.

 

[Trell]

I think it's odd that game isn't more available in general and specifically here, since Wisconsin allows donating Venison to food banks, I think it would be great to have a wild game option in more stores. An Elk farm is located relatively close but it's very expensive. OTOH, meat from a good butcher isn't cheap, either.

The same oddness in North Sweden where many are hunting, so unless you hunt or know people hunting game meat is not that easily available.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Have you discussed hunting, with hunters? Many are level-headed about it, some, are complete wingnuts, some are completely unethical (shooting animals just for fun or to cut the antlers/horns off and leave the rest).

Why would hunters prefer going to the store when wild game can be healthier, like Deer, Elk, Wild Turkey (not in a bottle), etc? Deer, etc contain far less fat and if it tests negative for diseases, it's a great way to supplement the food supply. I can buy fish, but a day out, whether at a river or lake is a better experience, IMO. Have you looked at the labels on packaged fish? Packages of Salmon, Cod, Haddock and many other species show 'Product of China- f&ck them, I don't want to support that country.

They hunt with an AR-15?
So, hunters hunt for all their meat game? Oh, it is not in season 365 days. Yes, freeze it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The same oddness in North Sweden where many are hunting, so unless you hunt or know people hunting game meat is not that easily available.

Perhaps it is illegal to hunt for commercial purposes?

 

[Mikado463]

They hunt with an AR-15?

Yes, I already gave you one example ..........

 

[highfigh]

They hunt with an AR-15?
So, hunters hunt for all their meat game? Oh, it is not in season 365 days. Yes, freeze it.

Some do, but not necessarily for large game- it is basically a .22, after all. The difference between an AR-15 and a .22 rifle is that the AR-15's bullets have a lot more powder pushing the projectile, so the force is much larger when it hits. Larger calibers are generally used because they're often more lethal, but as the link shows, this is changing. Ethical hunting means that the animal shouldn't be wounded, just to run off and suffer a lingering death. Trained hunters know where to hit the target with more effect than just winging it. Some act like Don Knotts in The Shakiest Gun In The West as soon as they see a Deer (I have posted about one of them).

Hunting is done during defined seasons, not all year. Can't even fish all year for most species.

 

[highfigh]

Perhaps it is illegal to hunt for commercial purposes?

NIH & DNR- Chronic Wasting Disease is a real problem and consumption of infected animals isn't recommended. Field test kits are more available, now.

CWD In-Field Test Developed by University of Minnesota Researchers

Researchers at the University of Minnesota say they have a CWD in-field test that can provide positive/negative results in just 24 hours.

www.bowhunting.com

 

[Trell]

Perhaps it is illegal to hunt for commercial purposes?

Not in Sweden nor Norway as it can be bought in stores. The meat has to be tested for parasites or infections before sale, of course.

 

[Mikado463]

Some do, but not necessarily for large game- it is basically a .22, after all. The difference between an AR-15 and a .22 rifle is that the AR-15's bullets have a lot more powder pushing the projectile, so the force is much larger when it hits.

Your explanation is a little off base. While the majority of AR-15's are .22 caliber(.223 or 5.56 NATO) the cartridge is no where close to that of a .22 rimfire. AR-15 are a center fire rifle that typically fires a bullet of between 50-70 grains whereas most rimfire .22's are around 40 grains with alot less muzzle velocity.

Larger calibers are generally used because they're often more lethal,

there are in fact larger calibre offerings for the AR-15

 

[mtrycrafts]

I will stick to store bought meats.

If one of those sy-fi movies of a calamity, I guess it better come after I am gone, or I will be gone soon afterwards.

 

[highfigh]

Your explanation is a little off base. While the majority of AR-15's are .22 caliber(.223 or 5.56 NATO) the cartridge is no where close to that of a .22 rimfire. AR-15 are a center fire rifle that typically fires a bullet of between 50-70 grains whereas most rimfire .22's are around 40 grains with alot less muzzle velocity.



there are in fact larger calibre offerings for the AR-15

Yeah, I generalized, but the typical AR is still .223/5.56mm- I know other calibers are available, but they're relatively new arrivals. It does move faster and hit harder- I should have mentioned this before. The difference in weight is small in general terms, but the velocity being so much higher means the larger round packs much more of a punch.

I don't like the media/politicians/activists calling these 'Assault Rifles', actual meaning of AR aside. They're promoting their agenda through fear, but not portraying this as a people problem, which it is, if they could only bring themselves to admit that people can be terrible. But that would show that people AREN'T cuddly, huggable and lovable.

 

[TankTop5]

40mm grenade launchers have been legal via ATF Form 1 and a $200 tax stamp. Furthermore the actual grenades are also completely legal (in most states) via the same process but after firing it you would need to notify the ATF of the grenades destruction via using it making it silly to bother buying them. Now someone in manufacturing stainless steel shell casings that use 45 ACP primers and include instructions for a binary explosive. Several people have already had them approved by the ATF. Now you can legally own a 40mm grande launcher and ammo and reload it forever.

I just may need one of these… just no crossing State lines with it