Danon X4700H, Arcam sa30 and 2 Subwoofers.

[Genchic]

Your point is well taken. Personally I would not be using any amp I cared about with those speakers.

It might be a long shot, but if Focal would give you the T/S parameters of the drivers and the crossover circuit, there is a high chance I could design impedance correction for the speakers, with a crossover mod.

When I have time I am planning on taking it up to Focal, and see what they have to say about it. If they provide T/S Parameters to me, I will share them with you. Thank you for your help in this matter.

 

[lovinthehd]

You are probably right. As I mantioned before, I know very little about the Speaker/Amp relation. Now I have a better idea. If I knew, we wouldn't be talking about it. I do have a very good ear though, I used to play and sing in a music band, and I know what kind of soud I want to enjoy the music I listen. I want to thank everyone who participated in this conversation. Hopefully, other music lovers who come across of this thread and have similar issues with their gear setup, will get help, just as I did.

As I like to say, preference isn't necessarily reference. Most 2ch integrateds lack good tools for sub integration/eq, which often just makes it easier to get something to preference with various speakers/rooms.

 

[TLS Guy]

When I have time I am planning on taking it up to Focal, and see what they have to say about it. If they provide T/S Parameters to me, I will share them with you. Thank you for your help in this matter.

There is a pretty good bet they won't. In you system I would not go to bookshelf speakers. KEF is a good bet, but go to a Mets MTM unit at least.

 

[Genchic]

There is a pretty good bet they won't. In you system I would not go to bookshelf speakers. KEF is a good bet, but go to a Mets MTM unit at least.

Never heard of them. But I will check them out.

 

[TLS Guy]

Never heard of them. But I will check them out.

It is where two drivers are mounted above and below a tweeter.

Like this mid tweeter array.

And these right and left in wall speakers.

KEF have a number of MTM designs.

It provides an optimal dispersion pattern, especially minimizing floor bounce problems.

 

[Genchic]

It is where two drivers are mounted above and below a tweeter.

Like this mid tweeter array.

And these right and left in wall speakers.

KEF have a number of MTM designs.

It provides an optimal dispersion pattern, especially minimizing floor bounce problems.

Now I see. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[Trell]

Now I see. Thank you for the explanation.

The MTM is also often used in center speakers and placed horizontally. That is not a good orientation as it has a number of disadvantages, chiefly not a good listening experience for anyone sitting far enough off-axis.

 

[Genchic]

The MTM is also often used in center speakers and placed horizontally. That is not a good orientation as it has a number of disadvantages, chiefly not a good listening experience for anyone sitting far enough off-axis.

Unfortunately, if you don't have a designated intertainment room, it is close to impossible to set up speakers the way we would want. Audiophiles with limited space and "$-pockets-$" do the best we can.

 

[Eppie]

Denon X4700H has a preamp mode. All the internal amps are off. And the Arcam SA30, I was considering, has an amp bypass, it works as an amp only. It is doable, but based on what I learned here, the Arcam has is about the same parameters as the Denon. The only thing about it it goes to A class on volume up to 50W, which supposed to give me a clearer sound in low volume listening. In addition to this, it has a n MC phono input, which gives me more flexibility with listening my vinyls.

I see no amp bypass in the owner's manual. The Arcam has a pre-amp out to connect a second amplifier, but there is no amp input to bypass the pre-amp. The only analogue inputs are the CD, PVR and STB (and the phono inputs). I assume that the Denon pre-amp out would have to be connected to one of the 3 analogue inputs. Thus material from the Denon gets processed by the Denon pre-amp and then the Arcam pre-amp. The Analogue Direct Mode simply disables any digital processing and keeps the signal analogue to the pre-amp.

 

[Trell]

Unfortunately, if you don't have a designated intertainment room, it is close to impossible to set up speakers the way we would want. Audiophiles with limited space and "$-pockets-$" do the best we can.

When I ditched my old plasma TV I wall mounted my new OLED TV (not as heavy as the plasma) and a bookshelf fits nicely on the AV rack below the OLED.

Plenty of space for me.

 

[Genchic]

I see no amp bypass in the owner's manual. The Arcam has a pre-amp out to connect a second amplifier, but there is no amp input to bypass the pre-amp. The only analogue inputs are the CD, PVR and STB (and the phono inputs). I assume that the Denon pre-amp out would have to be connected to one of the 3 analogue inputs. Thus material from the Denon gets processed by the Denon pre-amp and then the Arcam pre-amp. The Analogue Direct Mode simply disables any digital processing and keeps the signal analogue to the pre-amp.

Arcam SA30 has an Amp Bypass. You choose which input you want to use for it, and set it up as bypass in manues. Phono and Personal Video Recorder, PVR, if I remember correctly, are not available for this setting. I use STB as Amp bypass.

 

[Genchic]

When I ditched my old plasma TV I wall mounted my new OLED TV (not as heavy as the plasma) and a bookshelf fits nicely on the AV rack below the OLED.

Plenty of space for me.

Wow! Very impressive! I do have a future plan to wall mount my TV, then I'll see if I can pit my center channel vertically.

 

[Eppie]

Arcam SA30 has an Amp Bypass. You choose which input you want to use for it, and set it up as bypass in manues. Phono and Personal Video Recorder, PVR, if I remember correctly, are not available for this setting. I use STB as Amp bypass.

Interesting feature. I could not find it in the PDF manual currently posted.
https://www.arcam.co.uk/product,hda,integrated-amplifiers,sa30.htm

 

[Genchic]

Interesting feature. I could not find it in the PDF manual currently posted.
https://www.arcam.co.uk/product,hda,integrated-amplifiers,sa30.htm

Start on the page en-13, it refers you to en-20 "processor mode" they make it sound complicated, but it is really easy to setup.

 

[Eppie]

Start on the page en-13, it refers you to en-20 "processor mode" they make it sound complicated, but it is really easy to setup.

OK, I see now, I was searching for "bypass". It basically sets the specified input to a fixed level, so the pre-amp is still used but the volume control has no effect. That's not the same as a true amp-in connection that bypasses the pre-amp completely, but does yield the result you were trying to achieve.

 

[Genchic]

OK, I see now, I was searching for "bypass". It basically sets the specified input to a fixed level, so the pre-amp is still used but the volume control has no effect. That's not the same as a true amp-in connection that bypasses the pre-amp completely, but does yield the result you were trying to achieve.

Actually, it is a bypass. The you have gain, you can set to any level you like, and use volume control on your preamp to control the volume. In this mode Arcam SA30 preamp is bypassed, not used. For some reason thise British companies have their own way naming fitures in the electronics, like PVR, I would never guessed what it is. PM stands for processor mode, meaning only amp (processor) is used.

 

[lovinthehd]

Actually, it is a bypass. The you have gain, you can set to any level you like, and use volume control on your preamp to control the volume. In this mode Arcam SA30 preamp is bypassed, not used. For some reason thise British companies have their own way naming fitures in the electronics, like PVR, I would never guessed what it is. PM stands for processor mode, meaning only amp (processor) is used.

Why would one equate amp with processor? Processor sounds more like pre-amp section....

 

[Genchic]

Why would one equate amp with processor? Processor sounds more like pre-amp section....

This is how they named it. Bits me.

 

[PENG]

Actually, it is a bypass. The you have gain, you can set to any level you like, and use volume control on your preamp to control the volume. In this mode Arcam SA30 preamp is bypassed, not used. For some reason thise British companies have their own way naming fitures in the electronics, like PVR, I would never guessed what it is. PM stands for processor mode, meaning only amp (processor) is used.

We are not going to convince you Arcam amps are not design to have it's own sound that is audibly different to humans than just being transparent. That's because Arcam knows how to design amplifiers that simply literally amplifier the input signal, i.e. what goes in, what comes out, the only change is the magnitude. So in a blind listening session, it will sound the same to you as the Denon, but again, we cannot convince anyone who believe such well designed amps will sound different when used well within their limits. That said, if there is an outside chance that you could be convinced, or partially convinced, and you want to make sure you are getting the best out of those Focal speakers, you need to grab a power amp that is truly rated about at least 300 W into 4 ohms. Any cheap class D amp that Amir tested and manage to have SINAD>80 dB will do, as it will be as transparent as the relatively weak Arcam amp that seem to like (it's "sound").

So, that's it for amps, all up to you obviously, but as for the speakers, with due respect, TLSGuy is knowledgeable in crossover design, but he can be very biased, so I would suggest if you like what you got, keep it, it just need amps that can deliver the current it needs and it will sound very good. KEF reference class speakers will be better, more neutral/accurate, but that does not mean you prefer them, and pretty much all KEF reference, even some R series speakers will be more demanding (in current/amperes) than your Focal Aria speakers so that little Arcam amp still won't do it. It will do, just not getting the best.. You got pretty of facts now, objectively only though lol..

 

[PENG]

Why would one equate amp with processor? Processor sounds more like pre-amp section....

It call it "processor mode" because it is the selection for using the unit (the integrated amp) with a preamp/processor. Nothing wrong with that, just slightly confusing to people who for some misguided reasons (myths, hearsay, placebo influence, misconception etc.), want to use an integrated amp with preamp/processors or AVRs.