Danon X4700H, Arcam sa30 and 2 Subwoofers.

[Swerd]

When you are in a store in their listening room and auditioning several AVRs, they all sound a little different. You choose one, bring it home and it doesn't sound even close to what you heard in the store. Why? Because your room is different.

What makes for different sounding rooms? Sound as it emanates from speakers, travels through the air, in 3 dimensions. It is well known to interact with rooms in complex ways. Sound reflects off of nearby walls, ceilings & floors only after leaving the speakers. It also matters where the listener sits with regard to speakers and reflecting surfaces. Audio dealers certainly know all this. You can safely assume they take full advantage of this when presenting products to customers.

When you listened in the store, I'm guessing that you were aware of which AVR or integrated amp you were hearing. Did the salesman keep you blind to that as you listened? If so, did the salesman also perform the audition multiple times, switching between AVR and integrated amp?

Did the salesman always switch from one product to the other, in an A vs. B manner? Or, did he occasionally present an A vs. A choice to you? Hearing subtle difference in sound quality can be very difficult. How can you tell how reliable your reactions were? This is not about dishonesty – it's about reliability, both of the test and your reactions.

You were one single listener, N=1. How many other people have also done this kind of audition? Simple statistics can help answer these questions, but only when plenty of people have heard such auditions. When N=1, no statistical analysis can happen.

These kind of auditions really can help you choose a product to buy. They can be done without being in a science lab, wearing a white lab coat.

And finally, consider some theoretical reasons. if two different pieces of electronic gear are compared while speakers are the same, how can an electronic audio signal effect room sound? Electronic audio signals are two dimensional, not three, as sound travels through the air. Unlike sounds from speakers, electronic audio signals cannot reflect off of nearby surfaces. Room correction software, such as Dirac or Audyssey, are efforts in digital equalization to correct room responses, not speaker responses. Sometimes room EQ can be effective, and other times not. But they work best when reflecting surfaces and positions of speakers and listener are not ideal. They cannot improve or equalize sound as it emanates from a speaker if the speaker has flawed frequency responses.

I doubt if anything I or others said here will change your mind. I said all this because this is a public audio forum where many others read these threads. They just might benefit before they lay their money down.

 

[Swerd]

I would never ignore a post like this. And I appreciate you taking your time to write it that long. This is the reason I raised my question here, to get multiple opinions to develop my own and make a right decision in setting up my stereo.

We do respect you for that .

… I purchased Denon 4700 when I was planning to drive Klipsch 5.2.3 set of speakers. After setting everything up my wife, who has an excellent ear, and I hated the sound. We returned the Klipsch, and got the Focals that we loved how they sounded in a show room comparing to other brands in the same price range.

Good that you recognized that you hated those Klipschs. The Focals are in a different class than the Klipschs. There's hope for you yet .

We decided no to use surround anymore and left L C R and 2 subs.

Anther wise choice. The most important sound comes from the front speakers. You can always add surround speakers later, but don't expect large differences.

The focals sounded great, but not for long, the sound quality started going down rapidly, and lots of unusual noises started coming out of different speakers and subwoofers. After a lengthy troubleshooting time with Denon reps involved, we determined that the AVR has gone bad.

Thanks for sharing that detail. It does seem like something in the Denon, perhaps it's power amp section, had gone bad. Did you or Denon think that the Focals power demands might have caused the 4700 to be over driven?

After repairing it under factory warranty I came to a decision to start using it as a preamp.

That also seems reasonable, until you chose to use the Denon as a preamp while pairing it with an Arcam integrated amp that includes its own preamp. That's the main reason why we suggested you return the integrated amp and get a 2 or 3 channel power amp instead.

I didn't see anything wrong with using an AVR for 2 channel stereo, but for some reason everybody is telling me that this Denon is underpowered for my speakers, and this is the main reason it sounds as it sounds. This is the reason I started exploring options with Arcam, which has a little more power than Denon.

Denon rates the 4700 as producing 125 watts/channel, while driving two 8 Ω speakers, over a range of 20 Hz – 20 kHz, with 0.05 % total harmonic distortion (THD). Your Arcam has similar power, 120 watts/channel. Both may not be enough to drive your Focal speakers, which are known to be somewhat hard to drive. That's why I suggested those more powerful Class D power amps in an earlier post.

Look to double or triple the power over a 120/125 watts/channel amp. You won't really notice any difference with double the power. Go for more. Personally, I would choose the Hypex NC502 in 2-channel or 3-channel if available. 350 Watts while driving two 8 Ω speakers is triple the power of either the Denon or the Acram.

 

[PENG]

but for some reason everybody is telling me that this Denon is underpowered for my speakers, and this is the main reason it sounds as it sounds.

If I remember right, I probably am one of those who might have told you something like that, except I would still say the midrange Denon AVR could be adequate for near field listening and/or at relatively low SPL, say less than 70 dB average 90 dB peak from less than 3 meters. Even my tiny Denon AVR has enough juice to drive my Focal 1028Be but I would never use any AVR for them, it just doesn't make sense to me when I could use separate preamp/power amp that I already have, and I do want to listen at louder level occasionally and don't want to hear any distortions.

 

[Genchic]

+1

Peng knows what he talks about.



The modern thing to do is leave this world and cars, and put our heads into the sky listening for strange sounds!

Like this one this recent incident on The Starliner spacecraft has started to emit strange noises:

The weird noise is 45 seconds in this clip:

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024-08-31-Sat-0800_trim.mp3?_=1

LOL! My noises were in forms of static and loud clicks. I started looking at bad connections in wiring, changes interconnect, speaker wires, subs wires, and then seemed denon support and found out that was the AVR's mother board going out. Thanks to Denon 3 year warranty.

 

[Genchic]

We do respect you for that .
Good that you recognized that you hated those Klipschs. The Focals are in a different class than the Klipschs. There's hope for you yet .
Anther wise choice. The most important sound comes from the front speakers. You can always add surround speakers later, but don't expect large differences.
Thanks for sharing that detail. It does seem like the Denon's power amp section had gone bad. Did you or Denon think that the 4700 was overdriven by those Focals?
That also seems reasonable, until you chose to use the Denon as a preamp while pairing it with an Arcam integrated amp that includes its own preamp. That's the only reason why we suggested you return the integrated amp and get a 2 or 3 channel power amp instead.
Denon rates the 4700 as producing 125 watts/channel, while driving two 8 Ω speakers, over a range of 20 Hz – 20 kHz, with 0.05 % total harmonic distortion (THD). Your Arcam has similar power, 120 watt/channel. Both may not be enough to drive your Focal speakers, which are known to be somewhat hard to drive. That's why I suggested those more powerful Class D power amps in an earlier post. Look to double or triple the power over a 120/125 watt/channel amp. And you won't really notice any difference with double the power. Go for more. Personally, I would choose the Hypex NC502 in 2-channel or 3-channel if available. 350 Watts while driving two 8 Ω speakers is triple the power of either the Denon or the Acram.

Not the Denon rep, nor the guy who did the repair mantioned the fact Focals overdrive the Denon. When I was buying the Focals, the sales person asked me what I will be using to power them, when I told hem I have the 4700, there was a moment of silence, and then he said, without any enthusiasm, it should be Okey.

 

[Genchic]

What makes for different sounding rooms? Sound as it emanates from speakers, travels through the air, in 3 dimensions. It is well known to interact with rooms in complex ways. Sound reflects off of nearby walls, ceilings & floors only after leaving the speakers. It also matters where the listener sits with regard to speakers and reflecting surfaces. Audio dealers certainly know all this. You can safely assume they take full advantage of this when presenting products to customers.

When you listened in the store, I'm guessing that you were aware of which AVR or integrated amp you were hearing. Did the saleman keep you blind to that as you listened? If so, did the saleman also perform the audition multiple times, switching betweem AVR and integrated amp?

Did the salesman always switch from one product to the other, in an A vs. B manner? Or, did he occasionaly present an A vs. A choice to you? Hearing subtle difference in sound quality can be very difficult. How can you tell how reliable your reactions were? This is not about dishonesty – it's about reliiability, both of the test and your reactions.

You were one single listener, N=1. How many other people have also done this kind of audition? Simple statistics can help answer these questions, but only when plenty of people have heard such auditions. When N=1, no statistical analysis can happen.

These kind of auditions really can help you choose a product to buy. They can be done without being in a science lab, wearing a white lab coar.

And finally, consider some theoretical reasons. How can an electronic audio signal effect room sound, if two different pieces of electronic gear are compared when speakers are the same? Electronic audio signals are two dimensional, not three, as sound travels through the air. Electronic audio signals cannot reflect off of nearby surfaces. Room correction software, such as Dirac or Audyssey, are efforts in digital equalization to correct room responses, not speaker responses. Sometimes room EQ can be effective, and other times not. But they work best when reflecting surfaces and positions of speakers and listener are not ideal. They cannot improve or equalize sound as it emanates from a speaker if the speaker has flawed frequency responses.

I doubt if anything I or others said here will change your mind. I said all this because this is a public audio forum where many others read these threads. They just might benefit before they lay their money down.

You're right on the money with auditioning conditions. When we were auditioning speakers there were 4 people in the room with me, we all seconded on Focals sound the best. When we started shopping for a home audio with my wife, we listened to different amps with the same set of speakers, and Arcam sounded the best. There was no Denon in their room at that time. There were only 2 of us. I still got the Denon based on my previous experience with it. I still think Denon makes an excellent products, if I found a denon amp with 200+ w per channel for about $2k, I'd most likely went for it.

 

[Swerd]

Not the Denon rep, nor the guy who did the repair mentioned the fact Focals overdrive the Denon. When I was buying the Focals, the sales person asked me what I will be using to power them, when I told hem I have the 4700, there was a moment of silence, and then he said, without any enthusiasm, it should be Okey.

Was that sales person telling you the truth? Or was he manipulating you when "there was a moment of silence, and then he said, without any enthusiasm, it (the Denon 4700 AVR) should be Okey"? You were there, and I was not.

I finally found the manufacturer's specs for the Focal Aria 926. It is no longer available, but I found them published in a review. Usually that magazine/web site doesn't measure anything themselves. They simply repeat what the manufacturer told them.

Sensitivity: 91.5 dB (estimated at 2.83V at a distance of 1m)
Nominal impedance: 8 Ohms
Minimum impedance: 2.9 Ohms
Recommended amplifier power: 40 – 250W
Crossover frequencies: 290Hz / 2400Hz

We have already discussed this speaker's low impedance of under 3 Ohms in the frequency range of 80 to about 500 Hz. With a woofer-to-mid range crossover so low at 290 Hz, it will make large demands on any amp. I remember @TLS Guy commenting how he thought that this feature made that speaker a poor design.

The speaker's high sensitivity of 91.5 dB is very high. Sensitivities of 86 to 89 dB are more commonly seen. I have to wonder if Focal measured that value in the range of 80-500 Hz where the impedance is so low. There are no industry standards for measuring or reporting a speaker's sensitivity. Let the buyer beware.

I'm going over this just to say, it is possible that your Focals did over stress the Denon AVR. Your Denon definitely did fail, but we'll never know for certain if the Focals caused them to fail. It also suggests, but does not prove, that the Denon's amp section was less robust than the Arcam integrated amp, even though they have similar power ratings.

Finally, Focal recommends the Aria 926 be driven by an amplifier that delivers power in the range of 40 – 250W. @PENG had previously noted that. It becomes more & more clear to me that your Focals are more power hungry than your Denon can deliver. Look for an amp that triples your present power of 120-125 W.

Power is not only about how loud you want to drive your speakers. It's about how clean your speakers can sound with higher power at any loudness level – without causing the amp to become stressed or go into clipping. It also depends on music preferences, and all those room variables we discussed earlier.

In a perfect world I'd recommend multiplying your amp's power by 10-fold, from 120 W to 1,200 W. In math speak, boost the power by a full log. But in reality, that's too expensive, or not even possible. So, we settle for boosting the power by a half-log, the square root of 10-fold, or 3.16-fold. Triple is good enough.

 

[TLS Guy]

Was that sales person telling you the truth? Or was he manipulating you when "there was a moment of silence, and then he said, without any enthusiasm, it (the Denon 4700 AVR) should be Okey"? You were there, and I was not.

I finally found the manufacturer's specs for the Focal Aria 926. It is no longer available, and I found them published in a review. Usually that magazine/web site doesn't measure anything themselves. They simply repeat what Focal told them.

Sensitivity: 91.5 dB (estimated at 2.83V at a distance of 1m)
Nominal impedance: 8 Ohms
Minimum impedance: 2.9 Ohms
Recommended amplifier power: 40 – 250W
Crossover frequencies: 290Hz / 2400Hz

We have already discussed this speaker's low impedance of under 3 Ohms in the frequency range of 80 to about 500 Hz. With a woofer-to-mid range crossover so low at 290 Hz, it will make large demands on any amp. I remember @TLS Guy commenting how he thought that this feature made that speaker a poor design.

The speaker's high sensitivity of 91.5 dB is very high. Sensitivities of 86 to 89 dB are more commonly seen. I have to wonder if Focal measured that value in the range of 80-500 Hz where the impedance is so low. There are no industry standards for measuring or reporting a speaker's sensitivity. Let the buyer beware.

I'm going over this just to say, it is possible that your Focals did over stress the Denon AVR. Your Denon definitely did fail, but we'll never know for certain if the Focals caused them to fail. It also suggests, but does not prove, that the Denon's amp section was less robust than the Arcam integrated amp, even though they have similar power ratings.

Finally, Focal recommends the Aria 926 be driven by an amplifier that delivers power in the range of 40 – 250W. @PENG had previously noted that. It becomes more & more clear to me that your Focals are more power hungry than your Denon can deliver. Look for an amp that triples your present power of 120-125 W.

Power is not only about how loud you want to drive your speakers. It's about how clean your speakers can sound with higher power at any loudness level – without causing the amp to become stressed or go into clipping. It also depends on music preferences, and all those room variables we discussed earlier.

In a perfect world I'd recommend multiplying your amp's power by 10-fold, from 120 W to 1,200 W. In math speak, boost the power by a full log. But in reality, that's too expensive or not even possible. So, we settle for boosting the power by a half-log, the square root of 10-fold, or 3.16-fold. Triple is good enough.

Swerd, I called the design incompetent and it is.

 

[Genchic]

Was that sales person telling you the truth? Or was he manipulating you when "there was a moment of silence, and then he said, without any enthusiasm, it (the Denon 4700 AVR) should be Okey"? You were there, and I was not.

I finally found the manufacturer's specs for the Focal Aria 926. It is no longer available, and I found them published in a review. Usually that magazine/web site doesn't measure anything themselves. They simply repeat what Focal told them.

Sensitivity: 91.5 dB (estimated at 2.83V at a distance of 1m)
Nominal impedance: 8 Ohms
Minimum impedance: 2.9 Ohms
Recommended amplifier power: 40 – 250W
Crossover frequencies: 290Hz / 2400Hz

We have already discussed this speaker's low impedance of under 3 Ohms in the frequency range of 80 to about 500 Hz. With a woofer-to-mid range crossover so low at 290 Hz, it will make large demands on any amp. I remember @TLS Guy commenting how he thought that this feature made that speaker a poor design.

The speaker's high sensitivity of 91.5 dB is very high. Sensitivities of 86 to 89 dB are more commonly seen. I have to wonder if Focal measured that value in the range of 80-500 Hz where the impedance is so low. There are no industry standards for measuring or reporting a speaker's sensitivity. Let the buyer beware.

I'm going over this just to say, it is possible that your Focals did over stress the Denon AVR. Your Denon definitely did fail, but we'll never know for certain if the Focals caused them to fail. It also suggests, but does not prove, that the Denon's amp section was less robust than the Arcam integrated amp, even though they have similar power ratings.

Finally, Focal recommends the Aria 926 be driven by an amplifier that delivers power in the range of 40 – 250W. @PENG had previously noted that. It becomes more & more clear to me that your Focals are more power hungry than your Denon can deliver. Look for an amp that triples your present power of 120-125 W.

Power is not only about how loud you want to drive your speakers. It's about how clean your speakers can sound with higher power at any loudness level – without causing the amp to become stressed or go into clipping. It also depends on music preferences, and all those room variables we discussed earlier.

In a perfect world I'd recommend multiplying your amp's power by 10-fold, from 120 W to 1,200 W. In math speak, boost the power by a full log. But in reality, that's too expensive or not even possible. So, we settle for boosting the power by a half-log, the square root of 10-fold, or 3.16-fold. Triple is good enough.

When sales person gave a thought befor his answer, I think he was calculating the wattage of the amp to the speakers impedance, and he had doubts about his answer.

 

[lovinthehd]

When sales person gave a thought befor his answer, I think he was calculating the wattage of the amp to the speakers impedance, and he had doubts about his answer.

LOL I certainly couldn't imagine many audio salesmen understanding this relationship. It doesn't seem you understand it either....

 

[Genchic]

LOL I certainly couldn't imagine many audio salesmen understanding this relationship. It doesn't seem you understand it either....

You are probably right. As I mantioned before, I know very little about the Speaker/Amp relation. Now I have a better idea. If I knew, we wouldn't be talking about it. I do have a very good ear though, I used to play and sing in a music band, and I know what kind of soud I want to enjoy the music I listen. I want to thank everyone who participated in this conversation. Hopefully, other music lovers who come across of this thread and have similar issues with their gear setup, will get help, just as I did.

 

[Swerd]

Swerd, I called the design incompetent and it is.

If Focal's speaker designers deliberately designed the Aria 926 this way, I would agree. It should be called an incompetent design.

If Focal's designers originally designed it correctly, but Focal execs over ruled them for financial or marketing reasons, it should not be blamed on design incompetence. It was a poor design … probably due to corporate negligence.

This wouldn't be the first time we've seen this problem in large corporations.

You say tomato (to MAY to) … and I say tomato (to MAH to)

 

[Trell]

You say tomato (to MAY to) … and I say tomato (to MAH to)

Sound clips of what @Swerd refers to:

TOMATO | Pronunciation in English

TOMATO pronunciation. How to say TOMATO. Listen to the audio pronunciation in English. Learn more.

dictionary.cambridge.org

Next up is Quale with "potato" vs "potatoe".

Sadly, no resolution for the hugely important extra letter e to signify that this is freedom fries calibre, before his time!

POTATO | Pronunciation in English

POTATO pronunciation. How to say POTATO. Listen to the audio pronunciation in English. Learn more.

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[Trell]

If Focal's designers originally designed it correctly, but Focal execs over ruled them for financial or marketing reasons, it should not be blamed on design incompetence. It was a poor design … probably due to corporate negligence.

Not the first time nor the last that engineers have been trodden upon by salesmen, marketeers and unenlightened "management". I don't know if that is the case here, though.

 

[TLS Guy]

If Focal's speaker designers deliberately designed the Aria 926 this way, I would agree. It should be called an incompetent design.

If Focal's designers originally designed it correctly, but Focal execs over ruled them for financial or marketing reasons, it should not be blamed on design incompetence. It was a poor design … probably due to corporate negligence.

This wouldn't be the first time we've seen this problem in large corporations.

You say tomato (to MAY to) … and I say tomato (to MAH to)

Incompetence implies nothing about motivation. It implies ignorance and or lack of skill.

I don't care if the incompetence is in the design team or management. The end result it the same.

What would really sort this driver out would be the design of a mid that could truly cover the speech discrimination band, or an active speaker. When you try and design a band pass filter, below about 400 Hz far more likely than not you will encounter these sort of problems. There will also be problems that don't show up on standard measurements. The marketers come in because people have become to be convinced a three way speaker is inherently superior to a two way, and it is not.

All of this is the reason that passive subs went the way of the 'dodo' fast. The reason is that it is technically impossible to make one remotely acceptable.

 

[Genchic]

Incompetence implies nothing about motivation. It implies ignorance and or lack of skill.

I don't care if the incompetence is in the design team or management. The end result it the same.

What would really sort this driver out would be the design of a mid that could truly cover the speech discrimination band, or an active speaker. When you try and design a band pass filter, below about 400 Hz far more likely than not you will encounter these sort of problems. There will also be problems that don't show up on standard measurements. The marketers come in because people have become to be convinced a three way speaker is inherently superior to a two way, and it is not.

All of this is the reason that passive subs went the way of the 'dodo' fast. The reason is that it is technically impossible to make one remotely acceptable.

Unfortunately speakers are the hardest part of home stereo to replace/update, because they are the most expensive ones and they loose a lot of value right after your return period is over. In my case, I have to make them to work for me. I was raised on 3 way speakers. In 1980s, we didn't realy have good sounding 2 way speakers behind the iron curtain, where I'm coming from. Best we had were "S-90" I think they were Pioneer knockoffs, and subwoofers were never heard of. As of now, I'm doing a lot of research about some amplifiers, and most likely I will be still using my Danon as a preamp, and center channel for movies and an amplifier for stereo.
Thanks to all of you.

 

[TLS Guy]

Unfortunately speakers are the hardest part of home stereo to replace/update, because they are the most expensive ones and they loose a lot of value right after your return period is over. In my case, I have to make them to work for me. I was raised on 3 way speakers. In 1980s, we didn't realy have good sounding 2 way speakers behind the iron curtain, where I'm coming from. Best we had were "S-90" I think they were Pioneer knockoffs, and subwoofers were never heard of. As of now, I'm doing a lot of research about some amplifiers, and most likely I will be still using my Danon as a preamp, and center channel for movies and an amplifier for stereo.
Thanks to all of you.

Your point is well taken. Personally I would not be using any amp I cared about with those speakers.

It might be a long shot, but if Focal would give you the T/S parameters of the drivers and the crossover circuit, there is a high chance I could design impedance correction for the speakers, with a crossover mod.

 

[Eppie]

@Genchic You asked about simultaneously using an integrated amp as both just an amp and an integrated pre-amp / amp. Integrated amps are not designed to work that way as most do not have pre-amp out and amplifier in connections. Some integrated amps and receivers came with those connections and they would be bridged with a short connector from the factory. They were typically removed to insert an equalizer between the pre-amp and amp section or the internal amp could be bypassed by using the pre-amp out and connect a more powerful amplifier.

To use the integrated amp as just an amp, you need a means of bypassing the pre-amp. While connecting another source to the Aux or other input would work, you would effectively be using two pre-amps in series, one from the secondary source and then the pre-amp from the integrated amp, which could overdrive the input. To achieve what you mentioned, you would need a Y-splitter connected to the amp-in on the integrated. One connection going to the pre-amp out on the integrated and the other connection going to the pre-amp out on the secondary source.

It is possible to connect two devices to the amp-in because electrically these are high impedance connections. Is it recommended to connect things this way? Certainly not. You increase the potential for creating ground loops and introducing noise into the system and there is nothing preventing someone from playing back content from both sources at the same time because the pre-amps are bridged with no switching. From a fidelity standpoint, bridging pre-amps would likely affect the measureed response of the devices but I've never come across an article that mentions by how much. Most line level connections are high impedance and pretty robust but I can't discount the possibility that there are designs out there that would not work properly in that configuration.

 

[Genchic]

@Genchic You asked about simultaneously using an integrated amp as both just an amp and an integrated pre-amp / amp. Integrated amps are not designed to work that way as most do not have pre-amp out and amplifier in connections. Some integrated amps and receivers came with those connections and they would be bridged with a short connector from the factory. They were typically removed to insert an equalizer between the pre-amp and amp section or the internal amp could be bypassed by using the pre-amp out and connect a more powerful amplifier.

To use the integrated amp as just an amp, you need a means of bypassing the pre-amp. While connecting another source to the Aux or other input would work, you would effectively be using two pre-amps in series, one from the secondary source and then the pre-amp from the integrated amp, which could overdrive the input. To achieve what you mentioned, you would need a Y-splitter connected to the amp-in on the integrated. One connection going to the pre-amp out on the integrated and the other connection going to the pre-amp out on the secondary source.

It is possible to connect two devices to the amp-in because electrically these are high impedance connections. Is it recommended to connect things this way? Certainly not. You increase the potential for creating ground loops and introducing noise into the system and there is nothing preventing someone from playing back content from both sources at the same time because the pre-amps are bridged with no switching. From a fidelity standpoint, bridging pre-amps would likely affect the measureed response of the devices but I've never come across an article that mentions by how much. Most line level connections are high impedance and pretty robust but I can't discount the possibility that there are designs out there that would not work properly in that configuration.

Denon X4700H has a preamp mode. All the internal amps are off. And the Arcam SA30, I was considering, has an amp bypass, it works as an amp only. It is doable, but based on what I learned here, the Arcam has is about the same parameters as the Denon. The only thing about it it goes to A class on volume up to 50W, which supposed to give me a clearer sound in low volume listening. In addition to this, it has a n MC phono input, which gives me more flexibility with listenning my vinyls.

 

[Genchic]

Your point is well taken. Personally I would not be using any amp I cared about with those speakers.

It might be a long shot, but if Focal would give you the T/S parameters of the drivers and the crossover circuit, there is a high chance I could design impedance correction for the speakers, with a crossover mod.

May be I just shop for KEF R3 Meta. They seam like a good pair of speakers, and don't breake the bank.