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Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

  • Thread starter Thread starter highfigh
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cpp said:
I can tell ya nobody is going to use an actual Winchester Model 21 expect to let it set in a case. But yes a shotgun does some horrible damage.
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One of the guys from my subdivision had a big argument with his dad, shut himself in his room and blew his head off, literally and figuratively (I heard the description from one of the cops who responded). His brother and sister never recovered- the brother's emotional development stopped and when I have seen him in recent years, he acted very much like he was still 19. Someone else in the area used a .22 and it wasn't as gory, but he was just as dead. Handguns are used because they're easy to conceal and they're accurate enough if the shooter knows how to use them accurately, but so many don't and people die because of this. I see spraying bullets without aiming as stupidity. The US definitely has a problem with that and not all are dropouts.

People need to suck it up and accept the fact that they're doing a shytty job as parents, kids need to see that they're on a bad path and in order to deal with the present, the criminal justice system needs to keep violent criminals off of the streets. No more ten time losers.
 
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highfigh said:
People breed, even though they have no way to support the kids and some people with nothing have a lot of kids. When the parents are also addicted to drugs and alcohol, it's worse because any parenting is either missing completely, abusive or the kids are taught to be bad, by example.

Then, there's mental illness, which isn't being handled well, comes with so much stigma that nobody really wants to report it and government doesn't seem to have a clue about treating it.

But instead, let's have politicians who only want their party and candidate win and blather on about how much they're doing for the country, rather than addressing and fixing the problems.
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I have a close friend right now with no family in the State. He’s having some mental health problems, the kind where he doesn’t know he’s sick. I’m desperately trying to get him help but without his consent it’s nearly impossible. Called local police twice for a welfare check and they have a special crisis response team with a psychiatrist but neither time they ever showed up for the welfare check.

My medical transportation business is almost exclusively mental health. Once someone has committed a crime they get tons of help but it’s nearly impossible to get them help before they’re in the system. I also have a 15 year old daughter, fantastic medical insurance and I want to get her counseling, soonest appointment is almost a year out.

We have massive mental health issues in America and we aren’t doing anything about it.
 
Have you used the 988 crisis line?
 
highfigh said:
Damn, and there's no place close enough that it's not completely inconvenient?
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There’s a walk in mental health facility across town. He has moments of clarity so I’m going to try to walk him in if the opportunity arises. They can place him in an M1 hold which is what I think needs to happen. He needs a couple days supervised so that they can properly diagnose him and get him the meds he needs.
 
TankTop5 said:
There’s a walk in mental health facility across town. He has moments of clarity so I’m going to try to walk him in if the opportunity arises. They can place him in an M1 hold which is what I think needs to happen. He needs a couple days supervised so that they can properly diagnose him and get him the meds he needs.
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And then, there's the possibility that he'll stop taking the meds because he doesn't like the way they make him feel. This seems to cause a rebound effect, from the info I have gotten from others who have family members needing some kind of care.
 
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highfigh said:
And then, there's the possibility that he'll stop taking the meds because he doesn't like the way they make him feel. This seems to cause a rebound effect, from the info I have gotten from others who have family members needing some kind of care.
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I’m aware. With severe mental health issues going off the meds is significantly worse than never taking them at all. This is generally the case when you see homeless people exhibiting psychotic behavior, it’s really sad. When Reagan released all the mental patients it was a mixed bag and I don’t think we know what to do but doing nothing is definitely not the answer. Locking people up and throwing away the key because they’re sick also isn’t the answer.
 
TankTop5 said:
I’m aware. With severe mental health issues going off the meds is significantly worse than never taking them at all. This is generally the case when you see homeless people exhibiting psychotic behavior, it’s really sad. When Reagan released all the mental patients it was a mixed bag and I don’t think we know what to do but doing nothing is definitely not the answer. Locking people up and throwing away the key because they’re sick also isn’t the answer.
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And roughly 40 years have passed and nothing has been done to reverse that move.

How can politicians say they care about the country and do nothing about this?
 
highfigh said:
And roughly 40 years have passed and nothing has been done to reverse that move.

How can politicians say they care about the country and do nothing about this?
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Back in June 30, 1950, there were 577,000 patients or 3.8 per 1,000 population resident in all hospitals for the prolonged care of the mentally ill in the United States (Table 1). In addition there were 94,000 patients on extra-mural care.


And here is an interesting article ,

"
January 3, 2023 at 6:00 a.m. EST
Just when the United States started to make some progress reversing decades of mass incarceration, Democrats want to lock up people with mental illness in the name of compassion and care.
New York Mayor Eric Adams called it a “moral obligation” to hospitalize people against their will if they are a danger to themselves. His proposal has police officers assessing whether a person is mentally ill.


In Portland, Ore., Mayor Ted Wheeler recently told a roomful of business leaders that he wanted to lower the threshold for involuntary commitment of people who are both mentally ill and homeless, declaring: “They need help, and they need compassion.” The outgoing director of the Oregon Health Authority echoed Wheeler, calling for expanding the capacity of the Oregon State Hospital, the site of the 1975 film “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”



 
TankTop5 said:
No
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You actually agree with that clip of yours of hooded KKK and black men needing an assault rifle to protect themselves?

In other posts you write about a close friend of yours with psychiatric problems that is regressing without him understanding while stopping taking prescribed medication. That’s really commendable but is his guns taken away? The risk here is he, statistically, committing suicide.
 
Trell said:
You actually agree with that clip of yours of hooded KKK and black men needing an assault rifle to protect themselves?
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That stuff really happened in America and AR15’s in the hands of blacks would have saved a lot of lives. Fun fact, gun control legislation was originally to keep guns away from blacks. I grew up in Sacramento and much of my family is in politics, that’s where the Black Panthers walked into the State Capitol with rifles and didn’t threaten anyone. Anyway many people seem to think we are a more enlightened society and things like the KKK can’t happen again but looking through the lens of world history, humans prove time and again how terrible they can be. If fact probably 1/3 of the population of earth experiences this as a way of life. This is why many of us stand for our individual right to bear arms.
 
TankTop5 said:
That stuff really happened in America and AR15’s in the hands of blacks would have saved a lot of lives. Fun fact, gun control legislation was originally to keep guns away from blacks. I grew up in Sacramento and much of my family is in politics, that’s where the Black Panthers walked into the State Capitol with rifles and didn’t threaten anyone. Anyway many people seem to think we are a more enlightened society and things like the KKK can’t happen again but looking through the lens of world history, humans prove time and again how terrible they can be. If fact probably 1/3 of the population of earth experiences this as a way of life. This is why many of us stand for our individual right to bear arms.
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So your mentally ill close friend should keep his guns? One danger your dude does not understand is that he’s sick while skipping taking his medicine. Got it.

Then he kills dozens but you’re still a good friend. Would you say the same if your estranged 15 year ”daugther” was murdered?
 
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GO-NAD! said:
Some people point out Switzerland's high rate of firearm ownership and relatively low gun crime rates. However, firearm ownership in Switzerland is 1/4 that of America, per capita. And, gun crime there is the highest in Europe -
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Move over Switzerland, here comes Sweden .............


and for those not subscribed to the WSJ ........

www.intelligencefusion.co.uk

S7 ONE

www.intelligencefusion.co.uk www.intelligencefusion.co.uk
 
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Trell said:
Quoting relevant parts from the article to support your claim should be done. ;) Say from the paywalled WSJ article that you claimed to have read.
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No, read the damn article yourself and if you don't care to do so, tough $hit ! As for the WSJ, I subscribe to the paper so I don't consider the article 'paywalled'
 
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Mikado463 said:
No, read the damn article yourself and if you don't care to do so, tough $hit !
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I hit a nerve, didn’t I? With a dumb response from you.

I did read the non-WSJ from some outfit selling “security info” something you probably didn’t.

Mikado463 said:
As for the WSJ, I subscribe to the paper so I don't consider the article 'paywalled
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This one of the most dumb comments I’ve read in a while. Do you even know what a paywalled article even means?

For the second time in a few days you refuse to provide any quote from a WSJ article behind a paywall. So you either don’t have a subscription or you didn’t read it, apart from the headline, or both.
 
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