What would you do?

[Serithin]

Four years ago I visited a best buy magnolia because it was the only option locally for high end audio. I bought a pair of BnW 703 S2's, a matching center speaker, and 2 SVS PB2000 subs as well as a Marantz SR7013 AVR. this combo sounded the best at the price that they had to offer. I wanted separates but the sales guy told me for my budget this was best. Anyway I'm at a point where I want more power. What I liked about the Marantz is that it was warmer then the comparable Yamaha. I think the warmer sound is more musical but Is there such a thing as too warm for movies? Anyways... I have boiled things down to either the Parasound A23+ (it falls under my AVR's voltage sensitivity or 1.2v. It has a gain of 29 and I like that it has a gain knob. I was considering the Rotel 1582 for awhile but the input sensitivity is around 1.8v I think and there is no gain knob. Another person told me that he had to push the volume higher then the standard AVR would go to get the same loudness results. That did not sound good. 2,000-2,500 ish is my budget. What would you do? I was looking at some used McIntosh's but I also hear that those are over priced. I just want more dynamics, detail, more spacious sound and more 2 channel stereo musical sound. What would you do? Parasound, Rotel, McIntosh, Emotiva... So many choices.. I want to join a community to learn more as well. Thanks in advance.

 

[MrBoat]

How big is this room? The Marantz is over 100W and the speakers sensitivity is 90db. That ought to run you out of the room, especially with subs, at least with music, unless the room sucks somehow. Sometimes the internet can offer too much information overload, before many people learn to optimize what they have first.

 

[Serithin]

The room is about 12 x14 feet. My problem is not volume level though. Its dynamics, celerity, and fullness of sound. I don't even run my surround sound speakers because I can tell it pulls power away from my bed layer which is already seemingly stretched thin. Thank you for that perspective. I'm going to add 8 panels to my walls to eliminate treatments as a possible contributor. I can even tell that the mid range sounds better with the subs enabled because when the subs are on then the full range towers are crossed over to 60hz and higher. The sub amps take care of the low end with movies. The SVS's have good sub amps.

 

[Bobby Bass]

Understand you‘re looking for a multi-channel setup but I have experience with Rotel equipment. I have the Rotel 1582 MKII with 200 WPC at 8 ohms with the 1572 MKII preamp. I wanted to upgrade from an AVR to separates for my 2.2 channel music System and I’m very happy with Rotel. It drives my Arendal 1723 towers very well. I have a pair of SVS SB 1000 Pros. I like listening to classic rock, The Who, Rush etc and I rarely go past 40% volume. It can get much louder but I want to keep the hearing that I still have. Excellent dynamics and soundstage, which really depends on the speakers as long as they get the power they need. More than enough power to run for hours without getting hot or going into protection mode. I bought from Crutchfield because I could buy and try for 60 days and return for a small fee if not happy.

 

[ski2xblack]

I think you need to reassess exactly what it is that you want to achieve.

Most of what you describe as wanting points more toward a speaker upgrade, or applying different eq.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don’t think you (and most cases) need an external amp.

But if you want an amp, I think the ATI AT-1800 class AB 200 WPC series is excellent. Comes with 7YR warranty and has among the best reputations for being awesome. Even the lowly ATI 60 WPC distribution amp passed the 1-ohm torture test done by The Audio Critic.

Other brands include Parasound Halo, Anthem, Rotel, McIntosh, NAD, Bryston, Legacy Audio. But absolutely not Emotiva.

 

[MrBoat]

The room is about 12 x14 feet. My problem is not volume level though. Its dynamics, celerity, and fullness of sound. I don't even run my surround sound speakers because I can tell it pulls power away from my bed layer which is already seemingly stretched thin. Thank you for that perspective. I'm going to add 8 panels to my walls to eliminate treatments as a possible contributor. I can even tell that the mid range sounds better with the subs enabled because when the subs are on then the full range towers are crossed over to 60hz and higher. The sub amps take care of the low end with movies. The SVS's have good sub amps.

Did you start out with a predetermined seating arrangement and then just installed the equipment to accommodate that? Have you tried positioning the speakers differently? Many people follow the aesthetic, instead of the acoustic. Sometimes, the dimensions of the room will not allow the ideal listening position to be right where you want it. Seems like at the very least, you will need bass traps with subs in a room that size.

I think you have some work to do before changing out equipment. Speaker positioning trials, etc.

How much furniture and stuff is in this room? Is it carpeted?

 

[Serithin]

Not much room to rearrange speakers. They sound really good when in 3.2 mode. (although I wish they were warmer). What I want to achieve is #1 more dynamic sound. Less flat. And like I said when I turn on my wall surround sound speakers its even more flat sounding. My seating is good and I found that (sweet spot) in the middle of my couch. My speakers are 200w max. For music the speakers are too bright and harsh. EQ fixes this by pulling down the 2-3khz range. It has decent imaging. Yes it is carpeted. I'm about to test some things with 8 large acoustic panels. I also heard to stay away from Emotiva but some people say its good. It does seem to be cheap gear though. Il post the results of the panels. Thanks abunch

 

[Serithin]

Bobby Bass.. What is the voltage output sensitivity on your sound processor or avr to the Rotel? I was looking into that amp for awhile. The only thing that has me question it is the lack of a gain knob and the high Voltage input sensitivity. But maybe those are small things. The Parasound A23+ input sensitivity was a closer match to my AVR as well as its warmth and gain of 29db as well as a gain knob. They are both priced about the same with toroidal transformers. That Rotel looks so badass though

 

[ski2xblack]

Quick question. What are your listening habits? (How loud do you like it?) The reason I ask is because a lot of what you mention may be addressed via loudness compensation eq. Have you tried DEQ on the Marantz? Realize that DEQ isn't perfect, but it's worth a try, as it will warm up the sound.

 

[Serithin]

Mostly movies. I would listen to music more it I had more power and warmth. I use audyssey room correction and I turn off DEQ as well as DVolume. The reference audyssey is an improvement. I don't like the idea of automated DEQ. I can try it but I never thought it would improve my sound. I will give it a try, thank you.

 

[ski2xblack]

DEQ does wierd things to the surround channels, but may work ok for stereo use, particularly if you want a meatier, more dynamic presentation. And it's free to try.

 

[Serithin]

Il set it up on my Preset 1, then switch to off on my preset 2 and listen for any changes. I like it loud sometimes. up to about 75db.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is the 75dB average or peak? I'd think for dynamics it isn't the amp but your speakers/eq also.

 

[isolar8001]

I don't like the idea of automated DEQ. I can try it but I never thought it would improve my sound. I will give it a try, thank you.

A Denon/Marantz running without DEQ sounds like poopoocaca (in my case anyhow)....the reason I ditched my Denon for a Pioneer.
Definitely play with DEQ. I didn't like the idea of electronic trickery either, but they must design them to use it.

Like others are saying, buying a big amp isn't going to get you what you want.

 

[lovinthehd]

Another way to approach eq other than by DEQ might be via the Audyssey editor app where you can customize a house curve to your taste....

 

[MrBoat]

Not much room to rearrange speakers. They sound really good when in 3.2 mode. (although I wish they were warmer). What I want to achieve is #1 more dynamic sound. Less flat. And like I said when I turn on my wall surround sound speakers its even more flat sounding. My seating is good and I found that (sweet spot) in the middle of my couch. My speakers are 200w max. For music the speakers are too bright and harsh. EQ fixes this by pulling down the 2-3khz range. It has decent imaging. Yes it is carpeted. I'm about to test some things with 8 large acoustic panels. I also heard to stay away from Emotiva but some people say its good. It does seem to be cheap gear though. Il post the results of the panels. Thanks abunch

Big window down one side? What's on the opposite? If a solid wall then you will have all kinds of weird things going on. Living rooms can be tough. I put sofas on either side, and one covers a narrower window. We never looked out it anyway because there is really nothing there to look at and the blind was closed 99% of the time. Heavy curtains at the least.

I would try those speakers toed-in, directly at your ears, all triangulated like and hope for the best. You can always turn them back when not in use.

 

[ski2xblack]

@Serithin we may be guilty of putting the cart before the horse with the DEQ digression, in which I'm assuming that you've exhausted all iterations of positioning and placement options as Mr Boat is suggesting, and that the overall calibration is optimized, including the level it's optimized for. Loudness compensation eq, should you find it beneficial, is only for *after* all that is sorted out.

 

[Eppie]

With the heavy curtains, carpeting and two sofas, I don't see that being a very "lively" room. If the right side is a bare wall, panels may help reduce the first reflection on the right side, depending upon how much dampening you are getting from the curtains. While Boat mentioned toeing the speakers in, they look to be that way already from the photos. If the speakers sound too bright, you may need to do the opposite and toe the speakers out. They will sound brightest pointed right at you, but pointing them straight ahead perpendicular to the wall (which is toeing out relative to your seating position) will usually soften the highs. This of course depends upon how wide of a dispersion pattern the speakers have at higher frequencies.

Have to agree with the others though. I would be surprised if it was amp power that you are lacking. Try some of the other suggestions first and if you get a new amp use a retailer with a good return policy.

 

[-Jim-]

Just a thought, how about running REW before doing anything @Serithin ?

I assume you've got a computer and the software is free. Buy a mic and take some base line measurements. The gang here will help you with the analysis. That way you won't be putting out a bag of money unnecessarily and still be guessing what's going on.

Just my 2 Bits.