Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[Dude#1279435]

Bump stocks for military use… hahahahahahaha

Tell me you know absolutely nothing about firearms without telling me you know absolutely nothing about firearms

You're trying to justify bump stocks in the civilian world. That's the problem.

 

[Trell]

Rather than attacking a person can you bring something of substance to the discussion?

And what substance(s) are you bringing?

 

[Dude#1279435]

Appetite for more, but not because gun owners really need it. Bigger, badder, louder. The notion that gun culture isn't the problem. At all. Is bizarre. Fervor of their gun rights to the point of silly. Rifles, shotguns, and what 20 or 30 mag clips for handguns? About all you need. Of course that isn't enough.

Bump stocks for about the 2 handicap people out there. 500k?? Mmkay.

 

[TankTop5]

Appetite for more, but not because gun owners really need it. Bigger, badder, louder. The notion that gun culture isn't the problem. At all. Is bizarre. Fervor of their gun rights to the point of silly. Rifles, shotguns, and what 20 or 30 mag clips for handguns? About all you need. Of course that isn't enough.

Bump stocks for about the 2 handicap people out there. 500k?? Mmkay.

Bump stocks aren’t for handicapped, you’re thinking of a pistol brace.

To your other comment that I’m trying to justify bump stocks you are completely wrong! They are silly and useless but that doesn’t give the ATF the authority to ban them and make people who own or manufacture them criminals, again that’s the job of Congress. The ATF isn’t a regulatory agency, it’s a law enforcement agency.

 

[3db]

As an outsider looking in, I think the whole gun culture in the US is perverse and speaks volumes of the decay of society in the US. Siting constitutional rights is the most bogus excuse that the American gun culture uses to justify this illness. Instead of taking the high road and correcting social issues that plague the US society such as poverty, mental illness, and addicitions, its much easier for the gun crazies to defend their weak "constitutional right" . I'm not taking away from the legitimate gun collectors out there who take the proper precautions and lock up their fire arms up and use them in approved venues such as a gun ranges. Unfortunately, its too easy to obtain firearms in the US for the non legit collectors and or criminals. The worst of it is that this poop makes it up across the Canadian border. One US citizen who was illegally bringing firearms into Canada is finally being tried in a Canadian court of law because of past deportations and repeated offences here in Canada.

 

[TankTop5]

As an outsider looking in, I think the whole gun culture in the US is perverse and speaks volumes of the decay of society in the US. Siting constitutional rights is the most bogus excuse that the American gun culture uses to justify this illness. Instead of taking the high road and correcting social issues that plague the US society such as poverty, mental illness, and addicitions, its much easier for the gun crazies to defend their weak "constitutional right" . I'm not taking away from the legitimate gun collectors out there who take the proper precautions and lock up their fire arms up and use them in approved venues such as a gun ranges. Unfortunately, its too easy to obtain firearms in the US for the non legit collectors and or criminals. The worst of it is that this poop makes it up across the Canadian border. One US citizen who was illegally bringing firearms into Canada is finally being tried in a Canadian court of law because of past deportations and repeated offences here in Canada.

While I concede there is some validity to your points many in the US see the Right to Bear Arms as an essential freedom, I am one of them as are about 100 million others to be conservative. The issue is both sides rely on the argument that boils down to, why won’t the other side just agree with us that “this” is a problem? That point of view and argument will never accomplish anything so it’s time to look to what both sides can agree are issues that need to be addressed like mental health, inner city crime etc… Gun crime in America is a huge problem but suicide is even bigger with domestic violence following closely behind. While mass shootings grab headlines and garner attention they are about 1% of gun deaths in America. We have a morality problem, cultural problem and mental health problem. We have the resources to address these issues but politicians would rather play politics and pander to their base instead of attempting to do anything worthwhile.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Bump stocks aren’t for handicapped, you’re thinking of a pistol brace.

To your other comment that I’m trying to justify bump stocks you are completely wrong! They are silly and useless but that doesn’t give the ATF the authority to ban them and make people who own or manufacture them criminals, again that’s the job of Congress. The ATF isn’t a regulatory agency, it’s a law enforcement agency.

People have a right to bear arms, and they have a right to their stoopid (ie bump stocks).

 

[Dude#1279435]

I'll never forget the time probably 20+ years ago on national news where guy in the south goes to I believe Walmart shows his ID and walks out with a rifle. That's it.

About 20-30 years ago a group of adults like in their 30's or older, not kids mind you, standing in the field and shooting into the edge of the woods. My memory could be foggy on that, but like no targets being shot at. Shooting in the woods for fun. Like a bunch of back wood idiots. Not doing much for the good parts of gun ownership, or for evolution. Dumb on a level that is difficult to match.

 

[TankTop5]

I'll never forget the time probably 20+ years ago on national news where guy in the south goes to I believe Walmart shows his ID and walks out with a rifle. That's it.

About 20-30 years ago a group of adults like in their 30's or older, not kids mind you, standing in the field and shooting into the edge of the woods. My memory could be foggy on that, but like no targets being shot at. Shooting in the woods for fun. Like a bunch of back wood idiots. Not doing much for the good parts of gun ownership, or for evolution. Dumb on a level that is difficult to match.

You’ll never forget when it made national news when American citizens legally purchased firearms? Literally this is what sticks in your head, not the innumerable senseless shootings in bad neighborhoods across America? You can look up endless videos of criminals murdering each other and innocent victims yet someone legally purchasing a firearm or some people having fun shooting in the woods is what bothers you? THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE A RATIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT GUNS!!! You FUCKING embarrass yourself with this drivel.

 

[Dude#1279435]

You’ll never forget when it made national news when American citizens legally purchased firearms? Literally this is what sticks in your head, not the innumerable senseless shootings in bad neighborhoods across America? You can look up endless videos of criminals murdering each other and innocent victims yet someone legally purchasing a firearm or some people having fun shooting in the woods is what bothers you? THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE A RATIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT GUNS!!! You FUCKING embarrass yourself with this drivel.

The idiots randomly shooting into the woods for no reason other than hoots. Yep pretty stupid.

20-30 years you can walk into a Walmart and purchase a rifle without a background check. Even back then I thought wow that's pretty stupid. It's like buying milk.

Examples of dumb. Then gun owners wonder why people want to take away their guns??? Jeez I wonder why. Live examples for the media so they can have a field day with the goofy dumbness of it.

 

[cpp]

Some want to free criminals from the harsh conditions in prison! They sit on a particular side of the political aisle and apparently, don't believe that criminals should face harsh penalties for violent crimes.

How would they be able to pay huge fines?

IF they can't they just still in jail until the courts feel time is served.

 

[TankTop5]

The idiots randomly shooting into the woods for no reason other than hoots. Yep pretty stupid.

20-30 years you can walk into a Walmart and purchase a rifle without a background check. Even back then I thought wow that's pretty stupid. It's like buying milk.

Examples of dumb. Then gun owners wonder why people want to take away their guns??? Jeez I wonder why. Live examples for the media so they can have a field day with the goofy dumbness of it.

Bro you can’t be serious!! This is specifically why nobody on the other side of the gun issue will never take you seriously. You are worried about people legally purchasing firearms and shooting just for fun when there are issues of epic proportions to address. Your issues is with regular people legally enjoying their rights rather than murderous criminals , mentally unstable, suicide etc. what we here is you want to turn regular people into criminals while ignoring actual criminals because you spew the garbage out of your mouth, you are fucking insane!

 

[Dude#1279435]

Bro you can’t be serious!! This is specifically why nobody on the other side of the gun issue will never take you seriously. You are worried about people legally purchasing firearms and shooting just for fun when there are issues of epic proportions to address. Your issues is with regular people legally enjoying their rights rather than murderous criminals , mentally unstable, suicide etc. what we here is you want to turn regular people into criminals while ignoring actual criminals because you spew the garbage out of your mouth, you are fucking insane!

Uh because there weren't background checks back then? That was the point. Kid of legal age plops down his money and ID. Thank you very much. Have a nice day! Thanks for the milk. But ok. I don't care about murder etc even though background checks are a preventive measure.

 

[TankTop5]

Uh because there weren't background checks back then? That was the point. Kid of legal age plops down his money and ID. Thank you very much. Have a nice day! Thanks for the milk. But ok. I don't care about murder etc even though background checks are a preventive measure.

You’re bringing up things that happened over 20 years ago that were perfectly legal and likely contributed zero to actual crime. I should introduce you to my ex wife, the two of you could have a great career is archaeologists digging up the past.

How about we worry about actual causes of crime, mental health, suicide, gangs, and domestic violence. You know, the stuff that’s actually a problem. Never mind, you’d rather worry about some guy 20 years ago, showing his ID and buying a firearm or some hillbillies shooting into the woods because those are problems. I think the title of this forum was, let’s have a rational discussion about gun control, feel free to join THAT conversation

 

[Dude#1279435]

You’re bringing up things that happened over 20 years ago that were perfectly legal and likely contributed zero to actual crime.

Likely contributed to background checks.

 

[TankTop5]

Likely contributed to background checks.

You really need to stop, background checks don’t stop gang members from getting guns or males over the age of 40 from committing suicide with guns they’ve likely owned for decades. I had a step father who went through the background checks, waited 10 days in California then shot himself on day 11. I’m intimately aware of the issues. The fact is you aren’t having an honest conversation and bringing up things that have no bearing on the issues facing America. Mental health would have helped my step dad but background checks and waiting periods had zero effect.

 

[Dude#1279435]

You really need to stop, background checks don’t stop gang members from getting guns or males over the age of 40 from committing suicide with guns they’ve likely owned for decades. I had a step father who went through the background checks, waited 10 days in California then shot himself on day 11. I’m intimately aware of the issues. The fact is you aren’t having an honest conversation and bringing up things that have no bearing on the issues facing America. Mental health would have helped my step dad but background checks and waiting periods had zero effect.

Of course background checks don't stop everything, but at least they might prevent new purchases. I think the idea is to make things a little bit harder to get ahold of vs slapping your money down and and ID. Or I guess we could eliminate BC's, which doesn't make much sense. There's no mandatory treatment for mental health in a free country. But you can regulate certain types of guns and hopefully save a few lives along the way.

 

[cpp]

Of course background checks don't stop everything, but at least they might prevent new purchases. I think the idea is to make things a little bit harder to get ahold of vs slapping your money down and and ID. Or I guess we could eliminate BC's, which doesn't make much sense. There's no mandatory treatment for mental health in a free country. But you can regulate certain types of guns and hopefully save a few lives along the way.

Here's a recent article on a murderer with mental illness. https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2024/01/22/palm-bay-triple-homicide-suspect-suffer-mental-illness-family-says-florida/72312393007/

No word as of yet how the guy got a gun.

 

[highfigh]

I'll never forget the time probably 20+ years ago on national news where guy in the south goes to I believe Walmart shows his ID and walks out with a rifle. That's it.

About 20-30 years ago a group of adults like in their 30's or older, not kids mind you, standing in the field and shooting into the edge of the woods. My memory could be foggy on that, but like no targets being shot at. Shooting in the woods for fun. Like a bunch of back wood idiots. Not doing much for the good parts of gun ownership, or for evolution. Dumb on a level that is difficult to match.

Maybe a shotgun, but not a rifle, unless they ran the background check and he was already in the system. Another possibility is that the WalMart employee let the guy leave without the background check, which is also a crime.

Being on national news doesn't make it fact, either- how many times was that story repeated and altered before it aired?

Unless you were with them, you don't know what they were using as a target- could have been a stump, dead tree.....if alcohol played any part, well, you know.

 

[highfigh]

Uh because there weren't background checks back then? That was the point. Kid of legal age plops down his money and ID. Thank you very much. Have a nice day! Thanks for the milk. But ok. I don't care about murder etc even though background checks are a preventive measure.

Let's look this shyte up before blathering on about things we don't know.

"The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is a background check system in the United States created by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Law) of 1993 to prevent firearm sales to people prohibited under the Act."

National Instant Criminal Background Check System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Kid of legal age plops down his money and ID."- Here ya go.....looked it up for you. You ought to try searching online- all of the cool kids are doing it.

Minimum Age for Gun Sales and Transfers* | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Minimum Age for Gun Sales and Transfers* Unlicensed Persons Handguns: Under federal law, unlicensed persons may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition to any person the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18, except under...

www.atf.gov

You're barking up the wrong tree WRT murders and gun sales- they're sold privately far more than through dealers.