I need an a/b switch for sort of a unique setup ... maybe

[itschris]

I'm working towards integrating a clean two channel solution into my system. I'm about to order a HiFi Rose streamer. I have two free channels on my separate amp that I can run XLR to from the HiFi Rose. However, I need to be able to switch the speakers between the two channel and HT setups. While I think this should be easy and straightforward, it's not so much so. Most switches have one input and two outputs for two sets of speakers. My need is in reverse. The second obstacle is finding a switch to handle the 200w/channel from the amp.

I played around with my buddy's EverSolo and I simply have zero confidence that running analog through my receiver into bypass/pure mode is in fact that, because when i did that vs. running direct and just swapping my speaker cables for a clean path completely bypassing the receiver, it was virtually night and day.

My thought to maintain the cleanest signal path would be to have the speaker cables from the R/L HT side and the speaker cables from R/L of the other two free channels connect to the A/B switch and have a set of speaker cables then run to my speakers so I could select the "input" rather than the output. I just can't seem to get past the 100w limitation of most switches, however. I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm working towards integrating a clean two channel solution into my system. I'm about to order a HiFi Rose streamer. I have two free channels on my separate amp that I can run XLR to from the HiFi Rose. However, I need to be able to switch the speakers between the two channel and HT setups. While I think this should be easy and straightforward, it's not so much so. Most switches have one input and two outputs for two sets of speakers. My need is in reverse. The second obstacle is finding a switch to handle the 200w/channel from the amp.

I played around with my buddy's EverSolo and I simply have zero confidence that running analog through my receiver into bypass/pure mode is in fact that, because when i did that vs. running direct and just swapping my speaker cables for a clean path completely bypassing the receiver, it was virtually night and day.

My thought to maintain the cleanest signal path would be to have the speaker cables from the R/L HT side and the speaker cables from R/L of the other two free channels connect to the A/B switch and have a set of speaker cables then run to my speakers so I could select the "input" rather than the output. I just can't seem to get past the 100w limitation of most switches, however. I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

That is a lot of power for a speaker switch and I think you will burn it out. It will also create a lot of back EMF if you switch it at power.

Some of those Ever Solo amps look pretty beefy.

I am told here again and again that receiver amps are fine. I have always doubted that, and you are giving my suspicions some confirmation.

I would never ever use a receiver to power my speakers and that is one of many reasons I don't own one

What I would do is get a two channel power up and connect it to the preouts of your receiver, and when you want two channel just set the receiver to stereo and you can decide whether you want to use the sub, which I would recommend.

 

[adk highlander]

I'm working towards integrating a clean two channel solution into my system. I'm about to order a HiFi Rose streamer. I have two free channels on my separate amp that I can run XLR to from the HiFi Rose. However, I need to be able to switch the speakers between the two channel and HT setups. While I think this should be easy and straightforward, it's not so much so. Most switches have one input and two outputs for two sets of speakers. My need is in reverse. The second obstacle is finding a switch to handle the 200w/channel from the amp.

I played around with my buddy's EverSolo and I simply have zero confidence that running analog through my receiver into bypass/pure mode is in fact that, because when i did that vs. running direct and just swapping my speaker cables for a clean path completely bypassing the receiver, it was virtually night and day.

My thought to maintain the cleanest signal path would be to have the speaker cables from the R/L HT side and the speaker cables from R/L of the other two free channels connect to the A/B switch and have a set of speaker cables then run to my speakers so I could select the "input" rather than the output. I just can't seem to get past the 100w limitation of most switches, however. I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

Dumb question. Why not use XLR for the 2 channel and rca for HT. Then use the toggle on the back of the amp to swap them out? Maybe I am misunderstanding.

 

[itschris]

Okay thanks but one, I'm not using my receiver for power. Two, I'm using just one set of speakers and there is not a clean path going through my receiver. That part is obvious by my testing as I stated. I don't need another amp. I have two free channels already. I need a way to switch the speakers over from front R/L which is my HT setup and the rear R/L which is free and which I have the streamer hooked up to.

 

[itschris]

Dumb question. Why not use XLR for the 2 channel and rca for HT. Then use the toggle on the back of the amp to swap them out? Maybe I am misunderstanding.

I need two different paths to the same set of speakers... that I can switch in between.
Maybe this will help:

 

[adk highlander]

I need two different paths to the same set of speakers... that I can switch in between.
Maybe this will help:
View attachment 68055

Ahh. So does the sunfire have toggles to switch between xlr and rca? If so what I am saying will work as you use the rca going to l/r from the onkyo and the xlr from the rose. Then you switch the toggles on the back of the amp when switching devices you want to use. I did this for a short time with one of my ATI amps so I know it works.

 

[itschris]

Ahh. So does the sunfire have toggles to switch between xlr and rca? If so what I am saying will work as you use the rca going to l/r from the onkyo and the xlr from the rose. Then you switch the toggles on the back of the amp when switching devices you want to use. I did this for a short time with one of my ATI amps so I know it works.

Unfortunately no... no toggles. That would certainly be a no-brainer. I didn't even know that existed. Damn!

 

[itschris]

I wonder if the Sunfire would recognize which inputs are being used? I mean if I have the receiver off which would be plugged into the RCA's, would it then only recognize the XLR connections from the ROSE if powered that up? I guess "toggle" with out a toggle?

 

[adk highlander]

I wonder if the Sunfire would recognize which inputs are being used? I mean if I have the receiver off which would be plugged into the RCA's, would it then only recognize the XLR connections from the ROSE if powered that up? I guess "toggle" with out a toggle?

That is true. I was scared to even suggest anything where both could be live. I found this on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/SOLUPEAK-P2-Amplifier-Switcher-Loudspeaker/dp/B093GSS8P7 which look like what you need. Just won't comment on quality.

 

[itschris]

I was actually looking at that today. I didn’t see an amp max listed. Some of the other ones they sell seem to have that 100w max. It does say “high current” so maybe.

 

[TLS Guy]

I was actually looking at that today. I didn’t see an amp max listed. Some of the other ones they sell seem to have that 100w max. It does say “high current” so maybe.

It is a really, really bad idea to switch power amps between one set of speakers. You usually end up connecting the outputs of both amps together and blowing up the whole works.
I can't believe the preamp section of that Onkyo is that abysmal. If it is you should get rid of it. My Marantz pre pros measure perfectly and I find it hard to believe even an Onkyo is adulterating the voltage amp section. I bet you have some Eq engaged you don't realize you have.

On straight stereo the preputs of the Onkyo should not be causing an audible problem, unless it is defective.

 

[itschris]

I don’t know about “even” an Onkyo. It’s a $3k receiver and does very well for what I bought it for. I just think it’s not adept at 2 channel like a lot of units. I’ve had Pioneer Elite and Dennon and I’d say there’s still a compromise. I’d prefer not to run a $5k streamer through a receiver. At that level I’d prefer a clean path. I hope you can appreciate that desire even if you think it’s unnecessary. Also, I’m not using two amps. It’s one amp… just different channels of the same amp

 

[lovinthehd]

You have a two or four channel amp? Why the avr wouldn't be sufficient for two ch, don't know. 2ch isn't very challenging to begin with. let alone a streamer being worth $5k. I'd also simply use a power amp on the avr. Maybe simply setup two different systems if 2ch is so fussy.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don’t know about “even” an Onkyo. It’s a $3k receiver and does very well for what I bought it for. I just think it’s not adept at 2 channel like a lot of units. I’ve had Pioneer Elite and Dennon and I’d say there’s still a compromise. I’d prefer not to run a $5k streamer through a receiver. At that level I’d prefer a clean path. I hope you can appreciate that desire even if you think it’s unnecessary. Also, I’m not using two amps. It’s one amp… just different channels of the same amp

Look, a voltage preamp stage is simple. I could draw an analog preamp stage on scrap paper and it would be fine. My BS alarms are on high with your claims. Sounds like an episode of audiophool contagion to me. Unless the designers worked hard to ruin it, that Onkyo preamp sage IS a clean path.

 

[itschris]

Look, a voltage preamp stage is simple. I could draw an analog preamp stage on scrap paper and it would be fine. My BS alarms are on high with your claims. Sounds like an episode of audiophool contagion to me. Unless the designers worked hard to ruin it, that Onkyo preamp sage IS a clean path.

You and I have had fundamental disagreements on things going back years. That's fine. I would prefer not to run my streamer through the RZ70. Period. I will if I have to... but I'd prefer not to. That being said... I've always respected your bend on things.

I went this whole a/b speaker switch because I was thinking about the preamp with HT bypass but didn't want to go through that expense and complication. I feel a speaker switch is out. What about an RCA switch? Does that run into the same concerns with power? If I run the L/R RCAs from the RZ70 to an RCA switch... and run the RCAs (forget XLR) from the HiFi Rose to the switch... then run RCA out to the Sunfire R/L... will that create any unforeseen challenges?

 

[itschris]

This looks like a potential alternative:

 

[TLS Guy]

You and I have had fundamental disagreements on things going back years. That's fine. I would prefer not to run my streamer through the RZ70. Period. I will if I have to... but I'd prefer not to. That being said... I've always respected your bend on things.

I went this whole a/b speaker switch because I was thinking about the preamp with HT bypass but didn't want to go through that expense and complication. I fell a speaker switch is out. What about an RCA switch? Does that run into the same concerns with power? If I run the L/R RCAs from the RZ70 to an RCA switch... and run the RCAs (forget XLR) from the HiFi Rose to the switch... then run RCA out to the Sunfire R/L... will create any unforeseen challenges?

You won't do any damage, but you might get a really good hum for your pains. The more of a 'bird's nest' you make of it they more you invite these sort of issues.

I do find it hard to fathom that your Onkyo has a voltage amp section way worse than my AVPs. Measurements actually count for something, superstitions do not.

 

[highfigh]

It is a really, really bad idea to switch power amps between one set of speakers. You usually end up connecting the outputs of both amps together and blowing up the whole works.
I can't believe the preamp section of that Onkyo is that abysmal. If it is you should get rid of it. My Marantz pre pros measure perfectly and I find it hard to believe even an Onkyo is adulterating the voltage amp section. I bet you have some Eq engaged you don't realize you have.

On straight stereo the preputs of the Onkyo should not be causing an audible problem, unless it is defective.

Using break before make switching is the only way to do this and only if there's no possibility of connecting the outputs in the process.

Power handling is a big reason I would avoid anything on the market for this, although I have used Niles switchers and they work fine. The problem is that Niles was sold and the morons at the top don't know why Niles products were needed and why those of us in the custom integration industry are so PO'd that we can't get them.

Bean counters like these need to be thrown into a volcano.

 

[Trebdp83]

I'm working towards integrating a clean two channel solution into my system. I'm about to order a HiFi Rose streamer. I have two free channels on my separate amp that I can run XLR to from the HiFi Rose. However, I need to be able to switch the speakers between the two channel and HT setups. While I think this should be easy and straightforward, it's not so much so. Most switches have one input and two outputs for two sets of speakers. My need is in reverse. The second obstacle is finding a switch to handle the 200w/channel from the amp.

I played around with my buddy's EverSolo and I simply have zero confidence that running analog through my receiver into bypass/pure mode is in fact that, because when i did that vs. running direct and just swapping my speaker cables for a clean path completely bypassing the receiver, it was virtually night and day.

My thought to maintain the cleanest signal path would be to have the speaker cables from the R/L HT side and the speaker cables from R/L of the other two free channels connect to the A/B switch and have a set of speaker cables then run to my speakers so I could select the "input" rather than the output. I just can't seem to get past the 100w limitation of most switches, however. I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

Yikes, what a mess. Model numbers of every component would be nice. When connecting streamer to receiver, was streamer audio output set to “Fixed?” Was a digital connection to the receiver used to compare to the streamer’s direct connection to the amp? What is being streamed here? Music service? Media server?

 

[itschris]

Yikes, what a mess. Model numbers of every component would be nice. When connecting streamer to receiver, was streamer audio output set to “Fixed?” Was a digital connection to the receiver used to compare to the streamer’s direct connection to the amp? What is being streamed here? Music service? Media server?

I don't really see this as a mess. I'm just wanting to run the new HiFi Rose direct as possible... with the ultimate goal of bypassing the Onkyo RZ70 if possible. The only way to do that is either a Preamp with HT bypass, a speaker switch (no-go) or an RCA switch... (probably a no-go)