SVS 3000 In-Wall Subwoofer Review

[Matthew J Poes]

Thanks for an extensive review, Matt.
To me, running four on-wall dual-10" subs with many of the same design limitations (minimal cabinet volume, high Fs, limited deep bass output), from Artcoustic around 2010, it's interesting how close in design thinking these products are when considering the time-gap. Biggest difference is DSP and more efficient and powerful amp, both things I've solved externally rather than through a boxed solution.

For me personally, I ended up removing a driver from each enclosure. The chosen Peerless woofers simply cannot reach any meaningful excursion in the given volume within their power handling.
Four drivers in four enclosures give me more than 3dB more output for the same power due to being able to better utilize the mechanical properties of the individual driver.

All of this to say, I'm kinda curious what led SVS to decide a dual-driver setup was their best course of action. Sure, the drivers are probably better suited to the enclosure than what I'm working with, but it seems Qtc and Fs are much the same, as is the CEA burst numbers, being close to validating what I've observed with my subs in my room re. deep bass.

I'd love for you to compare this 3000 in-wall to the Next Level Acoustics in-wall which uses the SB Acoustics shallow-mount subwoofer drivers. Those are specifically made for small enclosures but available stand-alone.

Best regards

The SVS performance is near textbook for what it is. It has about as much output as you would predict from a model based on its power and displacement. With that being said, I expect the SB driver to perform a bit worse. It has less displacement.

Next has nowhere near as sophisticated of an amplifier/dsp solution and that is critical to the performance of a sub like this. A lot of the value is in the amp/dsp. I actually expect this to be better than the next sub. Now if they want to send me a sub to review, I am happy to test it and be proven wrong.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

At least the spec page is honest. 107 dB at 32 Hz, 1/8th space lines up with the CEA-2010 2M RMS testing seen here.

I do find the marketing a bit hyperbolic. "No compromise", but you need 4 of them to hit reference at 30 Hz. That seems like an expensive No-compromise to me

In its defense. It makes the least compromised of its packaging. That was the biggest delay in getting this review out. I was initially really disappointed in the performance. I had read other people claiming to use it as their main home theater subwoofer and finding it rewarding. I eventually re-evaluated my expectations against what it was. If you get past the over hyped marketing and over the top reviews, you realize that it’s a really good option for a difficult product type. Lots of integrators need retrofit subwoofers that don’t totally suck. Most totally suck. This one doesn’t totally suck. It will easily be flat to and below 20hz in most residential rooms it would go into. It plays loud in the midbass, not the deep bass, but with boundary and room gain, you will probably find it fine for casual listening.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I think all companies should offer to sell just the non-powered subwoofers (whether in-room or in-wall) WITHOUT having to buy their amplifiers.

In this case, the SVS IW sub could cost $800 each and the amp could cost $1200 as an option.

This way, people could use their own amps that they already have or choose less expensive alternatives like the Crown amps.

For example, for my next HT, I would get five dual-12” In-wall subs and continue to use my cool ATI fully balanced amps.

That’s actually not a good idea. You’re dismissing the value and importance of the DSP. Without the matching amplifier, this subwoofer would suck. The DSP is critical to its performance. Not just its response shaping but the protection and limiting.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

It’s kind of insulting that svs is asking 3k for the dual version of this. Reading the product page is like a def tech ad, or Bose ad. There is obviously a market for architectural speakers, but this is stupid. Many people think 800 bucks for an RSL 12s is too rich, and that thing is actually bada$$.
That said, I do appreciate the time and effort put into the review by Matt.

You have no idea what went into this. I retested it multiple times.

so do keep in mind that in wall subwoofers have additional requirements and certifications that are required. You can’t put anything you want in your walls. Those requirements make these products much more expensive. Which is unfortunate. I would also guess that SVS sells a lot less of these than other subs and so there is less benefit from volume. Also consider the amplifier. While the guts repackage from a plate amp, it’s in a rack mount chassis. That alone is adding substantial cost. Some of the OEMs I work with charge around $300-$400 more to go from a plate amp to a rack enclosure.

 

[Aerial Acoustic Guy]

The SVS performance is near textbook for what it is. It has about as much output as you would predict from a model based on its power and displacement. With that being said, I expect the SB driver to perform a bit worse. It has less displacement.

Next has nowhere near as sophisticated of an amplifier/dsp solution and that is critical to the performance of a sub like this. A lot of the value is in the amp/dsp. I actually expect this to be better than the next sub. Now if they want to send me a sub to review, I am happy to test it and be proven wrong.

Hi Matthew, I would be very curious about your thoughts on the Dali phantom iw sub s-100. It uses a dedicated DSP amplifier and has +/- 18mm excursion, with a Purifi surrounds. Thanks in advance.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That’s actually not a good idea. You’re dismissing the value and importance of the DSP. Without the matching amplifier, this subwoofer would suck. The DSP is critical to its performance. Not just its response shaping but the protection and limiting.

Matt, that might be true for a total newbie, but not for people who have been doing this for 30 years.

I am using the PEQ in the AVP/AVR for the subs.

I’ve been doing this for about 30 years, and so have others. It’s pretty easy (once you have some experience just like all things).

A few months ago I gave it try - against my better judgment. I tried two Perlisten 15” subs because some people said the exact same thing as you did - the “importance of matching the amp/DSP to the subs”. Saying no way that I could do better than the pre-programmed DSP modes in the sub.

So I tried all the pre-programmed DSP modes on these subs. Turned off all my other passive subs. Turned off bass EQ in the AVP. Just used the pre-programmed DSP modes in these powered subs.

Well guess what? The Perlisten subs sucked. No matter which DSP modes I used on the subs, I couldn’t get them to sound as good as my passive subs. Once again I listened to others against my better judgment and once again I was disappointed. I’m not going to waste my time explaining why the sound of the Perlisten subs sucked. When you are so used to hearing great bass and then that bass is no longer there, you know.

On top of that, a friend of mine also bought the Perlisten subs, and both of his sub amps died after a few months. So much for matching subs to amps. No thanks, I’ll match my own subs and amps.

I agree 100% that Sub/bass EQ is important for great sound, but the EQ can easily be done by the AVP, not the sub amp.

My first sub was an NHT passive sub that came with an 80 Watt external amp with no EQ/DSP. Just used the EQ in the AVR. It sounded awesome. Punchy impactful bass for my music. Loved it. Also used Funk Audio passive subs. Now all RBH and Velodyne passive subs. I have never gotten better bass from any powered subs with built-in amps/DSP than from all my passive subs.

Bottom line, people can choose to pay for these so-called “matching” amps if they want. Others who have been doing this for 30 years will likely want to use their own amps. Either way, I’m just giving my opinion based on my many years of experience in using passive subs.

Going back to the SVS. It’s great the amp is external, as it should be. But they should offer to sell both items separately. There’s no harm to consumers for having the option of being able to buy them separately, is there?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Matt, that might be true for a total newbie, but not for people who have been doing this for 30 years.

I am using the PEQ in the AVP/AVR for the subs.

I’ve been doing this for about 30 years, and so have others. It’s pretty easy (once you have some experience just like all things).

A few months ago I gave it try - against my better judgment. I tried two Perlisten 15” subs because some people said the exact same thing as you did - the “importance of matching the amp/DSP to the subs”. Saying no way that I could do better than the pre-programmed DSP modes in the sub.

So I tried all the pre-programmed DSP modes on these subs. Turned off all my other passive subs. Turned off bass EQ in the AVP. Just used the pre-programmed DSP modes in these powered subs.

Well guess what? The Perlisten subs sucked. No matter which DSP modes I used on the subs, I couldn’t get them to sound as good as my passive subs. Once again I listened to others against my better judgment and once again I was disappointed. I’m not going to waste my time explaining why the sound of the Perlisten subs sucked. When you are so used to hearing great bass and then that bass is no longer there, you know.

On top of that, a friend of mine also bought the Perlisten subs, and both of his sub amps died after a few months. So much for matching subs to amps. No thanks, I’ll match my own subs and amps.

I agree 100% that Sub/bass EQ is important for great sound, but the EQ can easily be done by the AVP, not the sub amp.

My first sub was an NHT passive sub that came with an 80 Watt external amp with no EQ/DSP. Just used the EQ in the AVR. It sounded awesome. Punchy impactful bass for my music. Loved it. Also used Funk Audio passive subs. Now all RBH and Velodyne passive subs. I have never gotten better bass from any powered subs with built-in amps/DSP than from all my passive subs.

Bottom line, people can choose to pay for these so-called “matching” amps if they want. Others who have been doing this for 30 years will likely want to use their own amps. Either way, I’m just giving my opinion based on my many years of experience in using passive subs.

Going back to the SVS. It’s great the amp is external, as it should be. But they should offer to sell both items separately. There’s no harm to consumers for having the option of being able to buy them separately, is there?

I don’t think you are understanding the issue. Even with 30 years of experience, are you telling me you know how to setup multi band limiters? Or can counter the massive rolloff at 70hz to flatten the response down to 20hz while not allowing it to distort horribly? I really doubt it.

Very few amps that DIYers have even have multi and limiting capabilities at all. And I have not seen evidence many know how to properly shape the response of a sub. These specialized products are not like typical sealed box subs with a naturally flat and extended response. The Q is too high and the box too small. You have to counter the behavior. I would venture a guess the majority of folks would either think the sub has no bass or they would mistakenly compensate improperly and fry the drivers.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Hi Matthew, I would be very curious about your thoughts on the Dali phantom iw sub s-100. It uses a dedicated DSP amplifier and has +/- 18mm excursion, with a Purifi surrounds. Thanks in advance.

I saw that at CEDIA. I would be curious to test it. It looks decent for what it is. It’s not going to defy physics. But it doesn’t need to in order to be useful.

 

[Verdinut]

I don’t think you are understanding the issue. Even with 30 years of experience, are you telling me you know how to setup multi band limiters? Or can counter the massive rolloff at 70hz to flatten the response down to 20hz while not allowing it to distort horribly? I really doubt it.

Very few amps that DIYers have even have multi and limiting capabilities at all. And I have not seen evidence many know how to properly shape the response of a sub. These specialized products are not like typical sealed box subs with a naturally flat and extended response. The Q is too high and the box too small. You have to counter the behavior. I would venture a guess the majority of folks would either think the sub has no bass or they would mistakenly compensate improperly and fry the drivers.

Would you give examples of some typical sealed box subs with a naturally flat and extended response?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don’t think you are understanding the issue. Even with 30 years of experience, are you telling me you know how to setup multi band limiters? Or can counter the massive rolloff at 70hz to flatten the response down to 20hz while not allowing it to distort horribly? I really doubt it.

Very few amps that DIYers have even have multi and limiting capabilities at all. And I have not seen evidence many know how to properly shape the response of a sub. These specialized products are not like typical sealed box subs with a naturally flat and extended response. The Q is too high and the box too small. You have to counter the behavior. I would venture a guess the majority of folks would either think the sub has no bass or they would mistakenly compensate improperly and fry the drivers.

Who cares about flattening the bass from 70Hz to 20Hz if it doesn’t SOUND GOOD SUBJECTIVELY. I don’t want a flatten bass. I want +3dB bass in the 20-100Hz region.

I guess you missed the part where I used the preset EQ of the PerListen subs and the sound sucked compared to my passive subs. Yeah, it sounded like the bass was FLAT.

If that is what a flatten and less distorted bass sounds like, I don’t want any part of it.

And I don’t care about limiters. Never used it over 30 years, never needed it.