Marantz AV10 calibrated by Audyssey lacks bass

[Paul McNeil]

I've now have a Marantz AV10 to replace an AV8802A. After running the Audyssey calibration, the sound was detailed but lacking in body, ok bass. So I fired up REW and the data is attached. I needed to increase the bass output (from 3 Klipcsh THX 100s stacked in one corner, and two SVS 13 Ultra Cylinders in the other) from the original Audyssey calibration (green trace) by ~12 dB to get a flat response (red trace).

May I say, wow Audyssey, I don't know if I trust you.

Anyway, I did this by adjusting the A10 output via 'Speaker/Level'. Is this the best way to do this? For example, should I have adjusted subwoofer amplifier levels up, instead?

 

[PENG]

I've now have a Marantz AV10 to replace an AV8802A. After running the Audyssey calibration, the sound was detailed but lacking in body, ok bass. So I fired up REW and the data is attached. I needed to increase the bass output (from 3 Klipcsh THX 100s stacked in one corner, and two SVS 13 Ultra Cylinders in the other) from the original Audyssey calibration (green trace) by ~12 dB to get a flat response (red trace).

May I say, wow Audyssey, I don't know if I trust you.

Anyway, I did this by adjusting the A10 output via 'Speaker/Level'. Is this the best way to do this? For example, should I have adjusted subwoofer amplifier levels up, instead?

I am not sure if there is really a "best way". From my own experience, it depends on one's requirements. I want to see pretty graphs, so after years of simply bumping up the subout trim levels by a few dB, I started to tweak the target curve using the $20 Editor app with the freeware Ratbuddyssy and was able to achieve +/- 1 to 1.5 dB at 1/12 smoothing and +/- 1.5 to 2 dB with no smoothing, from 20-120 Hz, or even up to 200 Hz if I ignore a couple narrow sharp dips that won't be audible anyway.

If interested, I created a users thread on this but sorry there are 27 pages so you would have scan through it:

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

The $200 app is so good that there is no need to use it with Ratbuddyssey. If you have that, then there is no point reading the MultEQ Editor app users thread, and you can quickly get a very flat curve and then starting playing with some bass tilt versions if you prefer more deep bass.

 

[Paul McNeil]

I am not sure if there is really a "best way". From my own experience, it depends on one's requirements. I want to see pretty graphs, so after years of simply bumping up the subout trim levels by a few dB, I started to tweak the target curve using the $20 Editor app with the freeware Ratbuddyssy and was able to achieve +/- 1 to 1.5 dB at 1/12 smoothing and +/- 1.5 to 2 dB with no smoothing, from 20-120 Hz, or even up to 200 Hz if I ignore a couple narrow sharp dips that won't be audible anyway.

If interested, I created a users thread on this but sorry there are 27 pages so you would have scan through it:

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

Thanks for that Peng. But there must be a better way, that's what we are all here for.

I did leave out the information that I did use the phone Audy Editor app for the calibration (but not the freeware you mentioned). Those are next steps, thanks.

But isn't it surprising that Andy on the AV10 would be so off, in its bass calibration?

 

[PENG]

Thanks for that Peng. But there must be a better way, that's what we are all here for.

I did leave out the information that I did use the phone Audy Editor app for the calibration (but not the freeware you mentioned). Those are next steps, thanks.

But isn't it surprising that Andy on the AV10 would be so off, in its bass calibration?

Yes there are better ways, my point is about "best", that, to me is too tall an order especially for topics related to audio RC software.

I can say that adjusting the speaker level is a better way than adjusting the subwoofer amp's level, as that should be adjusted once during calibration when Audyssey will suggest setting it for the green zone. I found that if you do adjust for the green, Audyssey may have to bump things up too much and imo it is better to aim for it to be a little above the green limit, landing on the lower end of the red zone instead.

Your results does look bad, did you follow the instructions to the letter? I won't be surprise if you end up with a few dB lower in the deep bass, but for it to be down 10 dB from below 50 Hz indicates there is something wrong.

It is really important to follow instructions to the letter, including the way the SVS subs are set up, such as disabling any PEQs, filters etc., and volume at about 9:30 to 10:30 could be a good starting point, but then it also depends on the specs of your speakers and the distances as well. The first couple pages in the thread I linked may have some information you can reference to.

The AV10 is such a great preamp processor, so in my opinion it is worth acquiring the Dirac licenses or the MultEQ X. If you don't want to spend that much to get both, well then the $20 app+Ratbuddsey can get you there too but then it could be very time consuming. If you want to go that way, I am willing to help as much as I can, time permitting obviously. With Dirac, you should be able to get very decent recent with minor tweaking, say will get to what you may find acceptable within a few hours.

I think there is another 3rd party UI you can buy for a few dollars ($10-$20, not really sure), it basically is a spreadsheet (such as Excel) based, so a little easier to use than Ratbuddyssey.

 

[Paul McNeil]

I did follow the instructions to the letter but have not repeated the procedure. Of course, I am thinking about upgrading to Dirac or MultiEQ X but won't if I don't have to. Is the corrected curve (from the original post) defective?

I agree that the AV10 is a great processor, since you mentioned the topic!

 

[lovinthehd]

Why are your subs in the two corners particularly? What did you do to setup the subs prior to running Audyssey?

 

[Paul McNeil]

Why are your subs in the two corners particularly? What did you do to setup the subs prior to running Audyssey?

They are there because that's the only place acceptable. I used Audyssey to adjust the volumes (on each of the three Klipsch, and then as 'one' sub the SVS). And, just to be clear, NOW my bass response is the best I've ever heard, for what it's worth. Does the REW not reflect that?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Where did audyssey set the subwoofer trim? My guess is that it bottomed out at -12 as the subwoofer amp levels were too high.

 

[lovinthehd]

They are there because that's the only place acceptable. I used Audyssey to adjust the volumes (on each of the three Klipsch, and then as 'one' sub the SVS). And, just to be clear, NOW my bass response is the best I've ever heard, for what it's worth. Does the REW not reflect that?

Just curious how you went about it, still not quite clear on how you set the level there. Your response looks good now but wondering why you had to boost level so much.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Where did audyssey set the subwoofer trim? My guess is that it bottomed out at -12 as the subwoofer amp levels were too high.

Nope, I adjusted the subs middle low level in the setup (green zone). The trim was initially at -6 (klipsch) and -8 (SVS). The adjusted values are now -3 (all three Klipsch) and 0.0 SVS (I adjusted these up more, given their greater capacity).

 

[Paul McNeil]

Just curious how you went about it, still not quite clear on how you set the level there. Your response looks good now but wondering why you had to boost level so much.

Yeah, I wonder too, why I had to re-adjust the bass output upwards, to get a quantitatively and subjectively (YES!) better curve (red one).

 

[PENG]

I did follow the instructions to the letter but have not repeated the procedure. Of course, I am thinking about upgrading to Dirac or MultiEQ X but won't if I don't have to. Is the corrected curve (from the original post) defective?

Not defective but it is unusal for two PC13U to behave like that. How was it before you replace whatever you have with the AV10?

 

[Paul McNeil]

but it is unusal for two PC13U to behave like that

Hmm, what exactly do mean? (I'm an amateur but this is a very large room, if that matters)

 

[lovinthehd]

How large a room? Seating is where?

What sub trim level was set during the Audyssey run?

Sometimes simply re-running Audyssey isn't a bad way to go....

 

[lovinthehd]

Also, why the Klipsch subs at all instead of just the two SVS?

 

[Paul McNeil]

How large a room? Seating is where?

20' x 40' x 15'

 

[PENG]

Hmm, what exactly do mean? (I'm an amateur but this is a very large room, if that matters)

Two PC13U, in your 40x20' room should give you a much flatter curve between 15 to 150 Hz, so I expect your green curve to be much flatter than it is. Your green curves looks like Audyssey put a -8 to -10 dB low shelf filter to the range below 50 Hz.

I have been using RC for a long time and must have run Audyssey more than 100 times, never have bass attenuated like that, the only time I experienced something similar was when I first switched to Anthem ARC Genesis.

I would suggest you re-run Audyssey to see if the same bass trough beliw 50 Hz is repeatable.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Yeah, it did put that shelf there, for sure! I can and will rerun at some point though at the moment it's great, as I said before. Just an unexpected need to correct...

 

[PENG]

Yeah, it did put that shelf there, for sure! I can and will rerun at some point though at the moment it's great, as I said before. Just an unexpected need to correct...

You obviously got some bass back using the red curve, that if I understood correctly, you bumped up the subwoofer levels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They are there because that's the only place acceptable.

That’s probably like 90% of all people. Not much choices for most people. But putting the subs in the front 2 corners is not a bad choice either.