isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Sometimes I get a little tired of bad talk about JB.
Sure, we can criticize any president...but is/was Joe as bad as the GOP believe ?
Just the facts ma'am.

 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I am generally pretty happy with Biden's administration. There are a few things I wish he did better, like he should have supported the rail worker's union better when they threatened to strike. I also wished he pushed back more on Israel's brutal response in Gaza. Some of the stuff he gets criticized for is the fault of Republican opposition, not his own administration. I think he had greater ambitions in coming to power but is stuck just trying to hold everything together with duct tape in the face of a major political force that wants to burn civil society to the ground.
 
H

Hobbit

Senior Audioholic
Politics now feel like we've taken attack ads and negative campaigning to an extreme level. Moreover, news isn't about news, it's about ratings. Thus, if your Fox you'll rarely say JB did anything good. When they do, they quickly mention it and morph it into something bad about him that has absolutely nothing to with the original story. They do it so smoothly people don't even notice or remember the good part. But it seems as a whole we've become stupid enough to fall for this sh!t. The other day someone came to my door claiming to be doing a "neutral" poll and started asking questions. They started out asking "questions" most of us would agree with regardless of affiliation. Then they slowly morphed it into something else. It really didn't take long before I realized who she was supporting... It was, however, cleverly worded to lead a non supporter towards being a supporter if you weren't paying attention.

So, of course, Joe isn't as bad as the GOP make him out to be. I'm sure history will be much kinder to him than to many GOP presidents.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Politics now feel like we've taken attack ads and negative campaigning to an extreme level. Moreover, news isn't about news, it's about ratings. Thus, if your Fox you'll rarely say JB did anything good. When they do, they quickly mention it and morph it into something bad about him that has absolutely nothing to with the original story. They do it so smoothly people don't even notice or remember the good part. But it seems as a whole we've become stupid enough to fall for this sh!t. The other day someone came to my door claiming to be doing a "neutral" poll and started asking questions. They started out asking "questions" most of us would agree with regardless of affiliation. Then they slowly morphed it into something else. It really didn't take long before I realized who she was supporting... It was, however, cleverly worded to lead a non supporter towards being a supporter if you weren't paying attention.

So, of course, Joe isn't as bad as the GOP make him out to be. I'm sure history will be much kinder to him than to many GOP presidents.
Especially Donald J.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Serious question.
IF trump was never president, or in politics at all. Would you guys still think Biden was a good president?
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Mediocre at best. But Trump has set a low standard for all new presidents.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Mediocre at best. But Trump has set a low standard for all new presidents.
That may be true. But that’s why I asked. Everyone is defending Biden against trump. But my question is if for example, trump never existed, would people still defend him? Trump is a bonehead to say the least, but what about Joe on his own, without comparing him to trump.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You can't take maga/drumphy out of the equation, tho.....they're part of it.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
You can't take maga/drumphy out of the equation, tho.....they're part of it.
Sure I can. Based solely on joes presidency.

Why can’t I remove trump from the equation. I’m just wondering if people really support joe Biden and the job he’s done, or if it’s nothing more than “at least he’s not trump” or something to that effect.
I can easily separate the two of them. How I feel about either one of them has nothing to do with the other.
 
Last edited:
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Sure I can. Based solely on joes presidency.

Why can’t I remove trump from the equation. I’m just wondering if people really support joe Biden and the job he’s done, or if it’s nothing more than “at least he’s not trump” or something to that effect.
You can imagine what you want. It wouldn't be the same thing if drumphy/maga weren't around. Possibly it wouldn't even be a Biden presidency at this point. I think he's doing fine under the circumstances, and I thought the same for Obama. If/when the republicans extract themselves from the gutter they joined drumphy in, we'll see....
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Serious question.
IF trump was never president, or in politics at all. Would you guys still think Biden was a good president?
I was planning on staying out of this. :confused:

I won't pretend that he will go down as all time great.

Is he a good president? Yes.

Do I like him? No.

Would I vote for him a second time if it meant preventing Trump from being President? Yes.

Would I vote for him if it meant a vote for Harris as President? Yes

At the end of the day, he is boring, his policies have led to a stronger economy (Honestly!) than we have seen since Obama, and he is doing his best to AVOID getting us into another war.

Yes, Trump had Covid and its economic impact on his watch. He didn't cause it, but his policy DID make it worse. And the economy suffered. Tariffs also punish us, the consumer, not the country the good originates from. He didn't hurt China one bit: he hurt the US consumer.
Lastly, and again this was because of Covid, but interest rates began rising on his watch, not Joe's. Biden and Trump's Fed pick in Powell have brought us back from the brink. Trump indicates he wouldn't keep Powell in place!?! Frankly, this is because Biden Administration with Powell have thus far prevented a recession! (Not saying Biden is responsible, but the administration as a whole.)

The Border is a quagmire that Trump and the Republicans haven't been able to solve, so blaming this all on Biden is disingenuous at best. Mostly an outright political lie. This given away by the fact that now with a bipartisan bill in the Senate, the House Republicans are back tracking on such a deal because it might look like a Biden Win with Trump only really having the Border as a talking point.

Now...

Put a strong, but Moderate Republican in Trumps position as the presumptive candidate. Somebody who denounces partisan brinksmanship and tries to unite both side for the greater good for the greatest number.

You can't. But try. ;)

Would I vote for such a person that disavowed Pro-Life politics and Maga Hatred in the name of fair fiscal conservative policies that helped all Americans? Yes
Would I vote for this person over Biden? Very Possibly.

Would Biden even be running if it weren't for Trump?
I don't think he would.

Would I vote for Gavin or Corey Booker over this nonexistent "RINO" candidate that Maga would disavow? YES.

Keep in mind that Haley and everybody else that was running had embraced the Maga profile at some point. Hutchinson might be Never-Trump, but his history as a Republican is one of draconian policy. Christie was no different at times.

Not one of this years GOP candidates had any bona fides that didn't disenfranchise a majority of the country for a minority of base voters.

We need to stop the antagonist politics and look toward healing the country by doing what is right for the greatest number of the citizenry. Not continue this I'm right-you're wrong program of power over community no matter the cost.

I don't like Biden. I don't want to have to choose him over anybody else. But I will. 3 years in, we are in a better place if you look at the facts. And I say this coming off the worst quarter my business has seen: ever. But it's not because of Biden or his policies. It's because of what started under Trump and has taken 3 years to manifest.

This is the classic Southpark Turd Sandwich or Douche episode. :(

IF:
our country could handle a true third party candidate, I would consider voting for somebody else. Our Constitution is designed for a 2 party system for a very important reason. They wanted to avoid having to rule by coalition. In today's terms, look at Italy, the UK, Israel: they all have problems holding a coalition. Israel and Italy are particularly good examples of government disfunction.
The 2-party system prevents this from happening. Everything that the Constitution was meant to do is to prevent disfunction. My argument is they didn't go far enough in clarifying, codifying, what was needed, only implied. The Founders never envisioned a rulership class: they expected people to go and serve 1-2 terms, then go back home to family and profession. So much more... but this isn't the place.

Regardless, and to your point Friend Will ;) :
Yes, I would vote for Biden again. I would prefer somebody else. I don't think he would run if a better republican candidate than anybody-Maga were running against him.

Too much qualification? :p Probably. ;)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I was planning on staying out of this. :confused:

I won't pretend that he will go down as all time great.

Is he a good president? Yes.

Do I like him? No.

Would I vote for him a second time if it meant preventing Trump from being President? Yes.

Would I vote for him if it meant a vote for Harris as President? Yes

At the end of the day, he is boring, his policies have led to a stronger economy (Honestly!) than we have seen since Obama, and he is doing his best to AVOID getting us into another war.

Yes, Trump had Covid and its economic impact on his watch. He didn't cause it, but his policy DID make it worse. And the economy suffered. Tariffs also punish us, the consumer, not the country the good originates from. He didn't hurt China one bit: he hurt the US consumer.
Lastly, and again this was because of Covid, but interest rates began rising on his watch, not Joe's. Biden and Trump's Fed pick in Powell have brought us back from the brink. Trump indicates he wouldn't keep Powell in place!?! Frankly, this is because Biden Administration with Powell have thus far prevented a recession! (Not saying Biden is responsible, but the administration as a whole.)

The Border is a quagmire that Trump and the Republicans haven't been able to solve, so blaming this all on Biden is disingenuous at best. Mostly an outright political lie. This given away by the fact that now with a bipartisan bill in the Senate, the House Republicans are back tracking on such a deal because it might look like a Biden Win with Trump only really having the Border as a talking point.

Now...

Put a strong, but Moderate Republican in Trumps position as the presumptive candidate. Somebody who denounces partisan brinksmanship and tries to unite both side for the greater good for the greatest number.

You can't. But try. ;)

Would I vote for such a person that disavowed Pro-Life politics and Maga Hatred in the name of fair fiscal conservative policies that helped all Americans? Yes
Would I vote for this person over Biden? Very Possibly.

Would Biden even be running if it weren't for Trump?
I don't think he would.

Would I vote for Gavin or Corey Booker over this nonexistent "RINO" candidate that Maga would disavow? YES.

Keep in mind that Haley and everybody else that was running had embraced the Maga profile at some point. Hutchinson might be Never-Trump, but his history as a Republican is one of draconian policy. Christie was no different at times.

Not one of this years GOP candidates had any bona fides that didn't disenfranchise a majority of the country for a minority of base voters.

We need to stop the antagonist politics and look toward healing the country by doing what is right for the greatest number of the citizenry. Not continue this I'm right-you're wrong program of power over community no matter the cost.

I don't like Biden. I don't want to have to choose him over anybody else. But I will. 3 years in, we are in a better place if you look at the facts. And I say this coming off the worst quarter my business has seen: ever. But it's not because of Biden or his policies. It's because of what started under Trump and has taken 3 years to manifest.

This is the classic Southpark Turd Sandwich or Douche episode. :(

IF:
our country could handle a true third party candidate, I would consider voting for somebody else. Our Constitution is designed for a 2 party system for a very important reason. They wanted to avoid having to rule by coalition. In today's terms, look at Italy, the UK, Israel: they all have problems holding a coalition. Israel and Italy are particularly good examples of government disfunction.
The 2-party system prevents this from happening. Everything that the Constitution was meant to do is to prevent disfunction. My argument is they didn't go far enough in clarifying, codifying, what was needed, only implied. The Founders never envisioned a rulership class: they expected people to go and serve 1-2 terms, then go back home to family and profession. So much more... but this isn't the place.

Regardless, and to your point Friend Will ;) :
Yes, I would vote for Biden again. I would prefer somebody else. I don't think he would run if a better republican candidate than anybody-Maga were running against him.

Too much qualification? :p Probably. ;)
Thanks RynoDino. I’m doing the brakes on my one truck atm. Will definitely go over this later.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I’m doing the brakes on my one truck atm. Will definitely go over this later.
Ha!
This is, unintentionally, the best possible reply and metaphor for all of us!
We are doing the breaks. Will get back to it later.

I'm not picking on you, Will, my friend. But this is truly a statement for our time.

This defines America in our “finest” hour.

The citizens of America are too busy with our own situations. We can’t be bothered to think about anybody or anything but what we are each individually focused on. “Our cars.” ;) (This is a perfect metaphor if you consider how we behave in our cars: everyone else is a nuisance at best, if not our enemy who we must beat to our destination! “I must be first!” “This pedestrian or cyclist is in my way!” Etc….)
We’ve stopped considering that the car next to us is another human. …And that car has its own problems and distractions, its own motivations.
It’s just us, in our cars, speeding down the highway listening to our jams, wishing nobody gets in our way.
Then the song starts to suck and we change stations and start listening to a friendly voice that tells us how upset we are and feels us like no other car feels us but our own.
We need to care for our car in a special way, different than all those other cars. Remember those other cars are our enemies!

Yup.

A perfect metaphor.

*sighs

And my fcuking power is out, and as soon as this fcuking storm is done with us, it’s going to wreak havoc upon the rest of the nation! Haha all you other fcuking cars! Your time is coming!!!

:p

Too much?
o_O

By-eeeee! :D
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Serious question.
IF trump was never president, or in politics at all. Would you guys still think Biden was a good president?
The problem with judging how good a presidency is is that most of the stuff that we think makes a great president are largely responses to extreme situations, i.e., wars, economic crisis, natural disasters, etc. Would Lincoln have been regarded as a great president if he didn't have to worry about trying to hold the United States together? FDR during WW2? Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis? To put it another way, circumstances allowed these presidents to shine. But that doesn't mean that some other administrations in less dramatic years weren't as competent or talented. As crazy as things are these days, Biden hasn't had to deal with anything on that scale (yet [thank god]). A boring presidency at least has the minimal competency not to let everything fall apart. I think thus far Biden's administration has been good, although not great. But it might take a pretty dire situation to give him a chance to achieve greatness -- reminding me of that proverbial curse (often incorrectly claimed to be ancient Chinese) "may you live in interesting times."
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Serious question.
IF trump was never president, or in politics at all. Would you guys still think Biden was a good president?
Hillary would have been it for 8 years, no? Joe would not be running now for 1st term?
But yes.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Little too early for Joe B to make this or other similar lists, but someone's fat orange ass is near the bottom on all of them. And will probably hit rock bottom once he's found guilty of all the crap he's guilty of.


 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Sure I can. Based solely on joes presidency.

Why can’t I remove trump from the equation. I’m just wondering if people really support joe Biden and the job he’s done, or if it’s nothing more than “at least he’s not trump” or something to that effect.
I can easily separate the two of them. How I feel about either one of them has nothing to do with the other.
You can't remove Trump from the equation, because a president's term in office doesn't happen in a vacuum. Dealing with the fallout of Trump's presidency has dominated Biden's time in office. And, as long as the GOP prioritizes obstruction in an effort to curry favour with Trump, Biden's job is made much tougher than it should be. Under those conditions, I don't see how anyone could do better.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
IF:
our country could handle a true third party candidate, I would consider voting for somebody else. Our Constitution is designed for a 2 party system for a very important reason. They wanted to avoid having to rule by coalition. In today's terms, look at Italy, the UK, Israel: they all have problems holding a coalition. Israel and Italy are particularly good examples of government disfunction.
The 2-party system prevents this from happening. Everything that the Constitution was meant to do is to prevent disfunction. My argument is they didn't go far enough in clarifying, codifying, what was needed, only implied. The Founders never envisioned a rulership class: they expected people to go and serve 1-2 terms, then go back home to family and profession. So much more... but this isn't the place.
I don't think the US constitution was designed to enable two dominant parties; that's just the way things panned out.
10.1 History of American Political Parties – American Government and Politics in the Information Age (umn.edu)

The UK doesn't actually have a coalition government. The Conservative party has a majority in parliament, meaning they don't need any other parties' members' votes to pass legislation. Despite that, they needlessly threw the country into turmoil by holding the Brexit referendum. Largely because of the chaos created by Brexit, the Tories have been cycling through leaders* (PMs) at an unprecedented rate. So, holding that majority hasn't been a recipe for stability for them.

In contrast, Canada does have a coalition government, of sorts. The Liberal party is in a minority position, meaning they have a plurality of seats in Parliament, but not a majority. To pass legislation, they need votes from other parties. For the past couple of terms in office, the New Democratic Party (NDP) has generally enabled the passing of legislation, as their combined seat numbers would form a majority. Up until a few years ago, the Conservatives (Tories) could actually be relied upon to add at least some yea votes on bills. However, they have been steadily becoming the "Maple MAGA" party and under their current leader, Pierre Poilievre, that extreme partisanship has lead to them voting unanimously against legislation in knee-jerk fashion.

So, while the UK's majority government is a $hitshow, Canada's minority government is managing to get $hit done.**

My point is that coalitions don't necessarily lead to unstable governments, while one party in a majority position doesn't automatically lead to smooth sailing either.


*Unlike the US, countries with Westminster parliamentary systems of government, e.g. the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, don't directly elect heads of government. Party leaders are elected by the party members and if their party wins a plurality of seats in an election, the party leader becomes Prime Minister.

**To be clear, I'm not a big fan of our PM - never have been - but I respect what he's managed to get done nevertheless. And, as long as the Tories insist on keeping their collective heads up their collective asses, I don't think I have any option but to support the Liberals.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Sometimes I get a little tired of bad talk about JB.
Poor boy ...........

why wasn't this part of his great 'doings list' you posted ?


Did Biden create this Souther border mess, of course not. Obama, handed off to Trump who handed it to Biden. But we have clearly been going in the wrong direction, even more so, the past few years. Interesting how in 2024 illegal crossings are down from the all time high in 2023, oh that's right, it's an election year !!

Anybody catch the '60 Minutes' piece last night ?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Poor boy ...........

why wasn't this part of his great 'doings list' you posted ?


Did Biden create this Souther border mess, of course not. Obama, handed off to Trump who handed it to Biden. But we have clearly been going in the wrong direction, even more so, the past few years. Interesting how in 2024 illegal crossings are down from the all time high in 2023, oh that's right, it's an election year !!

Anybody catch the '60 Minutes' piece last night ?
Well, it didn't start under Obama either.
PolitiFact | Key facts about immigration data: What it can and can’t tell us about border policies

Comparing Biden-era staffing versus 2000: In 2000, there were fewer Border Patrol agents, and that likely made it easier to cross the border evading apprehension, the American Immigration Council, an immigrant-rights advocacy group, said in a 2022 report. Immigration officials estimate that 2 million people entered the U.S. without detection that year. In fiscal year 2021, the latest available data, about 390,000 people evaded detection.

So, even though there were more encounters in 2021 than apprehensions in 2000, immigration officials estimate that more people evaded detection in 2000 than in 2021.
The only sure way to fix the border issue is to fix the broken countries that are the sources of illegal immigrants.
 
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