Question about Dirac & Def Tech BP9000 series

[TLS Guy]

Another quick thing in the CC XO. It might be worth lowering the XO on the center, as having it too high could introduce too much subwoofer. I have this with my in ceiling Atmos speakers. They’re crossed a little bit high, and when doing speaker callouts, they sound oddly full. I can’t detect this with normal content however.

That is a good recommendation. May be lower it to 60 Hz. I don't know how much LF his center will take though.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for all the info everyone, and for taking the time to try to help me out! Really appreciate this.

I reran a Dirac calibration this morning, being more careful about everything, but in the end same result: everything is better with Dirac, the surrounds, the bass, the soundstage, except dialog levels. I tried to bump up the center channel which obviously fixes that, but then I'm having to bump it up by so much (at least 7db) that any pan across the front speakers now feels unnatural (since the center channel is too hot compared to left and right).

I'll have to try to play with it some more. Maybe I need to go into Dirac before exporting the filters and tweak the graphs but I'm not sure what to aim for there.

As for connecting the center channel to the Denon pre out, that's a good idea I'll try that too. I checked and Denon for some reason doesn't offer an option for the center to be set as large (the other speakers can), but I'll keep it at 80hz (small) and connect the pre out and see if it helps.

Once again, thanks for all the help. I know my system and setup is far from ideal but thanks to all the tips I'm making great strides!

This is a common problem although yours is a severe case.

Getting a total design where the front speaker sound stage blends perfectly and seamlessly and has clear balanced speech where you NEVER have to adjust the dialog level is a very significant engineering challenge.

When I designed my system this aspect was the result of at least a years intensive research and design. It is a difficult nut to crack. My solutions ended up being unique, with nothing else out there remotely equivalent.

I went through it again with our in wall system. Since first installation I have made significant modifications, which largely revolved round wall reinforcement issues. In walls are not easy either.

 

[Trebdp83]

The receiver will not allow a Large setting of the Center Channel Speaker when the Fronts are set to Small and the Subwoofer Directional feature will not work for any speakers set at Large.

 

[txenakis]

But the strange thing is if i run the Denon as is, with no room correction, dialog sounds fine and is well balanced with the other frequencies. Everything else is worse than with Dirac of course. So Dirac must be doing something weird to that center channel, just dont know what yet.

 

[txenakis]

The receiver will not allow a Large setting of the Center Channel Speaker when the Fronts are set to Small and the Subwoofer Directional feature will not work for any speakers set at Large.

Thanks. So in my case I should leave all three front speakers to small correct?

 

[isolar8001]

But the strange thing is if i run the Denon as is, with no room correction, dialog sounds fine and is well balanced with the other frequencies. Everything else is worse than with Dirac of course. So Dirac must be doing something weird to that center channel, just dont know what yet.

Have you tried Audyssey as a comparison to Dirac ?

Or looked at the EQ curve Dirac has come up with for the center.
On my Pioneer I run MCACC just to set distances/delays, and then set EQ by ear to how I like it, and I have Dirac which I have never used.

Frankly when it comes to Dirac, most posts I see describe nothing but issues with it either in the results or the method of measuring.
Just never gives me the incentive to actually go through with it.
For what Dirac charges, that better be the best program ever made.

 

[TLS Guy]

Have you tried Audyssey as a comparison to Dirac ?

Or looked at the EQ curve Dirac has come up with for the center.
On my Pioneer I run MCACC just to set distances/delays, and then set EQ by ear to how I like it, and I have Dirac which I have never used.

Frankly when it comes to Dirac, most posts I see describe nothing but issues with it either in the results or the method of measuring.
Just never gives me the incentive to actually go through with it.
For what Dirac charges, that better be the best program ever made.

That is a good suggestion. I have only examined Audyssey, but don't use it. None of my three systems use so called "room correction". That is a misnomer for a start.
My moto is "right by design." May be he will be best served not using those systems, that is always an option. I believe a lot of the theory behind those systems is false.

 

[Trebdp83]

Thanks. So in my case I should leave all three front speakers to small correct?

I won’t go as far as to say what you should do, but if I were using the same gear, I’d run 5.1.4 and lose the bi-poles. Then, I’d compare it to 5.1 with virtual heights by turning off the bouncers. I’d set all speakers to Small and start with an 80Hz crossover for fronts and surrounds and the bouncers would be at 120Hz before turning them off. I’d use the Directional Subwoofer mode. I’d play with the EQ concerning the center channel speaker.

If dialogue is better without room correction, why use it? Room correction cannot fix less than optimal placement of subs when they are fixed to the speaker cabinets. Audyssey Sub EQ HT will not work when using Directional Subwoofer mode. This is one setup that really needs serious tweaking to get balanced out. The features of the X3800H really help here. One should tweak their own setup to their own liking but some setups will be difficult to tweak.