Why can't I find speakers with these specs anymore?

  • Thread starter Nicholas Caged Animal
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N

Nicholas Caged Animal

Audiophyte
Am I missing something? Pretty much every new tower speaker today is either 2 or 3 way and the drivers are typically smaller with lower wattage and sensitivity isn't much higher (I know Klipsch list high sensitivity ratings but they cheat using in room measurements) I can't find speakers with the same wattage and other specs (at least not in the same price range)

Some might say that 'on paper' specs aren't the full story when it comes to speaker quality. Are the newer speakers more efficient so that they don't need as much driver size and wattage? Is it like how old cars used to have big 6 liter or bigger engines (well Cadillac in 1970s went up to 8.2 liter) but today's engines are smaller yet have more power and are more fuel efficient? Is it like that?


eg. Sony Front speakers from mid to late 2000's:

1703231004566.png



Center speaker:

1703231065259.png
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Am I missing something? Pretty much every new tower speaker today is either 2 or 3 way and the drivers are typically smaller with lower wattage and sensitivity isn't much higher (I know Klipsch list high sensitivity ratings but they cheat using in room measurements) I can't find speakers with the same wattage and other specs (at least not in the same price range)

Some might say that 'on paper' specs aren't the full story when it comes to speaker quality. Are the newer speakers more efficient so that they don't need as much driver size and wattage? Is it like how old cars used to have big 6 liter or bigger engines (well Cadillac in 1970s went up to 8.2 liter) but today's engines are smaller yet have more power and are more fuel efficient? Is it like that?


eg. Sony Front speakers from mid to late 2000's:

View attachment 64787


Center speaker:

View attachment 64788
You are looking for speakers that were just plain awful.

Current speakers are slimmer to minimize diffraction issues, and it is now pretty much taken for granted they will be used with a sub or two, which eliminates the need for a lot of bass extension. That is just the way things have moved. Lastly you are looking at Asian speakers, which in the main have been disasters.
 
N

Nicholas Caged Animal

Audiophyte
Thanks, but what was so awful about them? The sensitivity, wattage and freq range still compare favorably to today's ones.
Asian speakers? Aren't they all made in China anyway?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Sony had some good speakers back in the ~90s. They were transmission line. A friend of mine still uses his pair and they still sound good. And I think what TLS is getting is the mass market models focus on putting together a box and some drivers that look like a speaker at a price point which means less engineering, lower quality components, cheap cabinets, and average sound at best. That is not unique to Asian brands, but is pretty typical of the price range across the board.

I know it is hard to go listen to things these days with so few shops, but the only way to really get a good idea if it is junk or not is to hear a speaker. Yes, it is just like your car analogy - things changed, mostly for the better, so maybe the better question is: what's the budget and what are they for? You'll probably get more results here than you can shake a stick at that way.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
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isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic Field Marshall
Those Sonys Be Bumpin' (sounds like they are soon to be smokin')
And you get a free explanation of amp and speaker power ratings also...where has this vid been hiding all this time ?
(it's a total of 400 watts as he clearly states for those speakers)

 
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DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
Triad has great in-wall speakers, made in Portland, Oregon. The company will even paint the grills to match your walls.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks, but what was so awful about them? The sensitivity, wattage and freq range still compare favorably to today's ones.
Asian speakers? Aren't they all made in China anyway?
I think you are still looking for speakers with cheap woofers, with paper cones in a mistuned box, and a cheap midrange, usually a TV speaker, and known as a "squarker" finished off with a cheap tweeter, which also sometimes had a paper cone. Thankfully those are long gone.
None of us are sure what you are actually looking for and what you plan to use these speakers for.
 
N

Nicholas Caged Animal

Audiophyte
I borrowed some Klipsch R-620F and gave them a run through on movies and music. The biggest difference I noticed was the bass which was much improved. Everything else was better, sound was a little more detailed, but not louder and I wouldn't say a night and day difference overall. Granted the 620F seems to be a lower tier model in the Klipsch range and I still had the Sony center speaker which I suppose could blur the comparison a little bit?.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I borrowed some Klipsch R-620F and gave them a run through on movies and music. The biggest difference I noticed was the bass which was much improved. Everything else was better, sound was a little more detailed, but not louder and I wouldn't say a night and day difference overall. Granted the 620F seems to be a lower tier model in the Klipsch range and I still had the Sony center speaker which I suppose could blur the comparison a little bit?.
From this I gather you are looking to replace your front three speakers. What is your budget? Klipsch are not the apogee of what is currently available.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'd eliminate "wattage" as a spec to go by, it doesn't mean a whole lot. Sony speakers in general have never been all that desirable IME. Those Sony drivers aren't all that large, but that's not always a good metric either. If you want a tower with 8" drivers that perform well at a good price, watch for the JBL 590 when they're on sale.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Am I missing something? Pretty much every new tower speaker today is either 2 or 3 way and the drivers are typically smaller with lower wattage and sensitivity isn't much higher (I know Klipsch list high sensitivity ratings but they cheat using in room measurements) I can't find speakers with the same wattage and other specs (at least not in the same price range)

Some might say that 'on paper' specs aren't the full story when it comes to speaker quality. Are the newer speakers more efficient so that they don't need as much driver size and wattage? Is it like how old cars used to have big 6 liter or bigger engines (well Cadillac in 1970s went up to 8.2 liter) but today's engines are smaller yet have more power and are more fuel efficient? Is it like that?


eg. Sony Front speakers from mid to late 2000's:

View attachment 64787


Center speaker:

View attachment 64788
In spite of what modern trends may inflict, there is still no replacement for displacement. Luckily for me, I went for the biggies first, and experimented with the smaller speakers after. Thank God I went with what I knew about physics first. I found out a few things. My absolute minimum near field woofer size is 6.5" and I can 'just' get by with that. 8" is my real minimum, and again, point-blank near field use with just enough oompf for living room music for casual listening.

Anything two-way, should be considered to need a subwoofer, and preferably a pair. Two-way for full range use is like a 3-way speaker that is missing it's 3rd way, and typically at the peril of mid-range. Now they have two-ways with little subwoofer drivers with rolled rubber surrounds trying to be more than they ever can be, and to me they sound exactly like that. As soon as I see someone claim (nearly cliché now) that some little 5" two way "sounds much bigger than it actually is," I run the other way.

You can find speakers like you want, but they are typically expensive. I had to build mine from a kit because I could not find exactly what I wanted. Thankfully a member here knew what I was on about and suggested a good design that actually measure quite well too, and can handle about 500 WRMS of power with very low distortion. They're in essence of something of a monitor style like I might have picked by JBL, and with 12" paper woofers, FTW.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
In spite of what modern trends may inflict, there is still no replacement for displacement. Luckily for me, I went for the biggies first, and experimented with the smaller speakers after. Thank God I went with what I knew about physics first. I found out a few things. My absolute minimum near field woofer size is 6.5" and I can 'just' get by with that. 8" is my real minimum, and again, point-blank near field use with just enough oompf for living room music for casual listening.

Anything two-way, should be considered to need a subwoofer, and preferably a pair. Two-way for full range use is like a 3-way speaker that is missing it's 3rd way, and typically at the peril of mid-range. Now they have two-ways with little subwoofer drivers with rolled rubber surrounds trying to be more than they ever can be, and to me they sound exactly like that. As soon as I see someone claim (nearly cliché now) that some little 5" two way "sounds much bigger than it actually is," I run the other way.

You can find speakers like you want, but they are typically expensive. I had to build mine from a kit because I could not find exactly what I wanted. Thankfully a member here knew what I was on about and suggested a good design that actually measure quite well too, and can handle about 500 WRMS of power with very low distortion. They're in essence of something of a monitor style like I might have picked by JBL, and with 12" paper woofers, FTW.
I don't disagree with what you say about woofer size. I would say you are correct about 7.5" to 8" is about the limit forgetting decent bass. In smaller drivers, they become excursion limited and Fs is too high. However smaller drivers and a sub can be a better option as you have an active crossover. The problem is that it is an off the shelf crossover. Ideally speakers should be mated with a uniquely designed crossover and sub.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks, but what was so awful about them? The sensitivity, wattage and freq range still compare favorably to today's ones.
Asian speakers? Aren't they all made in China anyway?
When those speakers were made, China wasn't a factor. Now, they make almost everything. The SS-CN5000 listing I found shows 'Made In Malasia' on the label.
 
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