Sumiko Rainier Cartridge

[Squishman]

Can anyone tell if the Sumiko Rainier cartridge is better (or the comparable) to Ortofon Blue? I am considering the new ProJect Debut Carbon Evo Turntable because it has a speed change switch, which is far better speed changer than my Project with the Ortofon Blue. Mine is cumbersome to change speeds, then change it back and I have a handful of 12" 45's, some of them are MoFi's

 

[lovinthehd]

Why not just use both cartridges on your new tt and judge for yourself?

 

[Squishman]

A. I don't have the new turntable. B. These tt's do not have removeable headshells.

 

[lovinthehd]

A. I don't have the new turntable. B. These tt's do not have removeable headshells.

That would make it a bit more difficult, but they still take a standard cartridge mount I'd think....

I never found much differences in the various cartridges I used over the years....they tended to be the better offerings in MM, tho.

 

[Squishman]

I do not know the difference between MM and MC. Both are MM. Ortofon Blue is more expensive than the Sumiko if that means anything. I wouldn't upgrade the tt if the cart was a downgrade.

 

[Verdinut]

I do not know the difference between MM and MC. Both are MM. Ortofon Blue is more expensive than the Sumiko if that means anything. I wouldn't upgrade the tt if the cart was a downgrade.

MM stands for moving magnet cartridge while MC stands for moving coil cartridge. The voltage output of a moving coil cartridge is quite lower than that from the moving magnet type, so it requires the appropriate voltage gain from a preamp to feed a power amp input voltage requirement.

 

[Squishman]

I know what it stands for. But that's all I know.

 

[TLS Guy]

Can anyone tell if the Sumiko Rainier cartridge is better (or the comparable) to Ortofon Blue? I am considering the new ProJect Debut Carbon Evo Turntable because it has a speed change switch, which is far better speed changer than my Project with the Ortofon Blue. Mine is cumbersome to change speeds, then change it back and I have a handful of 12" 45's, some of them are MoFi's

The Ortofon Blue is one of the best cartridges around, you have to go to the Ortofon Black to best it. As far as I can tell that Sumiko Rainier cartridge is aimed at the D.J. market. Apart from Audio Technica, who have produced some good value cartridges over the years, I tend to view Japanese cartridges with a lot of suspicion. Ortofon have made world beating LP cartridges for seventy years. Now that Shure Bros. have stopped making cartridges, Ortofon are now my top recommendation. It is not that they are worse than Shure, but Shure tended to provide better value for money. So if you buy a new turntable, put the Ortofon Blue is the Project turntable.

 

[Squishman]

The Ortofon Blue is one of the best cartridges around, you have to go to the Ortofon Black to best it. As far as I can tell that Sumiko Rainier cartridge is aimed at the D.J. market. Apart from Audio Technica, who have produced some good value cartridges over the years, I tend to view Japanese cartridges with a lot of suspicion. Ortofon have made world beating LP cartridges for seventy years. Now that Shure Bros. have stopped making cartridges, Ortofon are now my top recommendation. It is not that they are worse than Shure, but Shure tended to provide better value for money. So if you buy a new turntable, put the Ortofon Blue is the Project turntable.

Good to know Doc. Thx! I will order this turntable and switch out the carts. I imagine my current one will sell just fine with a never used Sumiko cartridge. I have a turntable protractor, but why would a guy need a tracking force gauge? I know how to set the weight, zeroing out the weight first. I have known this since I was a teenager.

 

[Squishman]

Hopefully there will be a price drop on Cyber Monday on the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo. I would've ordered today if I could get it over the weekend. Not so lucky.

 

[highfigh]

Can anyone tell if the Sumiko Rainier cartridge is better (or the comparable) to Ortofon Blue? I am considering the new ProJect Debut Carbon Evo Turntable because it has a speed change switch, which is far better speed changer than my Project with the Ortofon Blue. Mine is cumbersome to change speeds, then change it back and I have a handful of 12" 45's, some of them are MoFi's

Which ProJect model do you have now?

 

[Squishman]

Which ProJect model do you have now?

The original Debut Carbon. It came with a red Ortofon that I upgraded to blue about a year ago.

 

[TLS Guy]

Good to know Doc. Thx! I will order this turntable and switch out the carts. I imagine my current one will sell just fine with a never used Sumiko cartridge. I have a turntable protractor, but why would a guy need a tracking force gauge? I know how to set the weight, zeroing out the weight first. I have known this since I was a teenager.

Who said you needed a tracking force gauge? The most important thing is the tracking protractor. I have one, but that is because it is a beautifully made Garrard gage sixty plus years old, and is part of the"'museum".

 

[Squishman]

Who said you needed a tracking force gauge? The most important thing is the tracking protractor. I have one, but that is because it is a beautifully made Garrard gage sixty plus years old, and is part of the"'museum".

Just looking at a yt video. They included it in tools needed to change a cart. I didn't think it was necessary!

 

[highfigh]

Just looking at a yt video. They included it in tools needed to change a cart. I didn't think it was necessary!

If you follow the cartridge manufacturer's specs, you shouldn't have any problems with tracking force. I usually start in the middle and listen for excessive distortion on loud passages.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not all arms are going to be accurate on their weight scales, or perhaps even have any, I think is where a recommendation for a weight gauge comes in.

 

[Squishman]

I bought one on Crutchfield this morning. Selling the old one with a new cart will seriously defray the cost of the new one.

 

[Eppie]

I bought one on Crutchfield this morning. Selling the old one with a new cart will seriously defray the cost of the new one.

I chose the Debut Carbon EVO as best bang for the buck in 2021. It came with the Ortofon Red so they must be trying to increase margins by switching to the Sumiko Rainier (Sumiko does make some good cartridges). I have not changed the stylus to the blue yet but may some day. The speed switch is underneath with no markings so you have to remember which direction is for 45 or 33.

I later switched to the acrylic platter. The steel platter on the EVO has a damping ring which does reduce resonance, but it still rings. The platter change was more for aesthetics though as I doubt the steel platter produces any audible noise. Here's the TT with the acrylic platter:

The other items I would add are a dust bug (if the doc ever finds another) and a tone arm lift. I worry about falling asleep with the needle in the out-groove and would just like the convenience of an auto-lift. There are plastic ones that work ok but I question their reliability as the damping fluid can leak or dry out. I am saving for a Tru-Lift which is made in Canada. They are expensive but fortunately the Carbon EVO takes the smallest one which is cheapest. They just use blue tack to stick it down so it does not mar the plinth.

Enjoy the new table when it arrives!

 

[ban25]

I would not recommend the Sumiko Rainier for DJ use! The tracking force is too light at 2g and the cantilever is unlikely to stand up to heavy DJ use and back-cueing. The Rainer is an entry-level MM cartridge for hifi use, similar to your Ortofon Blue or Red.

Overall, I'm not a fan of the Pro-Ject tables, particularly the Carbon EVO, as the speed stability and W+F is poor and something you can easily hear on certain genres of music or poor presses. Not to mention they are very slow to get up to speed and to change from 33 to 45, let alone having to swap the belt for 78! For serious vinyl listeners, I highly recommend a direct-drive table, but of course these tend to be more expensive than entry-level belt drives, so I understand they are not for everyone.

 

[Squishman]

I chose the Debut Carbon EVO as best bang for the buck in 2021. It came with the Ortofon Red so they must be trying to increase margins by switching to the Sumiko Rainier (Sumiko does make some good cartridges). I have not changed the stylus to the blue yet but may some day. The speed switch is underneath with no markings so you have to remember which direction is for 45 or 33.

I later switched to the acrylic platter. The steel platter on the EVO has a damping ring which does reduce resonance, but it still rings. The platter change was more for aesthetics though as I doubt the steel platter produces any audible noise. Here's the TT with the acrylic platter:

The other items I would add are a dust bug (if the doc ever finds another) and a tone arm lift. I worry about falling asleep with the needle in the out-groove and would just like the convenience of an auto-lift. There are plastic ones that work ok but I question their reliability as the damping fluid can leak or dry out. I am saving for a Tru-Lift which is made in Canada. They are expensive but fortunately the Carbon EVO takes the smallest one which is cheapest. They just use blue tack to stick it down so it does not mar the plinth.

Enjoy the new table when it arrives!

Thanks Eppie. I'm the guy who got the Dust Bug just before Thanksgiving from the good doctor. It is such a tremendous tool. Very happy to have it. I also have a lift called the QUp (I think that's the name. My dogs are on my lap on my recliner at the moment!). No damping fluid, just a trigger mounted spring, but it works great.