Help - I bought HTD Whole House

[rburtonanderson]

New here....I built a new house and I'm a musician so I enjoy great audio. I pre-wired the house based on recommendations from HTD running CAT6 to each room and pairs of 14 ga wire. I bought 12 pairs of HTDs higher end in-wall and in-ceiling speakers and 12 of their LYNC wall pad controllers along with 2 of their amps and a source controller.

For one thing....we never use the wall pads, only the cell phone app. A large majority of the time we spend a great deal of time waiting for the app to recognize the controller. (We have wifi extendeders throughout the house and strong signal) Oftentimes it takes minutes to connect.....my vacuum cleaner app syncs much better.

On a good note, it makes noise and functions. On a bad note, the sound is absolute crap. Flat as hell and not musical at all. There is limited equipment eq capability on their phone app and db switches on the speakers which don't improve things much at all.

After spending $7k on a diy system that sounds like piss, I'm at a crossroad. Do I try adding a sub or better speakers, or do I tear it all out and start over? Financially, I'd be happy with "decent background sound" since I'm already heavily invested in this crap system. If there is a fix that wouldn't involve full replacement, I may consider that route.

I went to my neighbors place who had just had a Sonus system installed and it sounded incredible when compared to this HTD gear. Made me wish that I went that route as that is acceptable to me for background music.

Any thoughts?
.

 

[TLS Guy]

New here....I built a new house and I'm a musician so I enjoy great audio. I pre-wired the house based on recommendations from HTD running CAT6 to each room and pairs of 14 ga wire. I bought 12 pairs of HTDs higher end in-wall and in-ceiling speakers and 12 of their LYNC wall pad controllers along with 2 of their amps and a source controller.

For one thing....we never use the wall pads, only the cell phone app. A large majority of the time we spend a great deal of time waiting for the app to recognize the controller. (We have wifi extendeders throughout the house and strong signal) Oftentimes it takes minutes to connect.....my vacuum cleaner app syncs much better.

On a good note, it makes noise and functions. On a bad note, the sound is absolute crap. Flat as hell and not musical at all. There is limited equipment eq capability on their phone app and db switches on the speakers which don't improve things much at all.

After spending $7k on a diy system that sounds like piss, I'm at a crossroad. Do I try adding a sub or better speakers, o I tear it all out and start over?

I went to my neighbors place who had just had a Sonus system installed and it sounded incredible. Made me with that I went that route

Any thoughts?
.

In general systems like that are junk and beyond redemption. Sonos are the best of those type of systems I think, but I would not call them incredible. In my book they are not incredible by a long shot. One of my sons has one, but it is not his listen to system, just background. I would personally run a mile from that sort of junk.

If you want good sound then you use dedicated systems with good separate speakers at least a stereo pair for sure. You can build from there. I only use ceiling speakers for the top layer Atmos speakers.

I went on that HTD site and it just fills me with dread. That is the sort of stuff you run a mile in the other direction from.

The time to post here was before you planned anything. There is the old adage, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". Unfortunately you have the sow's ear.

 

[rburtonanderson]

Thanks for the comments.

By saying "incredible" in reference to the Sonos system, I meant in comparison to my HTD. When you need to buy 24 speakers and power them, HTD seemed like a good middle of the road compromise price-wise. The reviews seemed mostly favorable and I knew several folks who had the same system and liked it. Different strokes.

To clarify, I do have separate stereo pairs ran to each room from a central location in the basement.

So now I need to begin moving on and work on getting acceptable sound in the main rooms that I spend the most time in. Kitchen, bar, back yard pool area, gym. Since winter is close by, the kitchen and bar will be first.

Open to, and appreciative of, recommendations.

 

[MrBoat]

Thanks for the comments.

By saying "incredible" in reference to the Sonos system, I meant in comparison to my HTD. When you need to buy 24 speakers and power them, HTD seemed like a good middle of the road compromise price-wise. The reviews seemed mostly favorable and I knew several folks who had the same system and liked it. Different strokes.

To clarify, I do have separate stereo pairs ran to each room from a central location in the basement.

So now I need to begin moving on and work on getting acceptable sound in the main rooms that I spend the most time in. Kitchen, bar, back yard pool area, gym. Since winter is close by, the kitchen and bar will be first.

Open to, and appreciative of, recommendations.

Music, to me, is worth dedicating specific time and physical effort to. Background, or everywhere/convenient music tends to instead, wear on me. If I listen to random music all day at work, for instance, by the time I get home, I am ready for peace and quiet, instead. I listen to music on avg. 5hrs/day. As such, it has to be excellent, along with an anticipatory period that leads up to it. I will be working along and the thought of a song or sound will come into my head and the urge for a listening session builds from there and I start really looking forward to a full-on, high performance listening session. By the time I get home, I rush to get all my chores/dinner done, grab a Guinness and settle in for something that instead, never gets old.

I have been listening this way for roughly 40 years by now, but even as a boy before that, music was something we set aside time for. Everyone I have known who had a whole house system ended up not using it once the novelty wore off.

Same with what remains of my audio friends that have a large room/system dedicated to HT. They end up watching the TV in the living room with the soundbar instead, 99% of the time. Two of them have actually reverted back to high performing 2.1-channel systems for music exclusively since hearing mine. In this day of hi-tech, smart gadget, plug'n play everything, they had forgotten how valid and trouble free dedicated two channel is. Now I get links to songs and albums from them nightly because they are listening more, which is good because we all kind of have company at night to listen with.

I have multiple separate 2-channel systems, including one at a table I sit at and one in my bedroom. They're so good in fact, that they can keep me cemented in place for hrs., while I try to find a good place to cut, to even go to the restroom, before some other song hooks me again.

Music outside is a good way to irritate the neighbors. I have new neighbors that think everyone must love loud mariachi music into the late hours, even on weekdays. Unless I lived on some large spread in the country, I would be happy with headphones or ear buds outdoors if I really needed to be entertained outdoors.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the comments.

By saying "incredible" in reference to the Sonos system, I meant in comparison to my HTD. When you need to buy 24 speakers and power them, HTD seemed like a good middle of the road compromise price-wise. The reviews seemed mostly favorable and I knew several folks who had the same system and liked it. Different strokes.

To clarify, I do have separate stereo pairs ran to each room from a central location in the basement.

So now I need to begin moving on and work on getting acceptable sound in the main rooms that I spend the most time in. Kitchen, bar, back yard pool area, gym. Since winter is close by, the kitchen and bar will be first.

Open to, and appreciative of, recommendations.

Your basic aims are incompatible with the technology you have bought and installed. Those sound everywhere ceiling installations a doomed never to fulfill your objectives. At best they can give your home the ambience of a hotel lobby or shopping mall.

The way I go about this is to decide which rooms I want audio in, and then design an install systems compatible with my aims. I strongly believe that each system should be designed as a discrete systems. These interconnected systems waste a ton of money, wire and resources for something that never satisfies. The market also has a say in this, as it actually decreases the value of houses with these installed.

We do have some professional installers here who likely can offer you some advice. My personal view is that they are something I would run a mile from and never ever listen to.

I have a full 7.2.4 Atmos theater room. In our main living area I have a 3.2 in wall system that my wife loves, and in our family room a very nice 2.1 system which is great for listening to music by the fire in the winter.

My unfortunate view is that you walked down the wrong road, and kept walking. As a musician and music lover you have chosen a design with sonic architecture that will never satisfy you, no matter what you do it, or spend on it. The reason is that the physics of sound reproduction are incompatible with your plans and desires.

AV room

Great Room

Family room

None of them are interconnected and all three give immense pleasure.

 

[Eppie]

@rburtonanderson So far you just have recommendations to basically start over. You can try and take a methodical approach to this:

• Do you find the app and control panels acceptable to work with? Can the system be improved with firmware and software updates? There's little point in working further if the app is such a bad experience that you will never use the system.
• If you can live with the app, then you need to address the sound quality issue.

1. Try and examine the system as 3 separate components: source controller, amps and speakers.
2. If the speakers are 8 ohm and not 70V speakers that require a 70V distribution amp, then you can try and connect bookshelf speakers to one of the amp channels and see how they sound.
3. If you have any home audio gear, connect two of the in-walls to a receiver or integrated amp. Maybe borrow from a friend if you don't have the gear. How do the in-walls and in-ceiling speakers sound on a regular receiver?
4. The goal is to see where the weak link is. If the bookshelves sound good on the HDT amps but the in-walls still sound band connected to a receiver, then the speakers are simply poor quality and you may be looking at replacing all of the speakers where desired.
5. If the bookshelves also sound bad, can you connect a different source to the amps to see if the source controller is the issue? Do the amps have sufficient power to drive a pair of bookshelves?
6. If you find that you just don't like the speakers and they are 8 ohm, you can try and swap out one pair for another brand and see if there is a noticeable improvement. Use a reputable company like Paradigm or Monitor Audio or RSL if you're on a budget.
7. If you can not isolate the issue then you may be left with having to try and sell the system and replacing it.

 

[highfigh]

Music outside is a good way to irritate the neighbors. I have new neighbors that think everyone must love loud mariachi music into the late hours, even on weekdays. Unless I lived on some large spread in the country, I would be happy with headphones or ear buds outdoors if I really needed to be entertained outdoors.

Music outdoors is installed wrong- the speakers usually face away from the house, often toward a neighboring house, and to prevent the sound going where it's not wanted or needed, they should face the house from the outer edge of the area where the music is needed and some kind of planing or a wall should be there to block the reflected sound going too far. Also, audio systems where homes are in close proximity should never have the ability to produce strong bass unless attention is paid to when the neighbors are away. Those frequencies can't be stopped unless the nearby home's wall is massive, has absolutely no doors or windows and the place was built like a bomb shelter.

That doesn't mean the system has to sound bad, though- knowing which frequencies need to be cut (generally below 50Hz) can make all parties happy as long as the ones who own the system understand that they can't blast it like Woodstock or a disco if they want peaceful coexistence.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks for the comments.

By saying "incredible" in reference to the Sonos system, I meant in comparison to my HTD. When you need to buy 24 speakers and power them, HTD seemed like a good middle of the road compromise price-wise. The reviews seemed mostly favorable and I knew several folks who had the same system and liked it. Different strokes.

To clarify, I do have separate stereo pairs ran to each room from a central location in the basement.

So now I need to begin moving on and work on getting acceptable sound in the main rooms that I spend the most time in. Kitchen, bar, back yard pool area, gym. Since winter is close by, the kitchen and bar will be first.

Open to, and appreciative of, recommendations.

More speakers that are closer to the listeners avoids the need to crank the output and annoy the neighbors. That, and some discipline WRT controlling the SPL.

I haven't seen any mention of budget, but outdoor speakers that don't look like traditional speakers are available- look into 'landscape speakers' like the ones in the photo. I have heard this system, as well as others that are similar- done right, the sound won't annoy the neighbors and they sound very good. The trick is to do it right- these are usually 70V systems, mono and use a power amp that can operate with 70V and 4-8 Ohm speakers (one channel connects to each type), with the 70V speakers being the satellites, the 4-8 Ohm channel is for the subs. The power amp has a DSP, which sets/controls the level of each channel,crossover points, compression/limiting and that all needs to be done correctly, with RTA to make it sound good. Crown CDi amps use their Audio Architect software and from experience, I can say that it can turn a bad situation into a good one- I used one of these for a school gym and I'm sure you can imagine the bad sound quality. However, that place had wood-grained pegboard on the ceiling with fiberglass insulation above, so it was better from the start. It still had lots of reflections but with the software, it was possible to tame most of the problems without a crown in the room and with some educated guesswork, it has worked very well for the last five+ years.

Software | HiQnet Audio Architect | English (US)

audioarchitect.harmanpro.com

Crown amp-

Crown CDi 1000

The CDi Series amplifiers are professional tools designed and built for installed sound applicati...

www.crownaudio.com

With this equipment and the knowledge of setting it up, you can use any speakers and sub (if you even want a sub). If you want to use it without subwoofer(s) and especially if you want to save money, look at the Dayton power amps- they also have their own DSP if you want to compare it to MiniDSP.