Reqs for a new turntable

[whodunit68]

I have a pretty decent basic system for my novice self in HT. Wife wants to add a turntable for my birthday. Nice surprise.

We are not audiophiles but love music
We have the Costco Onkyo receiver TX-NR6050, 2 SVS Subs, an Emotiva for PCR and 2 surrounds on book stands. For us it's plenty. We know we don't really want to spend a lot on this but don't want complete crap. Lots of searching shows $500 is plenty.
I've seen lots of "top 5 turntable" lists. What I don't know and why I'm seeking help is to know what I need or don't need I will not overanalyze this like I do everything but what are the things to look for? Example - do I need a pre-amp? Needle quality?
TIA

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[highfigh]

This receiver has a phono preamp, so you don't need to buy one.

Needle quality is always important, but the level of quality should be tempered with your expectations, ability to hear small differences and to go along with that, the desire to listen to the small differences, rather than the music itself.

As someone who has sold audio equipment for close to 50 years, I get some push back when I post comments like "At some point, don't people just want to listen to the music instead of the equipment?". Don't fall into the trap of searching for 'the best' of anything, look for something that won't break the bank. For the $500 you mentioned, you can buy a turntable and cartridge that's very good and should last a long time but from working for audio stores that serviced equipment, I would recommend that the turntable be simple, rather than complicated. I have a complicated turntable and if the electronics fail, it will just be a somewhat nice-looking paperweight.

I don't have any hands-on experience with this brand, but have read many good reviews about the products and company.

Turntables

Critically acclaimed turntables for vinyl lovers and everyday listeners. Learn more about the Orbit Turntable and our design philosophy.

uturnaudio.com

 

[Swerd]

Highfigh's general advice above is good.

Keep in mind that no turntable will actually be money well spent if you're looking for improved sound quality. That's why there are so many different speakers available. Speakers are where the rubber hits the road.

The link's photo shows the turntable in an easily accessed location, a good idea. But below it is the receiver with what amounts to a cover directly above it – a bad idea. Receivers and amps generate heat. Find a better way to allow that hot air to escape. It doesn't require heroic efforts, just don't trap it, as in the photo.

 

[Eppie]

Also consider whether you want an automatic or manual turntable. While auto-start is not a must (all modern tables have a cue lever) having auto-return can be nice. The U-turn tables mentioned above get good ratings in your price range and Project has nice tables in the Debut line (Carbon EVO is currently on sale and that's what I own but it's fully manual). They come with good cartridges as well. If you want a more classic styling then look at AudioTechnica. Their cartridges are very widely used as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

Also consider whether you want an automatic or manual turntable. While auto-start is not a must (all modern tables have a cue lever) having auto-return can be nice. The U-turn tables mentioned above get good ratings in your price range and Project has nice tables in the Debut line (Carbon EVO is currently on sale and that's what I own but it's fully manual). They come with good cartridges as well. If you want a more classic styling then look at AudioTechnica. Their cartridges are very widely used as well.

What Gilbert Briggs said about automatic turntables is still correct. "The designers wandered in from the bicycle industry!" A cartridge should not have to pull extra garbage. The bearing friction is quite enough. Automatic turntables are to be avoided.

By the way, it is also sensible to look for good vintage turntables, although I have to admit that the better ones are going for nose bleeding prices now.

I would go for the U-Turn or Project with an Ortofon Red, or blue, and also consider an Audio Technica cartridge. Those are good starter turntables.

This drive back to vinyl has taken me by surprise. I now note that many new recordings are not even issued in CD format, just in varying quality downloads at different prices. I have to say I find that a real PITA. The only advantage is you get your recording right away. I guess I'm showing my age, but I don't like it as a first choice.

With analog you have to own the hard media. I must say I do still really value my legacy LP collection. I was playing a number of discs recently and only noted one pop in hours of playing. I think anyone coming in the room would probably not realized it was not the latest digital. Properly set up with top end gear, LPs can sound very good indeed. You have to look after your discs and equipment. Obsessional set up is also required. It really amounts to an art form, playing vinyl. May be that is part of its attraction.

 

[Eppie]

I fall asleep to music sometimes so auto-lift is nice to avoid the needle tracing the run out groove. I still plan to get a Tru-lift but it's almost the price of a starter table. It has a hair trigger so the pressure on the stylus should be negligible. I understand the concern over standard automatics though especially with high compliance cartridges.

I'm still trying to find the best cleaning remedy. I have the standard fabric cleaning pad which can be used wet or dry, a carbon fibre brush, unvulcanized rubber roller, anti-static gun,... they all leave something behind. Reminds of your posts about the Watts dust bug and Wookie's post about using an anti-static arm and brush. I wonder if static may be the real issue.

 

[lovinthehd]

Gotta ask, you already have an existing collection of vinyl to play?

 

[davidscott]

This receiver has a phono preamp, so you don't need to buy one.

Needle quality is always important, but the level of quality should be tempered with your expectations, ability to hear small differences and to go along with that, the desire to listen to the small differences, rather than the music itself.

As someone who has sold audio equipment for close to 50 years, I get some push back when I post comments like "At some point, don't people just want to listen to the music instead of the equipment?". Don't fall into the trap of searching for 'the best' of anything, look for something that won't break the bank. For the $500 you mentioned, you can buy a turntable and cartridge that's very good and should last a long time but from working for audio stores that serviced equipment, I would recommend that the turntable be simple, rather than complicated. I have a complicated turntable and if the electronics fail, it will just be a somewhat nice-looking paperweight.

I don't have any hands-on experience with this brand, but have read many good reviews about the products and company.

Turntables

Critically acclaimed turntables for vinyl lovers and everyday listeners. Learn more about the Orbit Turntable and our design philosophy.

uturnaudio.com

I agree with what highfigh said. If I was currently looking into an entry level turntable I would probably look at UTurn. I never owned one, but it's US made, and they get good reviews.

 

[TLS Guy]

I fall asleep to music sometimes so auto-lift is nice to avoid the needle tracing the run out groove. I still plan to get a Tru-lift but it's almost the price of a starter table. It has a hair trigger so the pressure on the stylus should be negligible. I understand the concern over standard automatics though especially with high compliance cartridges.

I'm still trying to find the best cleaning remedy. I have the standard fabric cleaning pad which can be used wet or dry, a carbon fibre brush, unvulcanized rubber roller, anti-static gun,... they all leave something behind. Reminds of your posts about the Watts dust bug and Wookie's post about using an anti-static arm and brush. I wonder if static may be the real issue.

I think static is over rated unless you don't have a conductive mat. My vintage turntables have carbon mixed in with the rubber. I have not had static be a problem.

The answer to silent discs, is scrupulous record care. Once you foul a disc there is no easy answer. Cecil Watts showed that ALL fluids make the problem worse.
.
So:-

Don't put you fingers on the grooves.

Just have the disc on the turntable when in play.

Always have an inner sleeve. Make sure you put the record in the sleeve right after playing. Then put the sleeve in the jacket, so that the sleeve opening is 90 degrees to the jacket opening.

Dry clean only. I use a HUNT E.D.A. brush if there is any visible dust, which is seldom. It looks as if the are made by Music Hall now, but this is identical to mine.

I use the Cecil E. Watts Dust Bug for EVERY playing and have done for over 60 years. That is the only one that works, and there is data supporting that.

Those rules have worked for me.

If you have a fouled disc, only professional disc washers like the Keith Monks really work. The Keith Monks is the "Rolls Royce" of disc washers.

The best plan is to keep your discs in good condition so you don't have to use a discwasher. The washers that work use wet and vacuuming.

Lastly play in a dust free environment. That means no smokers.

Maybe you have noticed, but ALL my turntables are behind closed doors, and always have been. You don't want the discs to play open to the room.

 

[whodunit68]

Guys there is some really terrific feedback here....well, at least the spirit of the responses is. I don't know if the the recommendations are as I'm too inexperienced.

The same names, more or less, are in the top five under $500...U-Turn and Pro-Ject are almost always there, along with Audio-Technica, followed by Fluance, Rega, and sometimes Denon.

While I was going through all these lists, there were variances in the recommended models due to various factors. Some of those factors I didn't pay attention to because I'm just a homeowner regular guy with a regular house and a regular car (any Dennis Leary fans?).

The very first reply was very spot on....there are some subtleties and I don't care about them. That's why I won't overanalyze.

I'm just buying a thing for now which may turn into something more but just to enjoy and is decent quality for the money.

Thanks!

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[Eppie]

Guys there is some really terrific feedback here....well, at least the spirit of the responses is. I don't know if the the recommendations are as I'm too inexperienced.

The same names, more or less, are in the top five under $500...U-Turn and Pro-Ject are almost always there, along with Audio-Technica, followed by Fluance, Rega, and sometimes Denon.

While I was going through all these lists, there were variances in the recommended models due to various factors. Some of those factors I didn't pay attention to because I'm just a homeowner regular guy with a regular house and a regular car (any Dennis Leary fans?).

The very first reply was very spot on....there are some subtleties and I don't care about them. That's why I won't overanalyze.

I'm just buying a thing for now which may turn into something more but just to enjoy and is decent quality for the money.

Thanks!

Sent from my KB2007 using Tapatalk

The brands you listed are decent and come with a good cartridge so I'd say it's just down to aesthetics and pricing now.

 

[Eppie]

I have $1,000 to drop on a tt. System is currently a Darlington MM6 > Willsenton R8 > Tekton Perfect SET 12". Started with a AT LP120 with VM95E cart, it has seemed like a great starter table, and will hang around as a backup.

I think I'm looking for new or used (to maximize my cash's potential).

Want it to sound as good as this money can buy (I know the cart is a big part of that). Want to be able to switch cartridges easily. I like the cuing light, but guess I could live without one. I like the way S arms look, but are they better or worse than straight? Dust cover is a must. No internal preamp needed or wanted. An auto stop would be nice. Full auto not necessary. Must be easy to set-up and adjust.

Can you help me narrow my initial search down?

I think you'll get the biggest gain from a better cartridge. Something like an Ortofon 2M Blue at minimum. The 2M Bronze is $500 US which only leaves $500 for the table. I would not consider the 2M Black on a table of that quality. If you're happy with the LP120 you should consider changing just the cartridge and see if you like the result. If you want to stick with Audio Technica, a step up would be the AT-LP7 but in the $1,000 range I would be looking at a Rega Planar 2, or for a more traditional design something from Music Hall. The removable headshell makes the search more difficult though. The Planar 2 does not have a removable headshell and neither does the U-Turn Orbit Theory or Project Debut Pro. If you need the removable headshell you may be restricted to certain brands like AT or can look in the used market. Thorens has the TD202 but the included AT95E cart is no better than what you have now, so be sure to compare cartridges if included.

 

[Mikado463]

Gotta ask, you already have an existing collection of vinyl to play?

back to the 'original' Op's thread , lovin asked a very good question that I did not see answered ? For if you don't have a collection of Lp's I see no rationale reason to start now, regardless of a small $500 expenditure or not. I guarantee you that $$ could be better spent elsewhere in your kit !

 

[whodunit68]

back to the 'original' Op's thread , lovin asked a very good question that I did not see answered ? For if you don't have a collection of Lp's I see no rationale reason to start now, regardless of a small $500 expenditure or not. I guarantee you that $$ could be better spent elsewhere in your kit !

Apologies, I missed it. Thank you for pointing it out. You are correct it was not answered previously. I do not currently have any vinyl but it’s a gift the TT).


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[whodunit68]

Apologies, I missed it. Thank you for pointing it out. You are correct it was not answered previously. I do not currently have any vinyl but it’s a gift the TT).


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Where else would you suggest? It’s my wife and she’s open.


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[Mikado463]

Where else would you suggest? It’s my wife and she’s open.


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Well, for starters, the fact that you mentioned a TT suggest an interest in 2 channel music. So, with no LP's to start with what do you do currently ? Stream ?, CD/SACD ?.

When it comes to music, ones L/R speakers are priority #1 along with the environment in which they reside.

 

[whodunit68]

Well, for starters, the fact that you mentioned a TT suggest an interest in 2 channel music. So, with no LP's to start with what do you do currently ? Stream ?, CD/SACD ?.

When it comes to music, ones L/R speakers are priority #1 along with the environment in which they reside.

Now you’ve opened a can of worms .
We currently don’t have a great environment. It’s an open living room in a relatively small home (about a 2k sq ft home).

However, we are planning on building a great environment and assembling pieces to test out whether or not we will enjoy this as much as we think. So our $3k investment is essentially a year long rental (hoping for decent secondary market for beginner equipment in great shape when we are ready).

So while some of this money will be considered by some as throwaway, we consider it an investment before we spend much bigger bucks on a more sophisticated system in a dedicated HT environment.

Make sense?


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[lovinthehd]

Building a vinyl collection isn't inexpensive, gifted tt or no. Personally I still have my collected vinyl and a tt (have had the tt 38 years now) but if I were starting fresh it wouldn't be with vinyl....unless you just like fussing with old technology and like the form factor of vinyl particularly and want to pay more for music generally. Some relish that, but I find it more a nostalgia trip and play it rarely (and haven't bought new vinyl in almost 30 years). I did grow up collecting vinyl, it was the main form of distribution but I changed over to cd/digital for the most part.

What are the particular speaker/sub models you have now? As was said, speakers are going to be the most important thing in a playback system. Not just the L/R altho in a 2ch playback system they would be the most important. I like multich audio both in music and movies myself, so all the speakers count, altho the main content will still be up front with the mains. Easier to start with good stuff and keep it....easier and cheaper in the long run.....but if you're on the fence with home audio altogether....

 

[Mikado463]

Now you’ve opened a can of worms .
We currently don’t have a great environment. It’s an open living room in a relatively small home (about a 2k sq ft home).

However, we are planning on building a great environment and assembling pieces to test out whether or not we will enjoy this as much as we think. So our $3k investment is essentially a year long rental (hoping for decent secondary market for beginner equipment in great shape when we are ready).

So while some of this money will be considered by some as throwaway, we consider it an investment before we spend much bigger bucks on a more sophisticated system in a dedicated HT environment.

Make sense?


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Ok, so that means you currently don't listen to music ?

 

[whodunit68]

Building a vinyl collection isn't inexpensive, gifted tt or no. Personally I still have my collected vinyl and a tt (have had the tt 38 years now) but if I were starting fresh it wouldn't be with vinyl....unless you just like fussing with old technology and like the form factor of vinyl particularly and want to pay more for music generally. Some relish that, but I find it more a nostalgia trip and play it rarely (and haven't bought new vinyl in almost 30 years). I did grow up collecting vinyl, it was the main form of distribution but I changed over to cd/digital for the most part.

What are the particular speaker/sub models you have now? As was said, speakers are going to be the most important thing in a playback system. Not just the L/R altho in a 2ch playback system they would be the most important. I like multich audio both in music and movies myself, so all the speakers count, altho the main content will still be up front with the mains. Easier to start with good stuff and keep it....easier and cheaper in the long run.....but if you're on the fence with home audio altogether....

I hear you about starting over with old tech. No nostalgia here so I’d be just fine either way. In my original post I included what we have now: 2 SVS sealed subs (2000s), Emotiva LCR, 2 book stand Emotivas, Sony 85” Q90 (I know that’s not audio but adding it anyway), and Onkyo receiver (6050).


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