Equipment for Focal speakers

[mono-bloc]

Firstly I don't own in-wall [ but for a better description ] speakers, Have have no idea how you should power them. What I do know, if you want to power those designs forget all about AVR's no one in there right mind would ever use such rubbish.. Most Audio forums WBF and AS to name a couple have no use and never ever deal with the AVR brigade . Really if you must use an integrated amp then Primare or Redgum would be the minimum, Both will handle a 2 ohm load without any troubles. Off cause anyone with a big name speaker Magico, Rockport, YG, and the top of the range Focal, all go with pre-amp and mono-bloc's its the excepted way. Some brands come with external cross-overs, the likes of MBL, Gyphon, and Clarisys and the Magico M9 Would anyone in there right mind use anything less then Pre-power combo's.

 

[PENG]

Why do the best speakers require power amps? Isn’t focal a top brand .. I run Klipsch any amp can power them .

It depends on your definition of "Best". In most cases, people may associate that with expensive, full range floor standing speakers in the price range of something like $20,000 and up.

In those cases, they usually will have large, such as multiple 8" woofers, relatively large mid range drivers and have recommended amplifier power of 50 to 500 W or more. So simply by that indicator, one would naturally stay away from AVRs and integrated amps. Entry level to mid range integrated amps are often stripped down AVRs, it is hard to find one that has the juice for the likes of Focal Aria, Kanta 3-way large towers, let alone the higher models such as the Supra and Utopia.

That said, someone like me who is silly enough to use medium large towers such as my Focal Electra that dips to 3.5 ohm, recommended 40-300 W, there is no problem driving it with any AVRs such as the X3400H. In fact, I tried mine with my DIY Passlab 5 W amp and they sounded fine, sitting from about 8-9 ft.

So again, it depends on your usage, anyone who told you your AVR cannot drive your 4 ohm nominal speakers are just offering you their opinions based on their understanding. Yes it is always better to use separate power amps, all else being equal, but all else are not always equal. Unless money, space, convenience etc. are no object, each case needs to be properly assessed.

 

[Sujain14]

Any suggestions on Buckeye amps. Hows there response. Trying to compare them to ATI and Parasound Prize difference is considerable

 

[Swerd]

Any suggestions on Buckeye amps. Hows there response. Trying to compare them to ATI and Parasound Prize difference is considerable.

Buckeye amps might work well for your speakers. They are rated at 2, 4, and 8 ohms. The amps with the various Hypex NCore amp modules that I've heard in action (with different speakers) were excellent. They were powerful and had no noticeable hum or noise.

I can't promise that they are the solution for your speakers, but I agree that you should look into them.

 

[PENG]

Any suggestions on Buckeye amps. Hows there response. Trying to compare them to ATI and Parasound Prize difference is considerable

Two years ago I replaced my Parasound A21 with the USD 680 Buckeyeamp. Very happy with it, no regret whatsoever. With a quiet USB fan, it could be as powerful or even more so than the 250/400 W Parasound amp. Highly recommended!

 

[Kingnoob]

It depends on your definition of "Best". In most cases, people may associate that with expensive, full range floor standing speakers in the price range of something like $20,000 and up.

In those cases, they usually will have large, such as multiple 8" woofers, relatively large mid range drivers and have recommended amplifier power of 50 to 500 W or more. So simply by that indicator, one would naturally stay away from AVRs and integrated amps. Entry level to mid range integrated amps are often stripped down AVRs, it is hard to find one that has the juice for the likes of Focal Aria, Kanta 3-way large towers, let alone the higher models such as the Supra and Utopia.

That said, someone like me who is silly enough to use medium large towers such as my Focal Electra that dips to 3.5 ohm, recommended 40-300 W, there is no problem driving it with any AVRs such as the X3400H. In fact, I tried mine with my DIY Passlab 5 W amp and they sounded fine, sitting from about 8-9 ft.

So again, it depends on your usage, anyone who told you your AVR cannot drive your 4 ohm nominal speakers are just offering you their opinions based on their understanding. Yes it is always better to use separate power amps, all else being equal, but all else are not always equal. Unless money, space, convenience etc. are no object, each case needs to be properly assessed.

Yeah I can’t dream of affording said speakers I’m just guessing they’re hard to power due to immense size and weight and if someone can afford 20k speakers what’s a 10k amp?? I need another car before high end speakers and no jobs here I can find will pay me anything but pennys low wages . I need work experience first before ever getting paid much that’s capitalism. Nothing I can do to change anything expensive gear is for the rich .

 

[Verdinut]

Yeah I can’t dream of affording said speakers I’m just guessing they’re hard to power due to immense size and weight and if someone can afford 20k speakers what’s a 10k amp?? I need another car before high end speakers and no jobs here I can find will pay me anything but pennys low wages . I need work experience first before ever getting paid much that’s capitalism. Nothing I can do to change anything expensive gear is for the rich .

Bigger speakers, contrarily to what you believe, are usually more sensitive than bookshelf speakers. If they weigh more because of heavier magnets, larger cones and baskets, that makes them even more efficient.

 

[mono-bloc]

In those cases, they usually will have large, such as multiple 8" woofers, relatively large mid range drivers and have recommended amplifier power of 50 to 500 W or more. So simply by that indicator, one would naturally stay away from AVRs and integrated amps

It's a bit like comparing a Golf Buggy to a Ram Truck. One struggles, one hardly tick's over. There really is nothing special about multiply power amps. It really is just a progression along the journey. Most start with an AVR, then progress to an Integrated, Then go to pre-power combo. Ending up with single channel mono-bloc's living next to your speakers. Which in most cases simply tick over, No strain, never breaking a sweat.

Entry level to mid range integrated amps are often stripped down AVRs,

In some cases that might well be true, But when you get into the higher price range models and makes ,, things take a different turn. Rotels RA 1592 is one such model as is Michi, [At a much higher price range } Devialet , Krell, Luxman, ETC, ETC. In some cases the sky's the limit. But the higher priced brands and models are not for Jo Average, and in some cases the country's marketing them have little to zero tax laws. And this is where the MBL, Gryphon, Tad, Goldmond, Rockports of this world find homes.

 

[everettT]

Yeah I can’t dream of affording said speakers I’m just guessing they’re hard to power due to immense size and weight and if someone can afford 20k speakers what’s a 10k amp?? I need another car before high end speakers and no jobs here I can find will pay me anything but pennys low wages . I need work experience first before ever getting paid much that’s capitalism. Nothing I can do to change anything expensive gear is for the rich .

Note that there are many "audiophiles" who power their 40k speakers with a 20k 25w tube amp. The room and listening habits should dictate what amplification after the speaker load is considered.

 

[mono-bloc]

audiophiles" who power their 40k speakers with a 20k 25w tube amp.

Yes, But it's the quality of the 25 watts that count

 

[PENG]

Yes, But it's the quality of the 25 watts that count

Not only that, the more important part is the speaker's sensitivity, desired spl by the listener and his distance from the speakers regardless of the cost of the speakers. A $1000 bookshelf speaker that has sensitivity of 83 dB/2.83V/m, 4 ohm nominal, may be harder to drive by a 25 W amp that has the best 25 W quality than a $40,000 speaker that has sensitivity 93 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal with dips to 3.5 ohm sitting 10 ft from the speaker. Sort of @Verdinut 's point too.

Obviously you know that very well, my comments are more for @Kingnoob .

 

[ski2xblack]

What about using a transformer, similarly as was used with low impedance, amp busting electrostats over the years?

(It's a shot in the dark, probably a long shot at that, but if the load of those speakers could be increased via a transformer it may be cheaper than sourcing an arc-welder capable amplifier.)

 

[Sujain14]

Suggestions on AV R or preamp /amp combo for 7.2.4 setup with 6 inceiling speakers for bar area. Aim is to achieve tie in all speakers if or when needed occasionally. So want to achieve same audio output in all the speakers (Main theater + Distributive audio)

Amps which support atleast 11.2 or 11.4
Looked at Anthem MRX 1140 heard variable report on it. Also looking at Sony ES 7000 or Denon 8500
Plan to use Zone 2 preout to amp for distributive audio (6 IC speakers in bar area). Question it doesnot play Digital output so will the AVR DAC work for same audio as it is RCA preout for zone 2. Or any other suggestiond to achieve that

 

[PENG]

Suggestions on AV R or preamp /amp combo for 7.2.4 setup with 6 inceiling speakers for bar area. Aim is to achieve tie in all speakers if or when needed occasionally. So want to achieve same audio output in all the speakers (Main theater + Distributive audio)

Amps which support atleast 11.2 or 11.4
Looked at Anthem MRX 1140 heard variable report on it. Also looking at Sony ES 7000 or Denon 8500
Plan to use Zone 2 preout to amp for distributive audio (6 IC speakers in bar area). Question it doesnot play Digital output so will the AVR DAC work for same audio as it is RCA preout for zone 2. Or any other suggestiond to achieve that

If you need the so called 11.4 (that means 4 independent subwoofer outputs), the Anthem cannot do that. My recommendation is the Denon AVR-X4800H, or Marantz Cinema 40 if you are in Europe or Asia because in North America you have to pay a fortune for the Marantz for some silly reasons. Denon 8500 is a flagship class AVR, but unless you can get a very deep discount and can get a brand new one with full warranty, you will be better off going with the AVR-X4800H that has the latest features (such as ability to use Dirac Live, and 4 independent subouts) that the 8500 does not have.

 

[Sujain14]

Hi everyone
I am following up on my previous post about Focal speakers. I will like to bring to your attention few points. Speakers 1000 series LCR are awesome with very good response. I actually used REW software to calibrate them. I initially had Sony STR 7000ES but i think it has lot of problems let alone hissing and buzzing. I spoke to sony it seems they are aware and they told me to turn off their 360 SS software. I have planned to return it . I am looking at Marantz Cinema 30. I also have Parasound A31 to drive front three. Just few points on focal speakers as everyone here have told me they are garbage. I beg to differ infact my AV installer he was initially skeptical and after callibration and adjustment he not only like he offered to other customers. He also mentioned Erin’s analysis and primarily deals with Triad Kef and so on.
So i want to say that most of the responses seem very technical but are ears can be a better guide. To check the parameters I did get evaluated by another installer and they were also surprised by what online data and their readings showed. I will share the data sheets though.
Lastly if anyone has issues with new Sony reciever. Please share

 

[Deckard71]

Focal doesn't give a damn much about impedance curves and the phase angles. They don't have competent loudspeaker designers nor engineers. But money and looks are the rulers. As I said that many years ago at an AV show in Montreal, it's name should be F*ckAll.

hahaha Focal, one of the few brands that designs and manufactures their speakers entirely… does not have designers or engineers…

And the other guy who says those speakers are a “disgrace”…. Look at his horrible “room”, what a disgrace. Speakers poorly inserted in the wall and separated by less than 2 meters in a big ugly room. Not to talk about his taste in decoration..

In this forum there is a constant mood for trying to make people feel miserable about their equipment. Focal are great speakers, don’t listen to these sad people

 

[Deckard71]

I designed them at my wife's request. I don't buy speakers, just drivers and crossover parts.

And you feel proud of this horrendous set up?

This is the perfect example of why sometimes you’d better pay professionals to help you (technically and aesthetically)

 

[isolar8001]

And you feel proud of this horrendous set up?

This is the perfect example of why sometimes you’d better pay professionals to help you (technically and aesthetically)

Aren't you a little old to be acting so childish ??
Have a little rest and think about what you said and who you are sparring with concerning these matters.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi everyone
I am following up on my previous post about Focal speakers. I will like to bring to your attention few points. Speakers 1000 series LCR are awesome with very good response. I actually used REW software to calibrate them. I initially had Sony STR 7000ES but i think it has lot of problems let alone hissing and buzzing. I spoke to sony it seems they are aware and they told me to turn off their 360 SS software. I have planned to return it . I am looking at Marantz Cinema 30. I also have Parasound A31 to drive front three. Just few points on focal speakers as everyone here have told me they are garbage. I beg to differ infact my AV installer he was initially skeptical and after callibration and adjustment he not only like he offered to other customers. He also mentioned Erin’s analysis and primarily deals with Triad Kef and so on.
So i want to say that most of the responses seem very technical but are ears can be a better guide. To check the parameters I did get evaluated by another installer and they were also surprised by what online data and their readings showed. I will share the data sheets though.
Lastly if anyone has issues with new Sony reciever. Please share

Most audiophiles will buy either Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha. These are much bigger companies or at least companies who will put a lot more money and resources into R&D (less bugs) and customer support (faster and better repair service).

Less people will buy Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo, Integra, and Anthem. Anthem seems to be more favorable than Sony from what I’ve seen on AH. Sony is a huge company, but they seem to put most of their money into the video department and probably a lot less into their audio department.

You already have your speakers installed. They sound great to you, which is salient. No need to impress anyone else at this point.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And you feel proud of this horrendous set up?

This is the perfect example of why sometimes you’d better pay professionals to help you (technically and aesthetically)

I hate these fireplaces. But what could TLS Guy do if his wife insisted on them?

I believe your response was only because of what TLS Guy said. But I see your point. Just because we love our systems (aesthetically and technically and subjectively) doesn’t mean that everyone in the world agrees.

We all may prefer our own systems over most other systems.