The never ending rabbit hole....What Avr would you recommend for my setup? Marantz, Denon, Sony, Anthem, Yamaha, Integra, Emotiva or??????

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, audio is generally a harmless hobby but I won't call myself an audiophile because of the rampant ludicrous believes so many have and espouses with infallible conviction despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It's a cancer to our hobby.

But as @PENG wrote above my issue is when those opinions are stated as facts, contrary to all scientific evidence.

Definitely a two-way street. Agreed. We can state our personal beliefs/opinions and not offend others. True.

I believe that amps/preamps/DAC don’t have a sound signature of their own. But others can disagree. It’s cool.

 

[Swerd]

If someone gives an opinion, that's great. It is when people stated such opinions as though they were facts, or making claims that clearly defy logic, then, to borrow TSLG's "Silence is not an option". That seems a little extreme for me, and I often took the silence option. More often, I would just say a few things that I felt may help others not be misled and moved on when things turned too negative to respond further.

I agree with what PENG (and TLS Guy) said. An opinion, so stated, is one thing. But when people state opinions as though they were facts, or make highly unusual claims, silence is not an option.

I like to take this idea one step farther. AudioHolics is an audio forum, where many gather to learn something about home audio. Home audio has unfortunately been riddled over the years with misinformation, often presented as if it's the truth. One of the best features of AudioHolics is the stand it takes to puncture misinformation.

Occasionally people show up here with a head full of such ideas, and present their opinions as true facts, while failing to present any evidence to support their opinions. Even worse, some people take offense if their opinions are challenged.

Because AH strives to debunk audio misinformation, these same people should be ready for such challenges. Unusual claims require unusual evidence in support.

 

[PENG]

Definitely a two-way street. Agreed. We can state our personal beliefs/opinions and not offend others. True.

I believe that amps/preamps/DAC don’t have a sound signature of their own. But others can disagree. It’s cool.

Yep, people disagree all the time and it would be great if all be cool about disagreeing.

 

[Danzilla31]

I guess my electronic engineering degree doesn't mean anything either

Look man I work in psychiatric nursing and the most important thing we learn in there is customer service.

So you came to us needing some help. Our customer service to you was to tell you that your ears are unreliable and the data says this and if we double blind stuff it should tell you that. Basically trying to tell you how you are mistaken and you should just stick with this or that.

From what I can tell we have given you poor customer service and for that I apologize

This is something that has been pissing me off for a long time. We have article after article stating that this hobby needs to grow. And I've seen time after time newcomers come in and get pissed off because they're basic questions aren't being answered and we hit them up so much with the science they feel talked down to and then they get defensive and they leave.

How about we just try and answer his f$&cking questions and let him know if he likes the Marantz 50 if the Marantz 40 is worth it to upgrade to?

Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the numbers we forget that it comes across just as abrasive when you hit someonet upside the head with the facts as much as audiophiles spooling this 5000 dollar cable sounds better then this 100 dollar one nonsense. Sometimes facts do care about your feelings no pun intended.

Some of us could work on our bedside manner in here to be honest. Do you think it helps my psych patient to start off our relationship telling him he's wrong even if I'm right? No it usually would get me punched in the face. But if I meet his needs and build a good relationship from there if I do need to show them something or give them my viewpoint it usually works a lot better

On that note I will try my best to answer your question. I'm going to look up your 2 sets of JBL speakers and I might have a couple quick questions about your room and seating distances to help me better answer if you don't mind

 

[Danzilla31]

So, I'm looking to purchase a new AVR and I'm overwhelmed by the choices. I'm hoping for some advice to help guide my decision. I was previously using a Denon AVRX4700, which I sold to replace it with the new Marantz C50. However, after a month, I decided to return the C50 and consider the C40 instead. The Marantz was a significant upgrade from the Denon in terms of both looks and sound quality.

The Marantz delivered more detailed sound, superior Atmos, and better two-channel music listening, even seeming to provide more power to my 11.2 setup. I'm using a pair of monoblocks for my main JBL L200 speakers, so the two-channel power isn't an issue. Interestingly, I found Audyssey to sound much better in my setup than Dirac, even though I had the option to switch between the two.

My current setup includes 2 JBL L200's for the mains (powered by separate monoblocks), an Emotiva C2+ for the center channel, Emotiva Tzero+ for surround, Emotiva E2+ for rear surround, Emotiva A1 for front and rear Atmos, and 2 SVS PB3000 subs. The new receiver needs to support 11.2, factoring in my separate amps for the mains. I also have another set of mains, JBL L100's, that I'd like to integrate if possible, but it's not a deal-breaker. I have an LG 77" OLED, PS5, APPLE 4K TV, and Fire Cube TV all newest additions.

I loved the Marantz C50 and wouldn't hesitate to choose the C40 if it could support both the L100's and L200's. Currently, I'm considering the Marantz C40, Marantz SR8015, Anthem MRX 1140, Yamaha RX-A8A, Sony AZ7000ES, Integra DRX8.4, Emotiva basX MR1, and possibly the Denon AVR6700 (if someone can assure me it sounds better than the AVR4700 and on par with the c40/50). I'd like to have 4K 120Hz support, but I can do without it if the sound quality is substantially better on a model without it. If there is a model not listed let me know I am open to suggestions. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

So are you talking about the L200 masters and the L100 classics? Wow man those are some nice nice speakers great choice! I'm jealous lol

Do you mind letting me know what your seating distances are?

What volume levels you listen to?

Are you mostly movies mostly music or an even split between both?

What is your current setup? Is it a 5.1 or 7.1 or full Dolby atmos setup with like 11 speakers or more?

How do you plan on integrating the L100's will the L200's be your main front 2 and the L100's be the left and right surrounds?

What center channel do you use if any?

How big is the room?

Are you using subs or running them more full-range?

This info would be very helpful if you don't mind providing it

 

[Danzilla31]

So, I'm looking to purchase a new AVR and I'm overwhelmed by the choices. I'm hoping for some advice to help guide my decision. I was previously using a Denon AVRX4700, which I sold to replace it with the new Marantz C50. However, after a month, I decided to return the C50 and consider the C40 instead. The Marantz was a significant upgrade from the Denon in terms of both looks and sound quality.

The Marantz delivered more detailed sound, superior Atmos, and better two-channel music listening, even seeming to provide more power to my 11.2 setup. I'm using a pair of monoblocks for my main JBL L200 speakers, so the two-channel power isn't an issue. Interestingly, I found Audyssey to sound much better in my setup than Dirac, even though I had the option to switch between the two.

My current setup includes 2 JBL L200's for the mains (powered by separate monoblocks), an Emotiva C2+ for the center channel, Emotiva Tzero+ for surround, Emotiva E2+ for rear surround, Emotiva A1 for front and rear Atmos, and 2 SVS PB3000 subs. The new receiver needs to support 11.2, factoring in my separate amps for the mains. I also have another set of mains, JBL L100's, that I'd like to integrate if possible, but it's not a deal-breaker. I have an LG 77" OLED, PS5, APPLE 4K TV, and Fire Cube TV all newest additions.

I loved the Marantz C50 and wouldn't hesitate to choose the C40 if it could support both the L100's and L200's. Currently, I'm considering the Marantz C40, Marantz SR8015, Anthem MRX 1140, Yamaha RX-A8A, Sony AZ7000ES, Integra DRX8.4, Emotiva basX MR1, and possibly the Denon AVR6700 (if someone can assure me it sounds better than the AVR4700 and on par with the c40/50). I'd like to have 4K 120Hz support, but I can do without it if the sound quality is substantially better on a model without it. If there is a model not listed let me know I am open to suggestions. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Okay lol a lot of my questions you already answered in your opening post my apologies

So since your using subs for the heavy lifting you have a high output center and your using amplification for the front 2 and I'd imagine your setting a crossover on them to integrate with the subs

I'm not sure that upgrading is going to give you any more then what you already have. Even if the 40 is going to give you more power I know that you know it takes a doubling of power for just a marginal increase in SPL really.

Unless your running those L200s and L100 either full range or at a lower crossover but for that I would buy a 5 channel amp and just drive my front 5 I always do that anyway. Not because I'm going to need it but rather because Id rather have the power and not need it then someday need it and not have it

But even then you can add a 5 channel amp to your Marantz 50 which already has a great preamp section and just let the Marantz drive the rest

They will have identical DSP and room correction modes so your not getting anything different in the sound. So unless the 40 offers you features your just not getting and you already like your Marantz 50 In my opinion I don't think you need to spend the extra coin. Unless you really want to

I do like a lot of people on this forum don't believe dacs and such will sound different and I believe in my opinion any Reciever in pure direct double blind tested I probably couldn't tell the difference

HOWEVER. I do believe that DSP and room EQ and the room itself and the speakers and how difficult they can be to drive in a particular room can all make a huge impact on the sound.

I owned the Marantz 6015 loved it. Loved it's sound with DSP engaged. For music and movies. If you are enjoying your Marantz you should stay with them. They have a good history of customer service. Stand by they're warranties and most importantly they're products are usually bug free and work exactly the way they are supposed to. And they have good room EQ especially now that they offer both Dirac and Audyssey.

I use my Yamaha CX-a5200 that's in that room now. It too has great DSP.

And my new processor in my theater the Monoprice HTP-1 I'm head over heels for. Because the WEB UI is amazing the DSP and Upmixers are the best I've ever had in my opinion. It gives me 5 independent not parallel sub inputs that all can be aligned and corrected individually before I sum them together. A big deal. Also the customization the HTP-1 gives me is off the chain

The point I'm making is I loved each Reciever for different reasons. You just need to find out if you have enough reasons to justify the extra cost in upgrading to the 40.

Good luck on your decision!

 

[snakeeyes]

I’m in no rush for the latest AVR until the prices come down. Such as a new model comes out and the prior model goes on a great sale price. It’s been a while since that was the case. LOL

 

[Danzilla31]

My apologies to the OP. Misread your first post sounds like you already have the Marantz 40. I would say nothing your considering in my opinion is going to give you a noticeable upgrade in audio quality. To drive those JBLs if your concerned about the Reciever hitting it's limits Id instead invest in a 5 channel robust amp

 

[PENG]

How about we just try and answer his f$&cking questions and let him know if he likes the Marantz 50 if the Marantz 40 is worth it to upgrade to?

There were the typical questions and answers back and forth a little, but some serious suggestions have been made including what you suggested above. In fact, aside from perhaps a little sarcasm (in reaction to one of his posts) on my part in an earlier post, I did say this in my last post, and that did not get

My post#44 (I actually made the C40 recommendation twice):

I brought up the 4800 because you seem interested in the C40, so I thought you might want to consider the 4800 as well, for reasons I mentioned. If not, then I would say the C40 seems like a good choice for you.

In general, I would tend to suggest Denon's equivalent mainly because of the typical price advantage (in North America) it offers, but would always respect people's belief, or opinion that the Marantz comparable models are better.

Some of us could work on our bedside manner in here to be honest. Do you think it helps my psych patient to start off our relationship telling him he's wrong even if I'm right? No it usually would get me punched in the face. But if I meet his needs and build a good relationship from there if I do need to show them something or give them my viewpoint it usually works a lot better

Agreed, though it goes both ways.

 

[PENG]

My apologies to the OP. Misread your first post sounds like you already have the Marantz 40. I would say nothing your considering in my opinion is going to give you a noticeable upgrade in audio quality. To drive those JBLs if your concerned about the Reciever hitting it's limits Id instead invest in a 5 channel robust amp

The thread is getting long fast, so may be something was said later on but I don't think you misread his first post, in which he said he was considering the C40, so, just considering.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...if he likes the Marantz 50....is the Marantz 40 worth it?

I think if I were to put myself in his shoes and I really liked the Cinema 50, then yes, I think the Cinema 40 would be worth it.

 

[Danzilla31]

The thread is getting long fast, so may be something was said later on but I don't think you misread his first post, in which he said he was considering the C40, so, just considering.

Okay thanks @PENG I wasn't sure appreciate you

 

[Danzilla31]

I think if I were to put myself in his shoes and I really liked the Cinema 50, then yes, I think the Cinema 40 would be worth it.

Honestly I wouldn't blame him either. If you can trade back the 50 and as they say "For a few dollars more" why not?

I can't take anything material with me and life's too short. I say in this hobby f it if you earned it and want to spend it I'll gladly help you with that. Let's have some fun and buy some speakers and sh$t!!!!

 

[PENG]

Okay thanks @PENG I wasn't sure appreciate you

Appreciate what you are trying, we all can do better, and do our part to support this nice hobby.

 

[PENG]

I think if I were to put myself in his shoes and I really liked the Cinema 50, then yes, I think the Cinema 40 would be worth it.

That was exactly my thought too, otherwise I might have suggested the MRX1140.

 

[Danzilla31]

Appreciate what you are trying, we all can do better, and do our part to support this nice hobby.

Hey I'm not perfect either and I just want to say you do a great job trying to welcome new members. I still remember how we first became friends in this hobby. When I PMed you about having enough wattage to buy those Rythmik FV25HP's for my first house remember how you helped me calculate if I needed another outlet run? I'll always appreciate the help you give me.

That's why I think he should buy the 40. I did the responsible thing yuck barf gross word and didn't buy them and know Rythmik doesn't make them anymore. I will always always always always deeply regret that.

So I say go for it!!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Honestly I wouldn't blame him either. If you can trade back the 50 and as they say "For a few dollars more" why not?

I can't take anything material with me and life's too short. I say in this hobby f it if you earned it and want to spend it I'll gladly help you with that. Let's have some fun and buy some speakers and sh$t!!!!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey I'm not perfect either and I just want to say you do a great job trying to welcome new members. I still remember how we first became friends in this hobby. When I PMed you about having enough wattage to buy those Rythmik FV25HP's for my first house remember how you helped me calculate if I needed another outlet run? I'll always appreciate the help you give me.

That's why I think he should buy the 40. I did the responsible thing yuck barf gross word and didn't buy them and know Rythmik doesn't make them anymore. I will always always always always deeply regret that.

So I say go for it!!!!

Honestly, I don't specialize in rabbit holes. That guy I have a strong feeling was putting one over, or attempting to. Had been through a hundred pairs of speakers, so he claimed. Come on Dan sharpen up your BS alarms! May be you have been conditioned by all these expert manipulators you deal with daily.

 

[lovinthehd]

Honestly, I don't specialize in rabbit holes. That guy I have a strong feeling was putting one over, or attempting to. Had been through a hundred pairs of speakers, so he claimed. Come on Dan sharpen up your BS alarms! May be you have been conditioned by all these expert manipulators you deal with daily.

And as many different amps/pre-amps too....he said he's also an amateur tech with at least 30 such units waiting for repair, and has likely listened to several hundred combinations of electronics (and with so many speakers must be truly an insane amount of time comparing), yet none were blinded or even ABX it seems. He's an ee but believes in audible differences due brand and not just brand, but model. I'm outta here in any case, my bs alarm went off early.

 

[Danzilla31]

Honestly, I don't specialize in rabbit holes. That guy I have a strong feeling was putting one over, or attempting to. Had been through a hundred pairs of speakers, so he claimed. Come on Dan sharpen up your BS alarms! May be you have been conditioned by all these expert manipulators you deal with daily.

He probably has listened to a lot of speakers I had before I joined here. Didn't make me an expert but that doesn't mean that I hadn't.

Not only that a lot of new guys will ghost this site before they even come on and already will be defensive towards certain members they notice come at people a certain way. I know I ghosted this site for months before I joined I was that nervous about it. And I definitely picked up on who was easy to talk to and who wasn't

Let me play this out for you.

New guy comes on the forum has an issue stuck on a new reciever for example. Instead of just answering his questions everyone tells him it's all in your head you really can't hear a difference anyway. Which people are correct on this to a degree but new guy doesn't understand

Says well I've listened to this or this or this thought I heard a difference

Then he's told well have you double blind tested this. According to measurements they all sound the same. New guy just really wants to know if it is a necessary switch or if he's okay in buying new item

New guy gets irritated nobody is answering his questions he gets told he is an idiot politely but still an idiot he gets pissed off a back and forth ensues and then we have another new member off the forum telling others about his negative experience with the forum and in this hobby

This happens over and over I can almost predict it down to the tee. What are we ASR where we berate every new guy who doesn't prioritize SINAD numbers the way ASR members worship them? A little unfair to ASR but it does happen on that site and I'm just using it as an over the top example

What is the problem with answering his question going over the options he asked and at the end just politely saying he may not tell a difference and then tell him how he might save money but if not, if he wants to spend it, here's what we think he should buy

If he's a troll we flex our knowledge for new members and give out good info to save money or give out info on new products for members to think about buying. And we look cool doing it. If he's not a troll we got an enthusiastic new member with money to burn in this hobby and while we are having fun with him we can even give him the right knowledge in the process.

It's a win win either way for Audioholics and audio in general for us to start out kind in our approach.

Same as in my job. No matter how the patient acts if I'm positive in my approach it's a win win for me with either outcome positive or negative. And usually it's a better chance for my patient to end up in a win win as well.

It's not that hard to not come across elitist to a new guy or like were talking down on him just beating him down with our knowledge. And we lose nothing by doing this.

Look I can't control what others do on here I wouldn't even think to try but if we don't change the way we come at newbies I'm concerned audio really is going to die off and we'll all just be a few old farts sitting in our echo chamber just chirping at each other

ive seen this same thread played out too many times to know it's not all on the newbie. Like @PENG said earlier it goes both ways. And it happens too much for all of them to be trolls. Which means we have run off some newcomers. I find that bothersome. You guys do what you want. I'm just expressing my concerns here