What makes people belive so much in cables?

[ben_]

My blood pressure is rising, and how can people that in many cases probably are pretty smart (many of them seem to have deep pockets, so i assume they have/had decent careers) be so stupid when it comes to audio?

This is a pretty massive assumption. In fact I would argue that these kinds of people are more likely to suffer from confirmation bias and less likely to have humility about these sorts of things than the "average" person. In fact, I'd go so far to say that this is self-selecting. People who can afford this are inherently also the people most likely to have the kind of sort of blindspots that allow for this kind of thinking.

 

[MrBoat]

The only cable/equipment break-in head I know personally, has to be repeated to always. He has very poor hearing. Even his wife will repeat things other people say to him to actually help move the conversation, and she has been doing this for years. In other words, he won't be hearing a pin drop on a microphone, never mind a table. He misses a great deal of the most sensitive range, even vocals that are directly to him. I have sat there and quietly said: "You can't hear the cable," and he can't hear me saying it. Funnier yet is, he knows he has a hearing problem, but will not let this cable or speaker break-in voodoo go.

Another force at play here is participation bias. They need to make it like they have a hand in why things sound so great instead of giving all the credit to the experts. It's like tweaking a system, even though they don't have the expertise to actually improve upon it otherwise.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Welcome to AH.
If you are into reading and gathering literature on audio related subjects, a mountain has been written:
a partial list
Additional Audio References (tripod.com)

 

[Bobby Bass]

Cables appear to be the most hotly debated topic across online sites. A lot of debate about other equipment but that has specs attached to many reviews. I now look for pictures of equipment to see if the cables touch the floor or are on some type of support. I then know what their thoughts are on cables. My cables touch the floor. I’m more concerned about the rabbits getting into the room and chewing on the cables like the nibbling on the coaxial cable for the TV years ago. Missed most of the Celtics game that night.

 

[Swerd]

Another force at play here is participation bias. They need to make it like they have a hand in why things sound so great instead of giving all the credit to the experts. It's like tweaking a system, even though they don't have the expertise to actually improve upon it otherwise.

I like that term, "participation bias". It reminds me of budding car mechanics I knew in high school. They were self taught, and could be called eager (over eager?) carburetor tinkerers. Except for a few, most had incomplete knowledge of how gas burning piston engines worked. (This was before the days of fuel injection and electronic ignition.) Because it involved teen-aged males, there were plenty of wanna-be followers who tagged along. Those guys stayed away from timing and carburetors, but indulged in tinkering with more visible tweaks such as wider tires, mag wheels, and racing stripes.

I had one friend who decided he had to paint racing stripes on a old beat-up mini-van he drove. He thought it was an obvious joke, until enough of those wanna-be followers asked if he thought the stripes added to the top speed of his van.

Exotic speaker cables are the audio version of racing stripes.

 

[Mikado463]

I now look for pictures of equipment to see if the cables touch the floor or are on some type of support. I then know what their thoughts are on cables.

I had a good chuckle reading your post for years back when I joined the fold a couple of the veterans around here made mock of the fact that my speaker cables were in fact elevated. I am by no means a 'cable diva' ! Little did they know my reasoning was purely practical, makes it much easier to facilitate my anal retentive vacuuming !

So you see , biases work in many different ways

 

[davidscott]

I had a good chuckle reading your post for years back when I joined the fold a couple of the veterans around here made mock of the fact that my speaker cables were in fact elevated. I am by no means a 'cable diva' ! Little did they know my reasoning was purely practical, makes it much easier to facilitate my anal retentive vacuuming !

So you see , biases work in many different ways

Ah a practical reason for cable lifters. And I bet you didn't pay big $$ for them.

 

[Bobby Bass]

I had a good chuckle reading your post for years back when I joined the fold a couple of the veterans around here made mock of the fact that my speaker cables were in fact elevated. I am by no means a 'cable diva' ! Little did they know my reasoning was purely practical, makes it much easier to facilitate my anal retentive vacuuming !

So you see , biases work in many different ways

Makes sense makes it safe for vacuuming and critters

 

[lovinthehd]

While I like the excuse for risers/vacuum thing from a humor point of view....still not too practical for the truly anal cleaning up, you'd still have to move the risers to get the bit under/around them.....and its just easier to move a cable on the ground I think (must admit don't put my cables in places where I need to worry about vacuuming much under them and there's always the nozzle attachment).

 

[BBHT]

I had a good chuckle reading your post for years back when I joined the fold a couple of the veterans around here made mock of the fact that my speaker cables were in fact elevated. I am by no means a 'cable diva' ! Little did they know my reasoning was purely practical, makes it much easier to facilitate my anal retentive vacuuming !

So you see , biases work in many different ways

Haha. I do the same. My cables as much as possible are off the floor...purely for easy of cleaning the floor.

 

[highfigh]

There's a sucker born every minute.
Including in government: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/dc-fits-fleet-of-evs-with-bogus-gadget-promising-60-range-boost/

Good background read for further education on why people keep falling for such nonsense:

Voodoo Science

and the classic Roger Russel's Speaker Wire post:

Speaker Wire

Under the article, I saw a 'promoted comment'-

neil_w
I used a green Sharpie on my charge contacts and was able to double charging speed, so these claims seem completely believable to me.
July 19, 2023 at 5:46 pm

He's making fun of audiopiles! Make him stop!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Under the article, I saw a 'promoted comment'-
neil_w
I used a green Sharpie on my charge contacts and was able to double charging speed, so these claims seem completely believable to me.
July 19, 2023 at 5:46 pm

He's making fun of audiopiles! Make him stop!

It seems that the author of the article, Mr. Gitlit, and the commenter, Mr. Neil W, share a humor style called Sarcasm.

 

[highfigh]

It seems that the author of the article, Mr. Gitlit, and the commenter, Mr. Neil W, share a humor style called Sarcasm.

You must have thought I was serious- that was a reference to the article in the back of Audio Magazine by Julian Hirsch, who wrote that using a green magic marker on the edge of CDs made them sound better, blah, blah, blah.

 

[highfigh]

I forgot to add the best part about the green marker- I went to a local audio shop and I saw an AudioQuest poster, so I commented on their cables being BS, just like the green marker. The guy, who I know from his being one of my customers in the early-'80s, proceeded to explain why the green marker works and at that point, I just grunted before saying "I thought I taught you better".

 

[Hobbit]

Hi,
I am new here, but have had many HT in my life, and it is a big interest of mine.
And usually for fun, i am checking on forums and usually want to scream while i laugh to people that buys 20k ethernet cables, and they can hear a difference.

What makes people belive that digital data can make any difference at all in audio? How can the whole world function with advanced databases and full Datacenters with extreme data transfer speed and accuracy, but when it comes to sound, it is impossible to convince them?

I have tried, others have tried to do it, but it is impossible.

I can get their reasoning in for example speaker cables (make no misstake i use off the shelf speaker cables, and there is no dufference) but when it comes to pure digital data, there is only 2 values, it is either 1 or 0 there is no in between.

They even discuss what optical cable to use instead of ethernet at home. And they can hear a difference in optical cables too.

My blood pressure is rising, and how can people that in many cases probably are pretty smart (many of them seem to have deep pockets, so i assume they have/had decent careers) be so stupid when it comes to audio? Like it is something magic that happens. Have they ever seen a recording studio? What cables they use?

I was just browsing here, and my mind and blood pressure could not take it anymore when i could see the thread about optical cables:

Cables

Interconnects, speaker, digital, power.

forum.psaudio.com

Even "breaking in" optical cables?

Fiber Optic recommendation?

I own several generic CAT5e, 6, 6a and CAT7 cables, as well as Audioquest Pearl and Supra CAT8. They all sound different. Yauhody CAT8 is my favourite of these; a bit chocolatey, organic, with great warmth and power, decent detail and transparency. I have invariably preferred Yauhody over Supra C...

audiophilestyle.com

I have tried to take the discussion there, but that is not "allowed" and i needed to vent and i am sorry it happened to be here. But maybe someone here have any inside information/knowledge of why? How can an optical data cable make the sound "insert some magic Word"? It is impossible.

And how can it be allowed to market for example ethernet cables that sells only on describing what it does for sound? It is false advertising.

I think the main reason is they spent a chunk of money on their systems so why put inexpensive cables on it? From this point on they validate the expensive, and maybe cooler looking cables by believing they sound better. The placebo effect. Then they go online and find a group of people that agree with them to further validate the cost.

You see this in everywhere. Now if they would just admit they bought it for the "cool" factor! I've been guilty of buying the cooler looking version many times. At least if it's not that much more expensive.

 

[Paul DS]

This is a very old article, but I never found the information it contained to be faulty.

https://ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

 

[mtrycrafts]

While I like the excuse for risers/vacuum thing from a humor point of view....still not too practical for the truly anal cleaning up, you'd still have to move the risers to get the bit under/around them.....and its just easier to move a cable on the ground I think (must admit don't put my cables in places where I need to worry about vacuuming much under them and there's always the nozzle attachment).

Not to mention cable sagging between posts. Will the height clear the vacuum cleaner head/brush and wand.

 

[Mikado463]

Will the height clear the vacuum cleaner head/brush and wand.

yes

 

[highfigh]

I went to CEDIA in 2005 and in one of the seminars I was (unfortunately and unnecessarily scheduled to see as an employee) was 'Audio Set Up and Testing', or some such BS. The guy spent the majority of the two hours telling us how cool he and his company were and when it came to speaker cable, said that all should be equal in length. One of the guys I worked with asked if we should coil the excess and hide it in the walls- he said "That's one option". That's two hours I'll never get back......

The BS is at all levels of audio, other than most who are actual engineers. Every EE I have talked with about special cables and AQ were the main one that was specifically named, they looked at me like a dog that didn't understand what it was hearing.

The rule of thumb used to be that cables should cost 10% of the system price. I don't know who made that up but it was adopted as a good way to make a helluva lot of money by dealers who just wanted more and didn't care about how it came. I wouldn't trust a dealer who recommends spending that much on something that has such a small influence on the sound. Obviously,. if the system is $1000, 10% isn't necessarily going to be a deal breaker but in the $100K (or higher) system/group of system design stage, it becomes less sensible.

It's not audio-specific, but AQ has a 6' HDMI cable that was $1500, last time I saw it. Supposed to make the audio better. Really?

 

[davidscott]

Anybody remember the Tice clock back in the 1980s? Plug it into any outlet in the house and your audio system would be transformed. I'm not making this up.