Anthem AVM70 ARC G too Loud in Calibration Process

K

kw5150

Audiophyte
When running the calibration test I am experiencing excessive audio in one pair of speakers in my 7.1.4 room. So loud I feel it is close to blowing the speakers. I'm running all KEF speakers, R700 across the front, but the only pair that have a problem are the KEF Ci200RS-THX that are running with 90db sensitivity as the surround speakers. Also using the AVM-70 with 2 Parasound A52+ (180 watts) amps for the surrounds and atmos and an A31 for the RCL. All connected with XLR from the processor. The AVM and ARC are running the latest version of software. I can't seem to power the surrounds down in the AVM to make any difference once it starts running the ARC. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
When running the calibration test I am experiencing excessive audio in one pair of speakers in my 7.1.4 room. So loud I feel it is close to blowing the speakers. I'm running all KEF speakers, R700 across the front, but the only pair that have a problem are the KEF Ci200RS-THX that are running with 90db sensitivity as the surround speakers. Also using the AVM-70 with 2 Parasound A52+ (180 watts) amps for the surrounds and atmos and an A31 for the RCL. All connected with XLR from the processor. The AVM and ARC are running the latest version of software. I can't seem to power the surrounds down in the AVM to make any difference once it starts running the ARC. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
As far as I know there is nothing you can do about those, high level chirp, except complain to Anthem support and hope that if enough people complain, they may fix it in their future updates.

It is unfortunate that most Anthem users seem to be so loyal, that they think Anthem can do no wrong and don't like to complain unless it is a serious issue.

At least you have speakers that can handle the power, so just wear earmuffs, or sit in tbe next room when doing the calibration.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What level does Anthem use, 75 or 85 dB for chirps?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I did not bother measuring, felt like 85 dB..
That could definitely be on the loud side, I'd start and leave the room or use like you say some headphones/earmuffs to reduce the sound....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
That could definitely be on the loud side, I'd start and leave the room or use like you say some headphones/earmuffs to reduce the sound....
I'll try to measure it this weekend with the Radio Shack meter, hopefully it will be fast enough to get a reasonably accurate reading. If not, I will use REW and the Umik-1.
 
B

Brian Smith

Enthusiast
Search Youtube for this issue. One guy has a driver blown and was getting over 90+ DB. Seems to be an issue with either sensitive speakers or high-powered amps. Really, has Anthem has not acknowledged this issue?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I'll try to measure it this weekend with the Radio Shack meter, hopefully it will be fast enough to get a reasonably accurate reading. If not, I will use REW and the Umik-1.
Meaured it yesterday, looked to be around 85 dB to 90 dB peak, or a little louder.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Search Youtube for this issue. One guy has a driver blown and was getting over 90+ DB. Seems to be an issue with either sensitive speakers or high-powered amps. Really, has Anthem has not acknowledged this issue?
Sensitive speakers or not won't make a difference. If the speaker is less sensitive, the preamp will just increase the output level. Same thing for higher power amp, won't make a difference as long as the amp can ouput high enough to achieve around 85 to 90 dB at the mic position.

I am sure Anthem knows about this. 90 dB should not blow speakers, unless you have very small ones such as satellite speakers.

Anthem probably assume their users have speakers that can handle at least 50 W on short term basis with no risk of being damaged.

Ir only takes a speaker with low sensitivity of say, 85 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal, 4 W to produce 85 dB at 4 meters, or 8 W for 91 dB.

85 dB for the calibration tone is 10 dB higher than Audyssey's, and I think Anthem should lower it to 75 dB, or 80 dB at the most, without sacrificing accuracy. They are not going to do it unless enough people complains. Unfortunately, most Anthem users tend to be are fans, loyal to a fault... Most seem to think Anthem can do no wrong.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Sensitive speakers or not won't make a difference. If the speaker is less sensitive, the preamp will just increase the output level. Same thing for higher power amp, won't make a difference as long as the amp can ouput high enough to achieve around 85 to 90 dB at the mic position.

I am sure Anthem knows about this. 90 dB should not blow speakers, unless you have very small ones such as satellite speakers.

Anthem probably assume their users have speakers that can handle at least 50 W on short term basis with no risk of being damaged.

Ir only takes a speaker with low sensitivity of say, 85 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal, 4 W to produce 85 dB at 4 meters, or 8 W for 91 dB.

85 dB for the calibration tone is 10 dB higher than Audyssey's, and I think Anthem should lower it to 75 dB, or 80 dB at the most, without sacrificing accuracy. They are not going to do it unless enough people complains. Unfortunately, most Anthem users tend to be are fans, loyal to a fault... Most seem to think Anthem can do no wrong.
They’re “magical” even going from one model to the next. :D
 
B

Brian Smith

Enthusiast
Sensitive speakers or not won't make a difference. If the speaker is less sensitive, the preamp will just increase the output level. Same thing for higher power amp, won't make a difference as long as the amp can ouput high enough to achieve around 85 to 90 dB at the mic position.

I am sure Anthem knows about this. 90 dB should not blow speakers, unless you have very small ones such as satellite speakers.

Anthem probably assume their users have speakers that can handle at least 50 W on short term basis with no risk of being damaged.

Ir only takes a speaker with low sensitivity of say, 85 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal, 4 W to produce 85 dB at 4 meters, or 8 W for 91 dB.

85 dB for the calibration tone is 10 dB higher than Audyssey's, and I think Anthem should lower it to 75 dB, or 80 dB at the most, without sacrificing accuracy. They are not going to do it unless enough people complains. Unfortunately, most Anthem users tend to be are fans, loyal to a fault... Most seem to think Anthem can do no wrong.
You wonder what their rationale was for 90db?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You wonder what their rationale was for 90db?
My guess is, ARCG can get better accuracy with the measurements. I think that is a mistake, but in my opinion that's illogical, because a little better accuracy means nothing, relative to inaccuracy associated with many other factors in the process. I know for a fac that Audyssey and Dirac Live do not require such loud level sweep tone, not sure about Trinnov and YPAO but I can imagine they would be that silly.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My guess is, ARCG can get better accuracy with the measurements. I think that is a mistake, but in my opinion that's illogical, because a little better accuracy means nothing, relative to inaccuracy associated with many other factors in the process. I know for a fac that Audyssey and Dirac Live do not require such loud level sweep tone, not sure about Trinnov and YPAO but I can imagine they would be that silly.
YPAO level sounds like Audyssey.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks, it seems that for better or worse, Anthem just has to do things differently, to the ways big dogs do.:D
Might also be possible the guy who designed it has hearing loss and can’t hear the usual 75dB noise or even 80dB.

Hearing loss is another sad story. My dad has hearing loss and now has to spend $4K on his hearing aid devices. :(
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I had a look in the manual about manual setup and its the usual measure the built in test tones at 75dB, same for the others. Has anyone communicated with Anthem about this?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Might also be possible the guy who designed it has hearing loss and can’t hear the usual 75dB noise or even 80dB.

Hearing loss is another sad story. My dad has hearing loss and now has to spend $4K on his hearing aid devices. :(
I hope you got him a hifi hearing aid, though that will likely cost over 7 to 8K. If he is not crazy like us about sound quality then I guess a 4 K device is find as long as it is of good quality with no annoying noise. I would likely consider those hifi hearing device when the time come. To be fair to Anthem, I do think it is a mistake to have the sweep tone so loud at 85 to 90 dB, when it did the sweep for time delay measurements it definitely was louder than 90 dB peak, the duration is not long enough to cause hearing loss unless someone keep doing the calibration all day long and day after day. No one will be that crazy, not even me.

So it is more of an annoying thing, and the only benefit is for better SNR, but that is the silly part, because whatever accuracy they can get, it will be completely erased/offset by other elements such as the mic, mic positioning, room ambient noise, user's errors/imperfection in their procedures etc.

It would be better, if they are really concerned about SNR, that they use a pop up warning that the level is too low, and that's how Dirac does its. That's really not problem because Anthem ARC is custom build for all Anthem AVRs/AVPs, so they have full control of the volume/level output, same as Denon, Marantz, Yamaha and Sony's, so the output level is set regardless of the volume setting. I am sure YPAO works the came way, that the users actually have no control of the sweep tone level regardless.
 
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