The Jan 6 Commission hearings

[John Parks]

Feeling a little butt hurt, John? Or you just like promoting drumphy crap for fun? Where's the baseball bat pic?

It’s politics - of course it’s all in fun! Being pained in the posterior over the games they play or certain orange hued individuals would amount to a pretty sad life.

 

[Swerd]

CNN – Four members of the far-right Proud Boys have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy by a jury in Washington, DC, for their roles to forcibly prevent the peaceful transfer of power from then-President Donald Trump to Joe Biden after the 2020 election.

Defendants Enrique Tarrio – the Proud Boys longtime chairman – Ethan Nordean, Joseph Biggs, Zachary Rehl and Dominic Pezzola faced a range of charges, including three separate conspiracy charges, obstructing the Electoral College vote and tampering with evidence.

The guilty verdict marks the third time that prosecutors have secured convictions for seditious conspiracy in the Justice Department’s historic prosecution of those who breached the US Capitol on 6 January 2021.

I think it's time to stop calling them "far-right Proud Boys". They're now convicted terrorists.

And if they're anyone's boys, they would be Roger Stone's Boys. Enrique Tarrio was a trusted employee of Roger Stone. Stone was the go-between contact between Trump & the Proud Boys, allowing Trump to claim he knew nothing of any plans for a Jan 6 insurrection – a mobster's claim of 'plausible deniability'.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/politics/proud-boys-seditious-conspiracy-verdict/index.html

 

[Dude#1279435]

I think it's time to stop calling them "far-right Proud Boys". They're now convicted terrorists.

And if they're anyone's boys, they would be Roger Stone's Boys. Enrique Tarrio was a trusted employee of Roger Stone. Stone was the go-between contact between Trump & the Proud Boys, allowing Trump to claim he knew nothing of any plans for a Jan 6 insurrection – a mobster's claim of 'plausible deniability'.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/politics/proud-boys-seditious-conspiracy-verdict/index.html

It mentions nothing of Stone's involvement, unless I read this wrong. I'm content with the dereliction of duty.

 

[Dude#1279435]

One odd thing in the article is some of the PB said there was no specific mention of a plot. Yet there is video showing people up in towers and using mics to signal the crowd to the capitol. If there was a plot it had to be very contained.

 

[panteragstk]

One odd thing in the article is some of the PB said there was no specific mention of a plot. Yet there is video showing people up in towers and using mics to signal the crowd to the capitol. If there was a plot it had to be very contained.

People were apparently talking about it on Facebook before the date, so not that contained.

 

[Swerd]

It mentions nothing of Stone's involvement, unless I read this wrong. I'm content with the dereliction of duty.

It's my opinion that Roger Stone has long been involved with such groups as the PBs. And it's also my opinion that Trump uses Stone to avoid any direct linkage to the PBs. Both of them, in my opinion, are about as innocent as a cat, with bird feathers on his face, calmly sitting next to a dead bird, with a 'what dead bird?' expression on his face. Courts may require hard evidence to find them guilty, such as a video of the cat killing the bird … but I don't. Both have a long history of suspicious, highly criminal-like collaboration.

The CNN article didn't mention it, but a Washington Post article mentioned Tarrio's known connection to Roger Stone. I didn't link that article because people can't open it without a subscription. Apparently, Stone trusted his aide Tarrio enough to give him access to his Twitter account. That's the account where Stone, with Tarrio's help, posted a photo of Stone's trial judge with crosshairs drawn over the judge's face. Stone was admonished & warned by that judge during his trial to say or post nothing further about the trial.

But I'm distracting myself. Enrique Tarrio and 3 PB buddies are guilty of 3 charges. No sentences yet, but each charge comes with a possible maximum sentence of 20 years.

 

[Dude#1279435]

It's my opinion that Roger Stone has long been involved with such groups as the PBs. And it's also my opinion that Trump uses Stone to avoid any direct linkage to the PBs. Both of them, in my opinion, are about as innocent as a cat, with bird feathers on his face, calmly sitting next to a dead bird, with a 'what dead bird?' expression on his face. Courts may require hard evidence to find them guilty, such as a video of the cat killing the bird … but I don't. Both have a long history of suspicious, highly criminal-like collaboration.

The CNN article didn't mention it, but a Washington Post article mentioned Tarrio's known connection to Roger Stone. I didn't link that article because people can't open it without a subscription. Apparently, Stone trusted his aide Tarrio enough to give him access to his Twitter account. That's the account where Stone, with Tarrio's help, posted a photo of Stone's trial judge with crosshairs drawn over the judge's face. Stone was admonished & warned by that judge during his trial to say or post nothing further about the trial.

But I'm distracting myself. Enrique Tarrio and 3 PB buddies are guilty of 3 charges. No sentences yet, but each charge comes with a possible maximum sentence of 20 years.

Trump said during his natl debate with Biden: Proud Boys stand back, and stand by. He didn't mean it though.

 

[Mr._Clark]

It's my opinion that Roger Stone has long been involved with such groups as the PBs. And it's also my opinion that Trump uses Stone to avoid any direct linkage to the PBs. Both of them, in my opinion, are about as innocent as a cat, with bird feathers on his face, calmly sitting next to a dead bird, with a 'what dead bird?' expression on his face. Courts may require hard evidence to find them guilty, such as a video of the cat killing the bird … but I don't. Both have a long history of suspicious, highly criminal-like collaboration.

The CNN article didn't mention it, but a Washington Post article mentioned Tarrio's known connection to Roger Stone. I didn't link that article because people can't open it without a subscription. Apparently, Stone trusted his aide Tarrio enough to give him access to his Twitter account. That's the account where Stone, with Tarrio's help, posted a photo of Stone's trial judge with crosshairs drawn over the judge's face. Stone was admonished & warned by that judge during his trial to say or post nothing further about the trial.

But I'm distracting myself. Enrique Tarrio and 3 PB buddies are guilty of 3 charges. No sentences yet, but each charge comes with a possible maximum sentence of 20 years.

Stone reportedly asked his lawyers to try for a second pardon from Trump because Stone was worried about being convicted in connection with January 6.

Assuming the reports are accurate, and assuming the request for a pardon made it to Trump, it's unclear why Trump didn't grant it (Trump is obviously not one to worry about appearances, no matter how slimy they may be). My first thought was that Trump (upon advice from lawyers) wanted Stone to be able to take the 5th and refuse to answer questions to protect Trump. However, prosecutors could grant Stone immunity and force him to cooperate under threat of contempt so that seems like it's probably not the reason (I'll concede that this is highly speculative on my part).

On the other hand, Stone did take the 5th in a deposition by the January 6 committee:

>>>Roger Stone, a staunch ally of former President Donald Trump, met briefly Friday with the House select committee investigating the January 6 riot and asserted his Fifth Amendment rights to every question asked, he said.<<<

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/17/politics/roger-stone-january-6-committee/index.html

As Trump has said, taking the 5th implies guilt:

>>>“So there are five people taking the Fifth Amendment, like you see on the mob, right? You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” . . . “When you have your staff taking the Fifth Amendment, taking the Fifth, so they’re not prosecuted, when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the Fifth, I think it’s disgraceful,” <<<

‘If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?’ Trump’s position on declining to testify has changed over time. (Published 2022)

Over the years, the former president has generally criticized other politicians for taking the Fifth Amendment. But on Wednesday, he invoked the right himself.

www.nytimes.com

If you think I'm saying Trump has a double standard, you would be correct.

 

[lovinthehd]

Stone reportedly asked his lawyers to try for a second pardon from Trump because Stone was worried about being convicted in connection with January 6.

Assuming the reports are accurate, and assuming the request for a pardon made it to Trump, it's unclear why Trump didn't grant it (Trump is obviously not one to worry about appearances, no matter how slimy they may be). My first thought was that Trump (upon advice from lawyers) wanted Stone to be able to take the 5th and refuse to answer questions to protect Trump. However, prosecutors could grant Stone immunity and force him to cooperate under threat of contempt so that seems like it's probably not the reason (I'll concede that this is highly speculative on my part).

On the other hand, Stone did take the 5th in a deposition by the January 6 committee:

>>>Roger Stone, a staunch ally of former President Donald Trump, met briefly Friday with the House select committee investigating the January 6 riot and asserted his Fifth Amendment rights to every question asked, he said.<<<

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/17/politics/roger-stone-january-6-committee/index.html

As Trump has said, taking the 5th implies guilt:

>>>“So there are five people taking the Fifth Amendment, like you see on the mob, right? You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” . . . “When you have your staff taking the Fifth Amendment, taking the Fifth, so they’re not prosecuted, when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the Fifth, I think it’s disgraceful,” <<<

‘If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?’ Trump’s position on declining to testify has changed over time. (Published 2022)

Over the years, the former president has generally criticized other politicians for taking the Fifth Amendment. But on Wednesday, he invoked the right himself.

www.nytimes.com

If you think I'm saying Trump has a double standard, you would be correct.

Might say drumphy more has a single standard, drumphy comes first!

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think it's time to stop calling them "far-right Proud Boys". They're now convicted terrorists.
...

A number of countries have designated them a terrorist organization.

 

[lovinthehd]

A number of countries have designated them a terrorist organization.

Too bad ours didn't.

 

[Dude#1279435]

There is nothing there that I'm reading to link Trump to the recent trial of a few Proud Boys. There's text from proud boys that have been blocked out (and unrecoverable), but nothing showing a direct connection to Trump.

One fishy thing is it was Pence who called in additional security to the Capitol. I believe there's also a quote from Trump saying, They should have hanged him. Implying Pence. Stop the Steal very well may have meant "Stop the Steal," but nothing provable. I think it's more along the lines of these emails from Fox hosts who begged him to do something about the event. Dereliction of duty, and the general problem of not condemning the alt-right during his presidency. But still very unlikely to pin him with anything.

 

[Swerd]

There is nothing there that I'm reading to link Trump to the recent trial of a few Proud Boys. There's text from proud boys that have been blocked out (and unrecoverable), but nothing showing a direct connection to Trump.

If I were a juror for one of those trials, I'd have ZERO hesitation at finding Trump guilty. I do realize that I would most likely be rejected as a juror for such a trial. But I simply cannot accept your frequent attempts to ignore Trump's attempts to overthrow the US Government. It amounts to a whitewash.

One fishy thing is it was Pence who called in additional security to the Capitol. I believe there's also a quote from Trump saying, They should have hanged him. Implying Pence. Stop the Steal very well may have meant "Stop the Steal," but nothing provable. I think it's more along the lines of these emails from Fox hosts who begged him to do something about the event. Dereliction of duty, and the general problem of not condemning the alt-right during his presidency. But still very unlikely to pin him with anything.

Pence had to do that because Trump and his gofer in the Pentagon ignored any pleas for armed National Guard troops.

It was Trump himself who appointed a new Secretary of the Department of Defense (DOD) not long after the November 2020 election. The previous DOD Secretary had just resigned in protest over some Trump order (I can't remember what that was.) As usual, the guy Trump appointed was not at all qualified for the job.

Realizing that he literally owed his job to Trump, the new DOD Secretary made all the necessary orders preventing the DC National Guard from acting on a request from the DC Mayor, as had been done in the past. That order prevented armed National Guard troops from deploying & protecting the Capitol from the insurrection led by the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers. It had all the earmarks of being planned by someone aware of the upcoming 6 Jan coup. The new DOD Secretary may not have been aware of the full consequences of his order, but he did exactly as Trump had directed him to do.

Remember that in all 50 states, the Governor has command authority over that state's National Guard. But in Washington, DC, there is mayor but no Governor. On 6 Jan 2021, the commanding general of the DC National Guard was extremely angry & frustrated that he had to stand by for some 6 hours before he got the go ahead order. So Trump arranged for the lengthy delay before the DC National Guard could deploy.

I don't need to see a smoking gun in Trump's tiny little hands to come to the unavoidable conclusion that he, as a sitting President, is guilty of trying to overthrow the US Government by violence. In other words, sedition. As the old saying goes – If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck – It is a duck.

Trump not only looks, walks, & quacks like a duck, he has feathers, webbed feet & a bill. It's not enough to say you don't want him to run again for president (despite loosing the popular vote in 4 consecutive national elections, 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022). He attempted to overthrow the US Government. He failed on 6 Jan 2021. If he runs again in 2024, he will likely loose again. And you can bet the mortgage that he will certainly try again to overthrow the government. But with more force & violence that he could summon before. Any attempt to let Trump off by saying that he can't be proven guilty, is blind to the very real & present danger he is to our country.

 

[Dude#1279435]

If I were a juror for one of those trials, I'd have ZERO hesitation at finding Trump guilty. I do realize that I would most likely be rejected as a juror for such a trial. But I simply cannot accept your frequent attempts to ignore Trump's attempts to overthrow the US Government. It amounts to a whitewash.
Pence had to do that because Trump and his gofer in the Pentagon ignored any pleas for armed National Guard troops.

It was Trump himself who appointed a new Secretary of the Department of Defense (DOD) not long after the November 2020 election. The previous DOD Secretary had just resigned in protest over some Trump order (I can't remember what that was.) As usual, the guy Trump appointed was not at all qualified for the job.

Realizing that he literally owed his job to Trump, the new DOD Secretary made all the necessary orders preventing the DC National Guard from acting on a request from the DC Mayor, as had been done in the past. That order prevented armed National Guard troops from deploying & protecting the Capitol from the insurrection led by the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers. It had all the earmarks of being planned by someone aware of the upcoming 6 Jan coup. The new DOD Secretary may not have been aware of the full consequences of his order, but he did exactly as Trump had directed him to do.

Remember that in all 50 states, the Governor has command authority over that state's National Guard. But in Washington, DC, there is mayor but no Governor. On 6 Jan 2021, the commanding general of the DC National Guard was extremely angry & frustrated that he had to stand by for some 6 hours before he got the go ahead order. So Trump arranged for the lengthy delay before the DC National Guard could deploy.

I don't need to see a smoking gun in Trump's tiny little hands to come to the unavoidable conclusion that he, as a sitting President, is guilty of trying to overthrow the US Government by violence. In other words, sedition. As the old saying goes – If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck – It is a duck.

Trump not only looks, walks, & quacks like a duck, he has feathers, webbed feet & a bill. It's not enough to say you don't want him to run again for president (despite loosing the popular vote in 4 consecutive national elections, 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022). He attempted to overthrow the US Government. He failed on 6 Jan 2021. If he runs again in 2024, he will likely loose again. And you can bet the mortgage that he will certainly try again to overthrow the government. But with more force & violence that he could summon before. Any attempt to let Trump off by saying that he can't be proven guilty, is blind to the very real & present danger he is to our country.

The Proud Boys angle still requires some type of evidence in court. Testimony from a member, or phone records. Doesn't mean I think the guy is innocent. Means it's difficult to prove. It's why I was content with dereliction and that it happened to begin with by his followers makes him banned from office.

 

[Swerd]

The Proud Boys angle still requires some type of evidence in court. Testimony from a member, or phone records. Doesn't mean I think the guy is innocent. Means it's difficult to prove. It's why I was content with dereliction and that it happened to begin with by his followers makes him banned from office.

I don't understand what you mean when you say 'dereliction'. Please clarify.

 

[Dude#1279435]

I don't understand what you mean when you say 'dereliction'. Please clarify.

Dereliction of duty. Stood by and did nothing as it was happening. The text from the Fox hosts begging him to react. Trump doesn't seem like the type to say, Oh my gawd! This is terrible!!! While I doubt this is enough proof, it does make me have my doubts about him. These redactions in his speech....

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113461598/trump-video-edits

 

[Dude#1279435]

Also I think it was you who said about intentional and unintentional sedition. That is if I have the language right....anyhow, it happened under his watch. There was the rise of the alt-right, and he should be banned from public office ever again. Legally though I'm guessing they have to get an indictment in order for this to have bearing. I know I'm probably all over the map, but I'm trying to think legally I guess.

 

[Swerd]

Dereliction of duty. Stood by and did nothing as it was happening. The text from the Fox hosts begging him to react. Trump doesn't seem like the type to say, Oh my gawd! This is terrible!!! While I doubt this is enough proof, it does make me have my doubts about him. These redactions in his speech....

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113461598/trump-video-edits

View attachment 61826

Thanks for the explanation. Now it makes more sense.

Something in the speech Trump gave, stands out to me. He said "I immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders." That was far from the truth. As I mentioned above, he made sure that the DC National Guard was delayed. Although federal law enforcement did eventually show up, it was the Washington DC Metropolitan Police who first came to the Capitol Building to rescue the outnumbered Capitol Police. They expelled the intruders and secured the building before any federal police or troops arrived. Trump clearly was wrong, and I believe it was deliberate, not a mistake.

We may never have 'smoking gun' evidence that he planned the entire effort to overthrow the 2020 election. But I cannot believe that he was merely derelict while he stood by stunned, as if someone else had done this without his prior knowledge. He was the source of the plot from it's beginnings. He certainly didn't do it alone – there were plenty of his GOP people who gladly helped out. Only after it failed did he claim he knew nothing while others did their worst.

Fortunately, he's amateurish & ineffective at planning a coup, and he's an even worse liar.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Thanks for the explanation. Now it makes more sense.

Something in the speech Trump gave, stands out to me. He said "I immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders." That was far from the reality. As I mentioned above, he made sure that the DC National Guard was delayed. Although federal law enforcement did eventually show up, it was the Washington DC Metropolitan Police who first came to the Capitol Building to rescue the outnumbered Capitol Police. They expelled the intruders and secured the building. Trump clearly was wrong, and I believe it was deliberate, not a mistake.

We may never have 'smoking gun' evidence that he planned the entire effort to overthrow the 2020 election. But I cannot believe that he was merely derelict while he stood by stunned, while someone else acted without his prior knowledge. He was the source of the plot from it's beginnings. He certainly didn't do it alone – there were plenty of his GOP people who gladly helped out. Only after it failed did he claim he knew nothing while others did their worst.

Fortunately, he's amateurish & ineffective at planning a coup, and he's an even worse liar.

He was sympathetic to what he was seeing I imagine. All other leaders in history would denounce the whole thing and move on. Like in Charlottesville, you would denounce all of it. Trump: Their were good people of both sides.

 

[Swerd]

Derelict in his duty to uphold the US Constitution – or criminally involved in sedition – it doesn't matter which. Either way, he should never again hold office in any government. Unless he is convicted and imprisoned, I strongly believe that he will try again to overthrow the government. If the GOP succeeds with a whitewash, nothing will prevent him from trying again.