ARC appears to be in trouble..........

[Mikado463]

saw this over on the WBF, sad........

Whither Audio Research

It would appear that in the past week in the State of Minnesota District Court, County of Hennepin Fourth Judicial District, the Audio Research Company has assigned its debts and assets (sic) to the Lightwave Management Group in Minnesota. They specialize in turnaround/bankruptcy and financial...

www.whatsbestforum.com

as an owner of multiple pieces of ARC gear over the years I hate to hear of a possible liquidation. I suspect William Zane Johnson is rolling in his grave.

 

[lovinthehd]

First I thought of Audio Return Channel. Then I thought of Anthem Room Correction. Wondering how either would be in trouble....

AR wouldn't have occurred to me but then I've not seen anything of theirs I was particularly interested in either. Don't see much about this Lightwave Management Group, tho....perhaps they can "save" it?

 

[TLS Guy]

saw this over on the WBF, sad........

Whither Audio Research

It would appear that in the past week in the State of Minnesota District Court, County of Hennepin Fourth Judicial District, the Audio Research Company has assigned its debts and assets (sic) to the Lightwave Management Group in Minnesota. They specialize in turnaround/bankruptcy and financial...

www.whatsbestforum.com

as an owner of multiple pieces of ARC gear over the years I hate to hear of a possible liquidation. I suspect William Zane Johnson is rolling in his grave.

They are already in the hands of a receiver. We will know more May 17, at the first hearing.

However this looks like a dead end business. They have one or no dealers in most states. Most have one or no units available. Their one dealer in California, has only one tube power amp available for $17,000. All their gear is tube. They have products that are the epitome of Audiophoolery. They have a massive two piece phone amp, and I can't find the price.
That sort of thing in just nonsense.

I see they did have an online store, but it is closed. I suspect because either their is no inventory, or it is in the hands of the receiver.

So I suspect a buyer will be sort. Good luck with that. In the end I suspect the only thing of value is the name. This will be sold, and now we will have an avalanche of junk bearing their name and logo. That is the way it will turn out.

This may not be an orderly affair, as any creditor can force bankruptcy, and one probably will.

Sadly, I think they only have themselves to blame. It should have been obvious this was on a dead end track and the train would hit the buffers hard.

 

[mono-bloc]

I think you will find this outcome is the first of many. The costs of most of these items are way,way out of the reach of most if not all of the buying public. And the few Hi-end buyers already have there systems in place. The fact that there manufacturing is based solely on Tube amplification, which also caters for a very small clientele, does not help there situation . The economic situation today does not help, with exports which are almost non-existent, together with the dollar exchange rates,and with increased import costs,VAT, GST, and others are also added to the costs, plus high freight costs, all adding to the final costs. As someone else stated elsewereTransisters are the equal of valve [ tube ] amplification. So why would anyone bother, with dated technology, regardless of how good it may be. And pay through the nose for the choice. As for someone else buying the company, No one in there right mind would bother with a company, that comes with very little product and considerable dept. It would be much easier and cheaper to start a new company, if your really that crazy.

 

[Mikado463]

mono, it's very difficult to argue your point and in the end I suspect you may very well be right. But as a current owner of a piece of ARC gear (my line stage) I can only hope that they somehow manage to survive.

There is a good size segment of the audiophile community that still loves and embraces tubes so perhaps a re-structuring with a paired down line up of products might be in order ? As for some of their over the top offerings with respect to price, again the percentage of customers in this segment while small are rabid in their beliefs on benefits, perceived or otherwise.

 

[John Parks]

I've always lusted after Audio Research gear, always been out of my price range... Texas has five dealers listed on their website and the closest one to me, Audio Concepts in Dallas always has ARC gear front and center, usually driving Wilson Audio. I do know that they were branching out and trying internet direct sales, but only with their low(er) price offering, the I/50 (love the colors!): I/50 Integrated – Audio Research

I see their web store is not functioning, but the I/50 is available and in stock at Paragon Sight and Sound: Audio Research I/50 Integrated Amplifier | Paragon SNS
$5,500 for an ARC integrated - hmm...

 

[TLS Guy]

I've always lusted after Audio Research gear, always been out of my price range... Texas has five dealers listed on their website and the closest one to me, Audio Concepts in Dallas always has ARC gear front and center, usually driving Wilson Audio. I do know that they were branching out and trying internet direct sales, but only with their low(er) price offering, the I/50 (love the colors!): I/50 Integrated – Audio Research

I see their web store is not functioning, but the I/50 is available and in stock at Paragon Sight and Sound: Audio Research I/50 Integrated Amplifier | Paragon SNS
$5,500 for an ARC integrated - hmm...

Honestly, I have to ask why? You have to believe data. Choosing an amp should not be an Interior design contest. In my view power amps, should be out of sight and out of mind if possible.

My biggest beef with tube amps, is their high source impedance. This has to be so, as there is a coil of wire which is the secondary of the output transformer in series with the speaker.
So this tends to give credence to this notion of matching tube amps with speakers. Will this amp be a good match for these speakers? That is the question posed.

So lets take a look. I will use my designs for this illustration so no one goes looking for a match.

So here is the impedance curve of my three way Raymond Cooke memorial speakers in my family room. Now Raymond was designing speakers in the tube era, and so it was reasonable to try and get an impedance curve that would not get the worst from tube amps. So he used impedance compensation to optimize the curves for the time. So I did with those speakers.

So, if you look at that curve the lower FR regions, would be inclined to induce "warmth", and the 5 to 110 K peak "air".

Here is my great room center speaker.

Here those 100 and 200 Hz peaks of impedance would be inclined to induce "boom or boxy"
The 2K peak tend to elicit a "harsh" comment from listeners.

Now I don't want to suggest that tube amps will follow those curves to the letter, because they won't, and far from it. However there will be a subtle bias in that direction likely to be audible to listeners.

You get the idea?

I can see no good engineering reason to spend thousands on tube amps, because there isn't one.

 

[Mikado463]

Honestly, I have to ask why? You have to believe data. Choosing an amp should not be an Interior design contest. In my view power amps, should be out of sight and out of mind if possible.

My biggest beef with tube amps, is their high source impedance. This has to be so, as there is a coil of wire which is the secondary of the output transformer in series with the speaker.
So this tends to give credence to this notion of matching tube amps with speakers. Will this amp be a good match for these speakers? That is the question posed.

So lets take a look. I will use my designs for this illustration so no one goes looking for a match.

So here is the impedance curve of my three way Raymond Cooke memorial speakers in my family room. Now Raymond was designing speakers in the tube era, and so it was reasonable to try and get an impedance curve that would not get the worst from tube amps. So he used impedance compensation to optimize the curves for the time. So I did with those speakers.

So, if you look at that curve the lower FR regions, would be inclined to induce "warmth", and the 5 to 110 K peak "air".

Here is my great room center speaker.

Here those 100 and 200 Hz peaks of impedance would be inclined to induce "boom or boxy"
The 2K peak tend to elicit a "harsh" comment from listeners.

Now I don't want to suggest that tube amps will follow those curves to the letter, because they won't, and far from it. However there will be a subtle bias in that direction likely to be audible to listeners.

You get the idea?

I can see no good engineering reason to spend thousands on tube amps, because there isn't one.

Excellent post with plenty of validity but like it or not there are plenty of audiophiles(fools), hobbyists, call them what you want that enjoy the 'sound of tubes' ! Whether it be the euphoric second order harmonic distortion or the glow of the tubes themselves ! It's kinda like tone controls, where you can do what you want........

 

[cpp]

Excellent post with plenty of validity but like it or not there are plenty of audiophiles(fools), hobbyists, call them what you want that enjoy the 'sound of tubes' ! Whether it be the euphoric second order harmonic distortion or the glow of the tubes themselves ! It's kinda like tone controls, where you can do what you want........

I like to pull out my old used Quicksilver Mid Mono's and its matching line stage from time to time, why because I want to , not because someone noted they were inferior to SS, or they make a smoother note, or because they don't measure good, who freaking cares. I don't play rock concert levels and I just like em.

 

[TLS Guy]

I like to pull out my old used Quicksilver Mid Mono's and its matching line stage from time to time, why because I want to , not because someone noted they were inferior to SS, or they make a smoother note, or because they don't measure good, who freaking cares. I don't play rock concert levels and I just like em.

There is nothing wrong with a trip down memory lane. However, I don't see how it makes sense to shell out 2K for a pair of those 40 watt per channel amps. You will have to wait a long time for those to be of historic interest.

On the other hand having a 1950s Leak amplifier to demonstrate fits the boxes. Buying a new tube amp would be akin to buying a new Studebaker or equivalent. You might well like it, but it would be hard to get old car enthusiasts drooling over it.

 

[cpp]

There is nothing wrong with a trip down memory lane. However, I don't see how it makes sense to shell out 2K for a pair of those 40 watt per channel amps. You will have to wait a long time for those to be of historic interest.

On the other hand having a 1950s Leak amplifier to demonstrate fits the boxes. Buying a new tube amp would be akin to buying a new Studebaker or equivalent. You might well like it, but it would be hard to get old car enthusiasts drooling over it.

Each their own. oh PS< I paid 1325 for the pair used 15 years ago. I never buy anything new audio wise. And I do have a few pre 70's cars so that must explain everything. .

 

[Mikado463]

And I do have a few pre 70's cars so that must explain everything. .

Chris, I'm with 'ya and given the worldwide geo-political landscape right now, memory lane can be quite comforting !

 

[TLS Guy]

Each their own. oh PS< I paid 1325 for the pair used 15 years ago. I never buy anything new audio wise. And I do have a few pre 70's cars so that must explain everything. .

What pre 70's cars do you have? I have our 1988 6.2 lt. Diesel Suburban in the garage, and as you know I have a large collection of vintage audio in my system.

When we sold our lake home four years ago, I sadly hard to part with my 1948 JD model A, the 1958 JD 420 tractors and the 1948 Willys Jeep. It is just that I don't see a good reason to use yesterday's technology in current new units. I do not think that is a good way to celebrate the past. Restoration and preservation is.

 

[cpp]

What pre 70's cars do you have? I have our 1988 6.2 lt. Diesel Suburban in the garage, and as you know I have a large collection of vintage audio in my system.

When we sold our lake home four years ago, I sadly hard to part with my 1948 JD model A, the 1958 JD 420 tractors and the 1948 Willys Jeep. It is just that I don't see a good reason to use yesterday's technology in current new units. I do not think that is a good way to celebrate the past. Restoration and preservation is.

69 Z28 and a 66 vette . We ( a few of us old cars guys have fun for thge last 35 years either restoring or resto mod older cars We just bought a ratty 67 barn find big block vette up north that we are going to turn into a resto, new Morrision GT Sport chassis with Multilink IRS frame, and a GM LS3 crate motor.. Boy what a mess.

The barn find,

My grandfather had a 1954 Willys-Overland Jeep 4×4 Truck . Drove the tires off that thing. I wish I would have gotten to keep it when he passed, but the family that purchased his farm in SC wanted the Willys in the deal.

 

[Mikado463]

Chris, my first Corvette(bought back in '77) was a '66

good luck with the resto-mod project on the '67 ! keep us posted with pics along the way !!

 

[Kingnoob]

mono, it's very difficult to argue your point and in the end I suspect you may very well be right. But as a current owner of a piece of ARC gear (my line stage) I can only hope that they somehow manage to survive.

There is a good size segment of the audiophile community that still loves and embraces tubes so perhaps a re-structuring with a paired down line up of products might be in order ? As for some of their over the top offerings with respect to price, again the percentage of customers in this segment while small are rabid in their beliefs on benefits, perceived or otherwise.

I’ve still never had a tube amp. So not all audio fans have them ! Nor have I heard of the brand arc ever …

 

[-Jim-]

69 Z28 and a 66 vette . We ( a few of us old cars guys have fun for thge last 35 years either restoring or resto mod older cars We just bought a ratty 67 barn find big block vette up north that we are going to turn into a resto, new Morrision GT Sport chassis with Multilink IRS frame, and a GM LS3 crate motor.. Boy what a mess.

The barn find,
View attachment 61804

My grandfather had a 1954 Willys-Overland Jeep 4×4 Truck . Drove the tires off that thing. I wish I would have gotten to keep it when he passed, but the family that purchased his farm in SC wanted the Willys in the deal.

I'm drooling

 

[cpp]

Chris, my first Corvette(bought back in '77) was a '66

View attachment 61805

good luck with the resto-mod project on the '67 ! keep us posted with pics along the way !!

The inside is a total redo,

 

[cpp]

The inside is a total redo,
View attachment 61821

 

[fmw]

saw this over on the WBF, sad........

Whither Audio Research

It would appear that in the past week in the State of Minnesota District Court, County of Hennepin Fourth Judicial District, the Audio Research Company has assigned its debts and assets (sic) to the Lightwave Management Group in Minnesota. They specialize in turnaround/bankruptcy and financial...

www.whatsbestforum.com

as an owner of multiple pieces of ARC gear over the years I hate to hear of a possible liquidation. I suspect William Zane Johnson is rolling in his grave.

I once owned an Audio Research amp and CD player. Nice stuff but, frankly, not smart purchases. Apparently others have come to the same conclusion.