Arcam AVR 850

[Hattrick17]

I have an Arcam AVR 850 works great but was curious if it is time to consider upgrading? I don't have an 8K capable TV or gaming consoles but am planning on upgrading the TV in a couple of years. Thoughts?

 

[lovinthehd]

Really depends on the feature set you want/need. Why change if it works great for your current purposes? What is the upgrade that will affect your choice particularly?

 

[Hattrick17]

Really depends on the feature set you want/need. Why change if it works great for your current purposes? What is the upgrade that will affect your choice particularly?

Well good question. The AVR rabbit hole for me is how well the AVR is for music listening. I am happy with the AVR 850 and use it frequently for both analog and digital reproduction and have been very happy with it. My question for the new gear out there is do they reproduce music better than what I already own? As per movies and such I am satisfied with the AVR 850. Well maybe Auro 3D would be cool to have. I have height channels but not in the ceiling. Also, immersive multi-channel music listening. I currently utilize the 5-channel stereo quite a bit for music listening.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well good question. The AVR rabbit hole for me is how well the AVR is for music listening. I am happy with the AVR 850 and use it frequently for both analog and digital reproduction and have been very happy with it. My question for the new gear out there is do they reproduce music better than what I already own? As per movies and such I am satisfied with the AVR 850. Well maybe Auro 3D would be cool to have. I have height channels but not in the ceiling. Also, immersive multi-channel music listening. I currently utilize the 5-channel stereo quite a bit for music listening.

DACs are a very mature technology, so unless there's another angle i can't think of in your example, seems you're just looking in a direction that has no merit....but not particularly odd in the pursuit of audiophoolery

 

[Hattrick17]

DACs are a very mature technology, so unless there's another angle i can't think of in your example, seems you're just looking in a direction that has no merit....but not particularly odd in the pursuit of audiophoolery

Good points. I think there is more of a curiosity than anything for me. I probably will not consider upgrading until I get a new 4k/8K TV. You are right. Some will indicate the new DACS are better thus one would "have better reproduction". DACs are a expensive rabbit hole to pursue. When I get the new TV I may dabble in demo purchases to see if there is an "Oh Wow" experience from my current AVR. I doubt it except for maybe a few additional DSP choices as well HDMI 2.2. Thanks for the input. I just saved thousands! LOL

 

[lovinthehd]

Good points. I think there is more of a curiosity than anything for me. I probably will not consider upgrading until I get a new 4k/8K TV. You are right. Some will indicate the new DACS are better thus one would "have better reproduction". DACs are a expensive rabbit hole to pursue. When I get the new TV I may dabble in demo purchases to see if there is an "Oh Wow" experience from my current AVR. I doubt it except for maybe a few additional DSP choices as well HDMI 2.2. Thanks for the input. I just saved thousands! LOL

You might look at the various dac reviews and threads at audiosciencereview.com. Then again anything in audio has seen such huge improvements every year for the last 50 years, from a variety of electronic components, right? LOL.

 

[Kleinst]

I think the same when I look at the new Sony ES models compared to the Sony ES i have. I have Atmos and all the channels I need on that unit and it feeds an Monolith AMP anyways. I'm not sure the processing would be that different.

I have a Denon 4200 in a bedroom unit that also has all the formats that I could use.

So again, I can't know if there would be any improvement but it doesn't seem reasonable to upgrade when it's likley the same technology

I'd guess the same is true with your Arcam. You could always buy from Crutchfield and if you love the new one keep it. if it's NO better return it.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think the same when I look at the new Sony ES models compared to the Sony ES i have. I have Atmos and all the channels I need on that unit and it feeds an Monolith AMP anyways. I'm not sure the processing would be that different.

I have a Denon 4200 in a bedroom unit that also has all the formats that I could use.

So again, I can't know if there would be any improvement but it doesn't seem reasonable to upgrade when it's likley the same technology

I'd guess the same is true with your Arcam. You could always buy from Crutchfield and if you love the new one keep it. if it's NO better return it.

Largest differences are the feature set....codec handling/video options. DAC not so much.

 

[Kleinst]

Largest differences are the feature set....codec handling/video options. DAC not so much.

Great point, 4K, HDR, Dolbyvision, etc I have for example on those. Don't see when I'll have 8k. Same with the Arcam 850 it seems.

So I'd say how well do you think your room is dialed in presently? If it's pristine, then you might be weary of changing anything.

 

[isolar8001]

Good points. I think there is more of a curiosity than anything for me. I probably will not consider upgrading until I get a new 4k/8K TV. You are right. Some will indicate the new DACS are better thus one would "have better reproduction". DACs are a expensive rabbit hole to pursue. When I get the new TV I may dabble in demo purchases to see if there is an "Oh Wow" experience from my current AVR. I doubt it except for maybe a few additional DSP choices as well HDMI 2.2. Thanks for the input. I just saved thousands! LOL

Sounds to me like you are more than good to go as you are.
8K tvs probably are dead in the water with the new Euro restrictions on power usage....and they haven't even perfected 4K yet with most sets having horrible processing.
Don't let Amir's crucifiction of your Arcam fester in your mind. (he burnt my AVR at the stake)
Even buying a new DAC won't yield any significant improvements. You could always try a new DAC though, but that's a whole 'nother rabbit hole.
HDMI 2.1 is still floundering, you don't need it....if you get a PS5 or XBox that needs it, just connect those to your tv set.

 

[Hattrick17]

I think the same when I look at the new Sony ES models compared to the Sony ES i have. I have Atmos and all the channels I need on that unit and it feeds an Monolith AMP anyways. I'm not sure the processing would be that different.

I have a Denon 4200 in a bedroom unit that also has all the formats that I could use.

So again, I can't know if there would be any improvement but it doesn't seem reasonable to upgrade when it's likley the same technology

I'd guess the same is true with your Arcam. You could always buy from Crutchfield and if you love the new one keep it. if it's NO better return it.

I would use Best Buy being local and no shipping needed. They have a 30 day return policy on AVR's. In a perfect world there would be a nice quiet demo room at a vendor provider which one can listen and compare a multitude of AVR's being Marantz, Sony, Anthem, and Arcam. I lean towards Arcam being their sonic audio for music with their Class G amps are great. However all have fantastic technology. I am not really worried about a better HT movie experience from anyone AVR being my room is a Great Room not a HT room which is 9.2 including a front and rear height channels.

 

[Hattrick17]

Great point, 4K, HDR, Dolbyvision, etc I have for example on those. Don't see when I'll have 8k. Same with the Arcam 850 it seems.

So I'd say how well do you think your room is dialed in presently? If it's pristine, then you might be weary of changing anything.

The room is a great room flowing into a kitchen. Lots of ceiling heigh variances from vault to flat in the kitchen from 12' high to 8' high plus the room is not a perfect rectangle. I have removed most of the reverberation in the room with furniture, drapes and wall coverings per quilts and such. I then used the latest version of Dirac Live with a Umic and feel I nailed the room correction software as well. So to your point I think the room is fine. LOL

 

[Hattrick17]

Sounds to me like you are more than good to go as you are.
8K tvs probably are dead in the water with the new Euro restrictions on power usage....and they haven't even perfected 4K yet with most sets having horrible processing.
Don't let Amir's crucifiction of your Arcam fester in your mind. (he burnt my AVR at the stake)
Even buying a new DAC won't yield any significant improvements. You could always try a new DAC though, but that's a whole 'nother rabbit hole.
HDMI 2.1 is still floundering, you don't need it....if you get a PS5 or XBox that needs it, just connect those to your tv set.

I have thought of maybe buying a new stand alone DAC. Utilizing my digital output of my Oppo 203 to the Digital input of the DAC then out of the DAC into one of the Analog inputs of my AVR850 to see if the outboard DAC sounds better than the internal DAC of the AVR 850? If anyone has tried this with an AVR I would love to read your findings.

 

[PENG]

I have thought of maybe buying a new DAC connected to my Oppo 203 digital into one of the Analog inputs to see if the CD's sound better? It would be cool to know if anyone has tried this and their findings.

I had used external dac with the analog inputs of my Denon/Marantz many times. To me it sounded better, even the cheap <$300 DACs, but that's because I know they have much better specs and measurements than the AVRs/AVPs internal DACs. That is, I am biased. Did not compare in DBT or even SBT.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have thought of maybe buying a new stand alone DAC. Utilizing my digital output of my Oppo 203 to the Digital input of the DAC then out of the DAC into one of the Analog inputs of my AVR850 to see if the outboard DAC sounds better than the internal DAC of the AVR 850? If anyone has tried this with an AVR I would love to read your findings.

Did you use the Oppo's dacs and connect to analog inputs of your avr? They're supposed to be quite good compared to avr dac sections. I've done that, found no difference but then I've never found a difference due just to the dac involved over a wide variety of disc players with built in dacs (or even some streamers). I have an outboard stand alone dac and when I put that in place with a 2ch system, again found no difference, seemed a waste of time to try it on my other gear. Likely all you'll hear are differences in gain until you level match and do unsighted comparisons. DACs are a mature tech, and afaik no one has been able to distinguish them particularly as long as sufficient (aside from anecdotal/creative writing stories).

 

[Hattrick17]

Did you use the Oppo's dacs and connect to analog inputs of your avr? They're supposed to be quite good compared to avr dac sections. I've done that, found no difference but then I've never found a difference due just to the dac involved over a wide variety of disc players with built in DAC (or even some streamers). I have an outboard standalone DAC and when I put that in place with a 2ch system, again found no difference, seemed a waste of time to try it on my other gear. Likely all you'll hear are differences in gain until you level match and do unsighted comparisons. DACs are a mature tech, and afaik no one has been able to distinguish them particularly as long as sufficient (aside from anecdotal/creative writing stories).

No, I never used the Oppo 203 DAC for either movies or digital music. I just used the HDMI Out of the Oppo 203 into the HDMI input of the AVR 850. I was told the Arcam DACS were better, but I will give your question a try and compare. Like you said, most likely what one will hear is volume differences. I did reach out to a YouTube reviewer regarding the same question, and he said don't waste my time or money. Arcam makes excellent sounding equipment.

 

[isolar8001]

No, I never used the Oppo 203 DAC for either movies or digital music. I just used the HDMI Out of the Oppo 203 into the HDMI input of the AVR 850. I was told the Arcam DACS were better, but I will give your question a try and compare. Like you said, most likely what one will hear is volume differences. I did reach out to a YouTube reviewer regarding the same question, and he said don't waste my time or money. Arcam makes excellent sounding equipment.

It does seem like the money grubbing floodgates really opened with DAC's.
Put a 4 dollar chip in an enclosure with the circuitry needed to access it (another 5 bucks)
A small case with connectors (5 bucks) and sell the thing for 500 dollars.
Probably cost more to market and advertise those things than to make them.

 

[PENG]

No, I never used the Oppo 203 DAC for either movies or digital music. I just used the HDMI Out of the Oppo 203 into the HDMI input of the AVR 850. I was told the Arcam DACS were better, but I will give your question a try and compare. Like you said, most likely what one will hear is volume differences. I did reach out to a YouTube reviewer regarding the same question, and he said don't waste my time or money. Arcam makes excellent sounding equipment.

Fortunately, you don't have to listen to internet hearsay, because Arcam typically tell you which DAC IC they used in their AVRs. In this case, whoever told you the Arcam DACS were better, might not have the facts.

Arcam - AVR850(Discontinued) - AV Receiver

PRODUCT DETAILS

• Dolby Atmos & DTS:X 7.1.4 decoding
• 4K (UHD) HDMI2.0a with HDCP2.2
• 7 HDMI inputs, 3 HDMI outputs, ARC compatible
• Dirac Live ® for Arcam room correction
• Spotify ® Connect enabled
• Cirrus CS42528 audiophile DAC
• Class G power amplification
• Ethernet, RS232 and IR control
• Free MusicLife iOS UPnP and control app

CS42528 pdf, CS42528 Description, CS42528 Datasheet, CS42528 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

The Oppo 203 uses the AK4458VN:
OPPO Digital - Knowledge Base

Differences Between the UDP-203 and UDP-205
Features	UDP-203	UDP-205
7.1-Channel Analog Outputs	Yes (AKM AK4458VN DAC)	Yes (ESS ES9038PRO DAC)

If you compare the specs of the Arcam and Oppo's DAC IC:

Arcam's: 114 dB DR, 100 dB SINAD
Oppo's: 115 dB DR, 110 dB SINAD

I would say based on the specs of the DAC chips, Oppo won by miles (10 dB lower in THD+N).

 

[lovinthehd]

No, I never used the Oppo 203 DAC for either movies or digital music. I just used the HDMI Out of the Oppo 203 into the HDMI input of the AVR 850. I was told the Arcam DACS were better, but I will give your question a try and compare. Like you said, most likely what one will hear is volume differences. I did reach out to a YouTube reviewer regarding the same question, and he said don't waste my time or money. Arcam makes excellent sounding equipment.

While not as touted as the 205 dacs, they are quite sufficient in the 203 and many avrs, too. I've never used an Arcam but likely wouldn't sound any better to me than my Denons or Onkyo or maybe even my old cheap Sony. The whole package/feature set is what might make a difference, not a particular chip used or looking for a particular "sound", especially if based on most youtubers' "reviews" (unless they include bench tests I don't even bother).

 

[Hattrick17]

Fortunately, you don't have to listen to internet hearsay, because Arcam typically tell you which DAC IC they used in their AVRs. In this case, whoever told you the Arcam DACS were better, might not have the facts.

Arcam - AVR850(Discontinued) - AV Receiver

PRODUCT DETAILS

• Dolby Atmos & DTS:X 7.1.4 decoding
• 4K (UHD) HDMI2.0a with HDCP2.2
• 7 HDMI inputs, 3 HDMI outputs, ARC compatible
• Dirac Live ® for Arcam room correction
• Spotify ® Connect enabled
• Cirrus CS42528 audiophile DAC
• Class G power amplification
• Ethernet, RS232 and IR control
• Free MusicLife iOS UPnP and control app

CS42528 pdf, CS42528 Description, CS42528 Datasheet, CS42528 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

The Oppo 203 uses the AK4458VN:
OPPO Digital - Knowledge Base

Differences Between the UDP-203 and UDP-205
Features	UDP-203	UDP-205
7.1-Channel Analog Outputs	Yes (AKM AK4458VN DAC)	Yes (ESS ES9038PRO DAC)

If you compare the specs of the Arcam and Oppo's DAC IC:

Arcam's: 114 dB DR, 100 dB SINAD
Oppo's: 115 dB DR, 110 dB SINAD

I would say based on the specs of the DAC chips, Oppo won by miles (10 dB lower in THD+N).

I wasn't aware of this I should have dove into the specs of the Oppo. I will make some changes per coming out of the Oppo for CD. As per the movie aspect I will continue to use the HDMI out of the Oppo being there isn't 7 channels of audio in my or any AVR.