Yamaha RX-A3080 to Anthem AVM 90 ?

[TLEW]

Hi all.
I'm considering going to separates. Currently have the Yamaha connected to 3 separate amps to cover 7.2.4 system.
Does anyone have any input on what to expect from this? Better overall sound both in 2-channel and multi-channel?
Also trying to figure out what DAC is in this unit now? Early generation before the AV parts fire may be the AKM AK4499EQ but I'm seeing now that the similar DAC thats in the Yamaha maybe in this unit now, 32-Bit/768kHz Sabre ESS DAC. Thanks

 

[lovinthehd]

In a way you already have separates. I'd only expect extra capabilities the external amps may provide (or maybe in the newest pre-pros the feature set). Pre-pros haven't been shown to offer any particular advantage over good avrs even with specs/testing. Why would the particular dac matter? Why not consider the Yamaha pre-pro instead of Anthem? You looking for the REQ that Anthem employs?

 

[TLEW]

I've always had AVRs back in the day Pioneer to Onkyo to now Yamaha. I always had separates in car audio and it was a huge difference in the quality of sound. I'm reading the same for home theater. The better quality DACs should provide better sound. ARCG is better than YPAO from what I've read as well. Grant it the AVM90 is big money, maybe the AVM70 is more in budget but I'm reading there is a very noticeable difference in sound quality with the AVM 90. I'm have no current day use for 8k but only for the future should that ever take off. What Yamaha pre-pro are you referring too?

 

[lovinthehd]

I might go with you that ARC could be better than YPAO . Then there's once you speak Yamaha can you change?

I seriously doubt there's any sq difference among a well built and spec'd avr or pre-pro these days, especially within a brand even if they had some sort of "signature" outside of dsp oriented differences. Not my experience with a few at least. I did and do have 2ch separates, and generally use my avrs instead, altho I do have one room where I'm least likely to use audio setup with separates that way.

I had separates in car audio a long time ago but my Kenwood head unit is much better and more capable of a few things that old system wasn't....

 

[TLEW]

Don't get me wrong I think the 3080 is a great AVR. I've learned how to make YPAO better in conjunction with REW and SVS sub EQ adjustments but ARCG now has better bass management from what I've read. I've also read separating the low end signals from the high end signals can produce a much cleaner sound. Grant it AVRs are much better today with their shielding but true separate pre-pros should give a cleaner sound. My hearing is not what it once was but might be worth a shot at testing it out. Just trying to find anyone who might have made the switch.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't get me wrong I think the 3080 is a great AVR. I've learned how to make YPAO better in conjunction with REW and SVS sub EQ adjustments but ARCG now has better bass management from what I've read. I've also read separating the low end signals from the high end signals can produce a much cleaner sound. Grant it AVRs are much better today with their shielding but true separate pre-pros should give a cleaner sound. My hearing is not what it once was but might be worth a shot at testing it out. Just trying to find anyone who might have made the switch.

Might check out measurements of some of the pre-pros and compare to avrs. Should is more marketing If you can hear the difference in a proper comparison, go for it, but that's hard to arrange otoh.

 

[PENG]

Hi all.
I'm considering going to separates. Currently have the Yamaha connected to 3 separate amps to cover 7.2.4 system.
Does anyone have any input on what to expect from this? Better overall sound both in 2-channel and multi-channel?
Also trying to figure out what DAC is in this unit now? Early generation before the AV parts fire may be the AKM AK4499EQ but I'm seeing now that the similar DAC thats in the Yamaha maybe in this unit now, 32-Bit/768kHz Sabre ESS DAC. Thanks

Whether one sounds better to the other or not I can't say, because it depends on so many factors. In theory if the distortions are below the threshold of audibility, frequency responses are less than +/- 0.5 dB full range, there will most likely be no audible difference, all else being equal. That's for preamp/dacs and power amps, for DSP, there could be little to very audible difference between units that have different DSP chips and implementation, but then it is still tough to say if others reported brand A better than B, will you or won't you hear similar kind of difference. Like food, people have different taste/preference.

Now the specifics, the Yamaha RX-A3080, as you probably know, have the ES9026Pro for the main 7 channels, and the ES9007 (same as the 9006 the best I can tell, as the ES9006 seems just a different number for Yamaha, may be a few others, cannot find the datasheet anywhere for the 9007.

The AVM90 has the ES9038Pro, and as far as I know, you probably cannot find another (may be 1 or 2 that I missed, not aware of, perhaps Arcam's top model?) AVP that uses such an expensive real reference class DAC chip.

The AVM70 uses the ES9038Q2M, that is virtually as good as the ES9038Pro. Both chips have specs well above that of the 3080's ES9026Pro, but the difference may not be audible.

Back on the subjective side, you can read a lot on forums and it is common to find that owners tend to say nice things about their expensive gear vs the cheaper ones. So yes, you will read a lot of Anthem users reporting much better sound quality from the AVM90 over the AVM70, many would even claim "night and day", huge improvements going from the 70 to the 90.

I spent some time listening to the 90 in the dealer's demo room and I could not support such claims at all. Yes the AVM90 sounded great playing the dealer's demo movie tracks, but to me, there is no night and day difference even compared to my AVR-X4400H based on auditory memory. There is no way, and I am certain about it that someone without real golden years can identify the 90 from the 70 if in a blind comparison listening test. You should be able ask for a AB demo comparison between the two as most dealers likely have both setup.

If I heard any easy to tell difference offered by the AVM90 I would have bought it, but I settled for the 70 and am very happy about it. I like AVPs/AVRs that uses the better DAC ICs, regardless whether I could hear a better difference or not. Anthem has that edge, in terms of using better DAC, and likely the important volume control ICs, and that makes me feel good about theirs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It does NOT matter if we can't hear any differences among the DAC - Anthem is pretty smart to put the more expensive DAC in their components.

If I were a manufacturer, I'd put the most expensive DAC in all my AVR and AVP because that is what sells.

Also put Dirac in all the AVR and AVP because that is also what sells.

 

[TLEW]

Whether one sounds better to the other or not I can't say, because it depends on so many factors. In theory if the distortions are below the threshold of audibility, frequency responses are less than +/- 0.5 dB full range, there will most likely be no audible difference, all else being equal. That's for preamp/dacs and power amps, for DSP, there could be little to very audible difference between units that have different DSP chips and implementation, but then it is still tough to say if others reported brand A better than B, will you or won't you hear similar kind of difference. Like food, people have different taste/preference.

Now the specifics, the Yamaha RX-A3080, as you probably know, have the ES9026Pro for the main 7 channels, and the ES9007 (same as the 9006 the best I can tell, as the ES9006 seems just a different number for Yamaha, may be a few others, cannot find the datasheet anywhere for the 9007.

The AVM90 has the ES9038Pro, and as far as I know, you probably cannot find another (may be 1 or 2 that I missed, not aware of, perhaps Arcam's top model?) AVP that uses such an expensive real reference class DAC chip.

The AVM70 uses the ES9038Q2M, that is virtually as good as the ES9038Pro. Both chips have specs well above that of the 3080's ES9026Pro, but the difference may not be audible.

Back on the subjective side, you can read a lot on forums and it is common to find that owners tend to say nice things about their expensive gear vs the cheaper ones. So yes, you will read a lot of Anthem users reporting much better sound quality from the AVM90 over the AVM70, many would even claim "night and day", huge improvements going from the 70 to the 90.

I spent some time listening to the 90 in the dealer's demo room and I could not support such claims at all. Yes the AVM90 sounded great playing the dealer's demo movie tracks, but to me, there is no night and day difference even compared to my AVR-X4400H based on auditory memory. There is no way, and I am certain about it that someone without real golden years can identify the 90 from the 70 if in a blind comparison listening test. You should be able ask for a AB demo comparison between the two as most dealers likely have both setup.

If I heard any easy to tell difference offered by the AVM90 I would have bought it, but I settled for the 70 and am very happy about it. I like AVPs/AVRs that uses the better DAC ICs, regardless whether I could hear a better difference or not. Anthem has that edge, in terms of using better DAC, and likely the important volume control ICs, and that makes me feel good about theirs.

Peng,
Would you think that the AVM70 would sound much better than the Yamaha?
I've looked but AVM70 doesn't appear to support DLNA, as I have a NAS which has all my music on it. I access that with no issues on the AVR. I also have Roon Core installed on it, so when and if Anthem supports that as in "Roon Ready" I would be able to stream hi-res music files. Is there support for DLNA on the AVM70?
Also I only have 2 SVS Ultra-16 subs and seems more than enough in my space so I wouldn't really need the AVM90 unless I expanded someday, unlikely.

 

[PENG]

Peng,
Would you think that the AVM70 would sound much better than the Yamaha?
I've looked but AVM70 doesn't appear to support DLNA, as I have a NAS which has all my music on it. I access that with no issues on the AVR. I also have Roon Core installed on it, so when and if Anthem supports that as in "Roon Ready" I would be able to stream hi-res music files. Is there support for DLNA on the AVM70?
Also I only have 2 SVS Ultra-16 subs and seems more than enough in my space so I wouldn't really need the AVM90 unless I expanded someday, unlikely.

Without doing an AB comparison, I cannot answer your question, and you are asking the wrong person lol... I do not believe in subjective measurements at all, the so call trust your ears kind of talks are silly because in this day and age, just about everything that matters are measurable so why trust our ears knowing that we are humans who are prone to Placebo effects and other form of bias. I always go by specifications that are verifiable by bench test results. I think here on Audioholics, I am not alone on this, so I think you will likely get more subjective opinions on other forums such as the AVForum or AVSForum.

That being said, I am very pleased with the AVM70's sound quality, and I don't think I can ask for more. To me it is as good as anything I have heard before, including the separates I own/owned and some very expensive separates I heard in dealer's demo rooms. I still cannot say whether it sounds better than the Denon and Marantz units that I had before in level matched AB comparison listening tests, let alone Yamaha's recent models that I have never auditioned. Comparison based on auditory memory is very unreliable. I know this is no help to you, but I have to tell it the way it is.

Regarding DLNA, it is true that Anthem AVRs/AVPs and AV preamp/processors don't support it. As to Roon, as you know their earlier marketing info did say it's coming but I have seen no sign of it so far. They also claimed DTS:X Pro was coming, but I doubt it will ever come.

Anthem seems to have a weird way of doing things, but that may be because I have been using D+M's products for so many years, so I find it hard to let go many of the nice informative and convenient features not found on Anthem's. They do have Chromecast build in, but that's not a substitute for DLNA.

If you don't need 4 subs, and don't believe the forum talks about the 90's far superior sound quality, then save yourself US$4,100, now that the AVM70 is on sale for US$3,399. That is a good deal, imo much better than the Marantz Cinema 50 AVR's ridiculous price tag of US$2,500 (€ 1,499) in Europe.

If I believe in more money can buy better sound quality beyond the upper midrange AVRs/AVPs, I would have gone with the Marantz AV10 for sure, a better value than the US$7,500 AVM90 (in my opinion), even for US$7,000 or US$7,800 including the DLBC license.

 

[TLEW]

Without doing an AB comparison, I cannot answer your question, and you are asking the wrong person lol... I do not believe in subjective measurements at all, the so call trust your ears kind of talks are silly because in this day and age, just about everything that matters are measurable so why trust our ears knowing that we are humans who are prone to Placebo effects and other form of bias. I always go by specifications that are verifiable by bench test results. I think here on Audioholics, I am not alone on this, so I think you will likely get more subjective opinions on other forums such as the AVForum or AVSForum.

That being said, I am very pleased with the AVM70's sound quality, and I don't think I can ask for more. To me it is as good as anything I have heard before, including the separates I own/owned and some very expensive separates I heard in dealer's demo rooms. I still cannot say whether it sounds better than the Denon and Marantz units that I had before in level matched AB comparison listening tests, let alone Yamaha's recent models that I have never auditioned. Comparison based on auditory memory is very unreliable. I know this is no help to you, but I have to tell it the way it is.

Regarding DLNA, it is true that Anthem AVRs/AVPs and AV preamp/processors don't support it. As to Roon, as you know their earlier marketing info did say it's coming but I have seen no sign of it so far. They also claimed DTS:X Pro was coming, but I doubt it will ever come.

Anthem seems to have a weird way of doing things, but that may be because I have been using D+M's products for so many years, so I find it hard to let go many of the nice informative and convenient features not found on Anthem's. They do have Chromecast build in, but that's not a substitute for DLNA.

If you don't need 4 subs, and don't believe the forum talks about the 90's far superior sound quality, then save yourself US$4,100, now that the AVM70 is on sale for US$3,399. That is a good deal, imo much better than the Marantz Cinema 50 AVR's ridiculous price tag of US$2,500 (€ 1,499) in Europe.

If I believe in more money can buy better sound quality beyond the upper midrange AVRs/AVPs, I would have gone with the Marantz AV10 for sure, a better value than the US$7,500 AVM90 (in my opinion), even for US$7,000 or US$7,800 including the DLBC license.

I was talking with a dealer and they were pushing the AVM90 or the Marantz AV10, imagine that 2 of the most expensive ones...lol

 

[PENG]

I was talking with OvertureAV and they were pushing the AVM90 or the Marantz AV10, imagine that 2 of the most expensive ones...lol

They are doing their job!
My dealer want me to try their cheapest power cord, only $800. Full refund if I can't hear a difference. Sounds no risk, but I declined, and thanked them for the offer.

 

[TLEW]

They are doing their job!@
My dealer want me to try their cheapest power cord, only $800. Full refund if I can't hear a difference. Sounds no risk, but I declined, and thanked them for the offer.

They did offer trade in on my Yamaha in which I could pickup an AVM 90 for about $6400. I guess that's not to bad.

 

[lovinthehd]

@TLEW curious, what are your speakers?

 

[TLEW]

@TLEW curious, what are your speakers?

Kef R series with R11 mains

 

[lovinthehd]

Kef R series with R11 mains

Just checking as usually if you want to upgrade audio you do speakers first. Subs?

 

[TLEW]

Just checking as usually if you want to upgrade audio you do speakers first. Subs?

2 Svs ultra-16

 

[Cos]

They did offer trade in on my Yamaha in which I could pickup an AVM 90 for about $6400. I guess that's not to bad.

If my delae

They are doing their job!@
My dealer want me to try their cheapest power cord, only $800. Full refund if I can't hear a difference. Sounds no risk, but I declined, and thanked them for the offer.

If my dealer offered me that option, I would start looking at other dealers LOL. In all seriousness, the dealer I got my Persona C Center from told me a story where he did an AB Test on speaker cables for a client who was determined to spend for high end Fraudioquest cables. Only he never switched the cables. The buyer swore he could hear a difference.

I saw all the posts on AVSfourm of people upgrading to the AVM90 from the 70, While the 4 sub outs is nice, I would have little reason to switch at this point as I am completely content with my 70.

 

[TLEW]

If my delae


If my dealer offered me that option, I would start looking at other dealers LOL. In all seriousness, the dealer I got my Persona C Center from told me a story where he did an AB Test on speaker cables for a client who was determined to spend for high end Fraudioquest cables. Only he never switched the cables. The buyer swore he could hear a difference.

I saw all the posts on AVSfourm of people upgrading to the AVM90 from the 70, While the 4 sub outs is nice, I would have little reason to switch at this point as I am completely content with my 70.

How do you stream local music to the 70?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Kef R series with R11 mains

One of my friends own the R11 towers and powers them with just his Yamaha RX-A4A. He absolutely loves it.

I love my Yamaha RX-A3080.